When Exactly Did Disco Die and When Was the Beginning of the End?

[garrybcoston]

Hey y'all; Garry here. I want to thank all of you, especially the Senior Staff and Owners of this group for a superb forum. I am really enjoying myself.

I am opening this thread because there is much debate on when disco died, or even when disco began to die, that is, the beginning of the end. In my opinion disco was rolling right along, snowballing all other genres in the music business before some people in Chicago started making some noise, and along with this perpetuated one of the most negative marketing ploys, and campaigns against an entity that I've ever seen or can ever remember. Check out these photos; just click on the URL's:

http://www.discodemolition.com/assets/Comiskey_11.jpg
http://whitesoxinteractive.com/image...olitionBIG.jpg
http://www.jahsonic.com/DiscoSucks.jpg

Here is an article from that time regarding the rally and the death knell for disco:

THE DISCO DEMOLITION: THE DAY THAT DISCO DIED
“One of the Top Ten Most Shocking Moments in Baseball History” Turns 25
On July 12, 1979, while music was blaring at the legendary Studio 54 in New York City and “Saturday Night Fever” records were being played in homes across the country, another movement was taking place; thousands of people gathered on the South Side of Chicago chanting “Disco Sucks.” The night was orchestrated by then 24-year-old DJ Steve Dahl, and became known forever after as the Disco Demolition.

What began as an effort to sell seats at a White Sox/Detroit Tigers double-header turned into a mass anti-disco movement that would later be credited as the official “day that disco died.” Fans were encouraged to show up with an admission of $0.98 and a disco record that would be blown up at center field between the games; chaos ensued when an estimated 90,000 baseball fans and listeners crammed the ballpark, the surrounding neighborhood streets and the Dan Ryan expressway, creating traffic jams for miles.
Leading the fans in a “Disco Sucks” chant, Dahl headed out to center field in military regalia to blow up the thousands of disco records that had been brought to the ball park for the rally. What he didn’t anticipate was that tens of thousands of eager fans would storm the field. Announcer Harry Caray tried to calm the crowd by leading the park in the singing of “Take Me Out to the Ball Game,” but order could not be restored, and the White Sox were forced to forfeit the next game. Because American League games are virtually never forfeited or cancelled ESPN dubbed Disco Demolition as “One of the Top Ten Most Shocking Moments in Baseball History.”

Dahl admits that the cultural phenomenon that sparked the end of the disco era began simply as his response to losing a job at a radio station that had turned to an all-disco format. Even though disco music had become the unofficial soundtrack of the 1970s, his “disco sucks” mantra struck a nerve because so many Midwesterners simply didn’t ‘get it.’
“The average guy in Chicago didn’t have the right clothes, couldn’t get into the right clubs, and thought he’d never get laid again because of disco,” says Dahl.

The Disco Demolition and Steve Dahl became national news the next morning, and the event’s legacy survives to this day – disco bands including ABBA and K.C. and the Sunshine Band agree that the event was the beginning of the end for disco.
------------------------------------------------------------------------GARRY SEZ: In my opinion the demolition in chicago was truly the beginning of the end. When I saw that on TV I knew what was coming next. There were just too many people that even I knew at the time that out right hated disco, or if they didn't hate it were disgusted with it. The following weeks after the demolition many stations changed format. The radio station where I lived, that played disco music 24-7, changed to a hard rock format within two months. Later came the extremely negative news reports, articles, magazine articles, and everything else "bad mouthing" disco. Then around early 1980, the discos were almost closed or had changed their theme, no disco radio stations were left, the fashion trend changed, and the word disco was removed from billboard's vocabulary and changed to "dance." When that happened, that is, billboard removing the word disco from this music genre, I knew for sure it was over.

So what do you think? When do you think the beginning of the end came for disco? When do you think disco died? Let's get this thread fired up and let us know your thoughts!

Garry

[garrybcoston]

Yes, believe it or not, it all started with Mr. Steve Dahl, and others. Guess what forumers? Mr. Dahl, who was one of the architects, if not THE architect behind disco's demise, is still on the air in Chicago; do you believe it?

Access his site at: http://www.dahl.com/

Or join his forum at that site at: http://www.dahl.com/forum/ubbthreads.php

In a polite, respectful way, and I know this has been boiling in most of you, and myself for a lot of years now, tell Mr. Dahl what you think of how he killed and stabbed a beautiful music genre, way of life, and recreation for most of us during that time period that we enjoyed. We didn't perpetuate a rock and roll demolition night did we? What Mr. Dahl did was wrong.

Anyway, thought I'd share this with you all.

Keep dancin y'all!

Garry:p

[needlefingers]

If I remember correctly, and if someone can verify it, the last song to hit #1 on the Billboard Disco Charts in December of 1979 was Enough Is Enough by Donna Summer and Barbara Streisand.

A couple of months later Funkytown was all the sensation.

I always considered this to be a crossover point, and just for my purposes.

And don't get me wrong, there was still a lot more to come out and play in the clubs: like Lime, Patrick Cowley, more Sylvester, Trans-X and Tapps. But this was moving into Hi-NRG.

Blondie and Modern Romance were bringing white rap in. John Robbie, Arthur Baker and Soul Sonic Force were bringing in electro funk. And the B-52's, Depeche Mode and Yazz were the alternative rock that was now coming into the clubs. Madonna was right around the corner.

Again, this is just my thoughts, but Enough Is Enough was the begining of the end. And kind of an appropriate title if you ask me.

[garrybcoston]

If I remember correctly, and if someone can verify it, the last song to hit #1 on the Billboard Disco Charts in December of 1979 was Enough Is Enough by Donna Summer and Barbara Streisand.

A couple of months later Funkytown was all the sensation.

I always considered this to be a crossover point, and just for my purposes.

And don't get me wrong, there was still a lot more to come out and play in the clubs: like Lime, Patrick Cowley, more Sylvester, Trans-X and Tapps. But this was moving into Hi-NRG.

Blondie and Modern Romance were bringing white rap in. John Robbie, Arthur Baker and Soul Sonic Force were bringing in electro funk. And the B-52's, Depeche Mode and Yazz were the alternative rock that was now coming into the clubs. Madonna was right around the corner.

Again, this is just my thoughts, but Enough Is Enough was the begining of the end. And kind of an appropriate title if you ask me.

I think you're right "needlefingers," these songs were transitory into another music realm, a changing of the guard if you will, and disco's last gasp. But we all hoped that most of these songs would heal disco and at least put it back in it proper place, but that never happened. Good post "needlefingers."

Garry:icon_neutral:

[remicks]

*****

I like your spirit a lot GBC (welcome ! ) ... what took you so long to come to discomusic.com ?:icon_exclaim:


...... I agree that Steve Dahl is an appropriate symbolic hangman for that entire anti-disco /anti-gay crowd .... but to give him too much credence I think overstates it. No doubt there were those in wait that he resonated with.

There was a conglomeration of things that came together around '79 -'80 that " killed " disco .....

Check out Quinny's thread on that Chicago Demolition episode .
http://www.discomusic.com/forums/dis...ght=demolition

and again ..... nice to see you here !


remicks
*****

[Mixmachine]

I don't know if Steve Dahl coined the term, but apparently (and unbeknown to me until recently) the "Disco Sucks" campaing was started long ago (most likely in 1977) before the Comisky Park events.

If you listen to the "Saturday Night fever" DVD commentary track the movie producers were very worry that they would never get to release SNF and rushed finishing the production just in case, he mentions driving down LA (I believe) and noticing many "disco sucks" bumper stickers so he began to worry that maybe the movie was going to be a Box Office flop.

[paul]

This is in part political but I've mentioned in similar threads in the past that it occured around '81 in the states. This was around the time Reagan came into office. There was a push to get rid of the what disco represented. Multiculturalism, free love, drugs, free expression of sexuality, etc. Reagan and his election represented the opposite of all that. He represented a conservative return to '50s sensabilities.
The underlying hatred for all things disco was always there. In one of my favorite movies "Airplane", there was a scene where the airplane knocks down the transmission tower of a disco station.

[garrybcoston]

I don't know if Steve Dahl coined the term, but apparently (and unbeknown to me until recently) the "Disco Sucks" campaing was started long ago (most likely in 1977) before the Comisky Park events.

If you listen to the "Saturday Night fever" DVD commentary track the movie producers were very worry that they would never get to release SNF and rushed finishing the production just in case, he mentions driving down LA (I believe) and noticing many "disco sucks" bumper stickers so he began to worry that maybe the movie was going to be a Box Office flop.

Now that I think about it "Mix Machine," you're right. I remember seeing those bumper stickers long before the demolition in Comisky Park but paid them no mind. By the way, our disco radio station in the town we lived in saw it all coming way before 1979; they closed "disco shop" and switched formats in September 1978; less than a year later the demolition would be held at Comisky. So many saw disco's downturn and decline in late 1978.

I still say that Dahl, and others helped ruined peoples lives. Lot of jobs and money was lost because of that event in Comisky. I sincerely believe had the demolition not happened, disco would not have died, but would have waned and softened and still been called disco. Fashion, scene, etc. would have changed, but to a different beat of the drum, if you will; hence not being ashamed of the word disco or discoteque which is what happened as a result of the Comisky event which quickly killed disco.

I say all of this in complete respect to Mr. Dahl; he was entitled to his opinion and what he did then, as is his opinion now. Please approve this message and send it thorugh "powers that be."

Thank you.

Garry:grin:

[garrybcoston]

By the way "Mix Machine," I love your AVATAR!

Garry:lol:

[Mixmachine]

This is in part political but I've mentioned in similar threads in the past that it occured around '81 in the states. This was around the time Reagan came into office. There was a push to get rid of the what disco represented. Multiculturalism, free love, drugs, free expression of sexuality, etc. Reagan and his election represented the opposite of all that. He represented a conservative return to '50s sensabilities.
The underlying hatred for all things disco was always there. In one of my favorite movies "Airplane", there was a scene where the airplane knocks down the transmission tower of a disco station.

Typical lunatic leftist revisionist bullshit, but what else is new ??

fact is that the club scene was bigger than ever in the early 1980's and more drugs and 'freelove" was had than ever before , despite the Aids epidemic Gay clubs were more prevalent than ever, (check the facts ) , more so than in the 70's when they were few and far in between and mostly hidden in the warehouse district out of sight!!!

So the Hollywood producers of "airplane'" were doing Reagan's bidding :lol::lol::lol: What a hoot!!! such idiotic conclusion could only come from the mind of a paranoid Lefty, "Airplane" was released in the summer of 1980, which means that production took place at least a year before, before Reagan was in office.;), I guess we need to also add ‘anti disco’ to the great accomplisment list of the Carter administration. :razz::razz:

[garrybcoston]

Conspiracy? Against Disco? Come on. Are we saying that disco died because of a governmental conspiracy due to disco's gay themes, sexual perversionist activities, drugs, excessive alcohol, etc.? Then what about Rap? Why would one, only one administration seek to do this? It would seem that there would be a parallel or consistency in other republican administrations seeking to do the same, especially against a music genre such as rap, being that rap is even more "thuggy" and "non-moralistic" than disco ever was.

I disagree with the conspiracy concept by the Reagan Administration. I believe that greed, jealousy, hate, Mr. Dahl and his cohorts, and prejuidice toward the disco crowd, and possibly other factors I can't think of at this moment are what mostly killed disco.

Garry:icon_neutral:

[paul]

Easy, easy. I never said anything about a conspiracy. What I'm saying is that their was an underlying current in this country against the sort of thing disco represented or came to represent.
The Anita Bryants of the world were bashing the gay lifestyle. There was the Jerry Falwells and the moral majority running around opposed to open sexuality, drugs and the women's roles. There was gay bashing associated with disco, and sex and drugs were prevalent in the culture. Add to the mix those who simply hated disco and you can see how this would end what we all knew as disco. I think most would agree that traditional disco ended around '81 to '82.
Reagan was inaugurated January '81. A conservative bent took hold. The head shops I knew in Boston were closing and there was less tolerance for drugs. The drinking age was also being raised. Then of course there was AIDS.
As for more sex in the 80s than in the 70s, I don't know about that. I remember a lot of women becoming more fearful of herpes and yes, AIDS.

Mix, I also remember the air was thick with sulfur once Reagan got in :D

[stevieboy32808]

Disco died in the early 80's.

Althought, it evolved into House music. At first it was just dj's sampling old disco records and bringing them back to life. A great example of this is Candi Staton's track You Got The Love. The vocals from that track were mixed on top of a house beat/rhythm from a track by Frankie Knuckles & Jaime Principle called Your Love. But then the djs thought they could go further and make their own music. This movement fueled what today is known as EDM or electronic dance music. It's called EDM because the music was being produced with hardware instead of live instruments like disco music was. House music gave birth to many genres of EDM, most famously techno and trance. Trance music is a derivative between house and techno combined.

I guess you could say disco still lives on, but not in the sense you would expect.

[all*that*glitters*]

So what do you think? When do you think the beginning of the end came for disco? When do you think disco died? Let's get this thread fired up and let us know your thoughts!

Garry

to blame Steve Dahl for the so-called 'death of disco' is to give the man more credit than the man deserves.

Disco NEVER died! It just went UNDERGROUND, back to where it started from.

Steve Dahl may have picked the right moment to start his witch-hunting campaign on Disco with a strong anti-gay element, especially at that moment when Disco was at it's commercial peak. Disco had taken over almost any rock radio format all over the USA and commercially Disco was everywhere...

Worse things came not only from the gay-bashing, Disco-hating rockfans but also from within the Disco industry itself. The overkill that most major record companies were releasing and the creative void that started to show clearly with every Disco 12" released was evident that Disco was losing it's power. Andy Williams doing a disco version of 'love story' or after Cookie Monster, Oscar and Big Bird cut their disco album all commercial disco had turned into a joke. The mirror started to crack....


Personally, I do not believe that there is an exact time or specific historic moment that pinpoints the 'death of Disco'. For many people it must be that moment when Studio 54 closed it's doors, for others it will be the charting of a certain record, for me it was the fact that Disco simply started losing its momentum, its creativity, its soul...

The day when Steve Dahl rioted in Chicago, that day Disco became Dance Music!! To be reborn as Hi Energy, Hip Hop, Electro, Freestyle....later on as Chicago House and Techno, or Euro Disco...

While the anti-Disco, anti-gay movement spreaded across the US the hardcore dancers and dj's went underground to clubs like The Paradise Garage. The Saint may have been empty but the queues in front of The Garage were still growing every saturday night.

The homophobic "disco sucks" campaign only served to unite the community. And for that, I think Steve Dahl deserves all the credit he can get...

[stevieboy32808]

The day when Steve Dahl rioted in Chicago, that day Disco became Dance Music!! To be reborn as Hi Energy, Hip Hop, Electro, Freestyle....later on as Chicago House and Techno, or Euro Disco...

This is highly inaccurate. Disco is dance music even before Steve Dahl rioted in Chicago.

Disco gave rise to rap (Sugarhill Gang anyone?), not hip-hop. Hip hop & freestyle and to a certain extent breakbeats are offshoots of electro. Electro's forefront pioneer was Kraftwerk.

You are right about one thing though and that is that disco gave rise to house music. Again hi-energy, formerly hard house, is a subgenre of house.

While the anti-Disco, anti-gay movement spreaded across the US the hardcore dancers and dj's went underground to clubs like The Paradise Garage. The Saint may have been empty but the queues in front of The Garage were still growing every saturday night.

Yes Paradise Garage gave a renewed sense of disco hope by the likes of Larry Levan.

[all*that*glitters*]

This is highly inaccurate. Disco is dance music even before Steve Dahl rioted in Chicago.

Disco gave rise to rap (Sugarhill Gang anyone?), not hip-hop. Hip hop & freestyle and to a certain extent breakbeats are offshoots of electro. Electro's forefront pioneer was Kraftwerk.

You are right about one thing though and that is that disco gave rise to house music. Again hi-energy, formerly hard house, is a subgenre of house.

Yes Paradise Garage gave a renewed sense of disco hope by the likes of Larry Levan.

Stevieboy, I only refer to the terms Disco and Dance Music as those terms that the industry uses when categorising music. Or when you log into a site like this where you will find exactly the same categorisation.
Of course; dance music has been around ever since men started beating on drums but in terms of marketeers talk; the term Disco came before Dance Music when a multitude of styles took over after Disco.

[/quote]Disco gave rise to rap (Sugarhill Gang anyone?), not hip-hop. Hip hop & freestyle and to a certain extent breakbeats are offshoots of electro. Electro's forefront pioneer was Kraftwerk[/quote]

Where were you in the early Eighties?? Do you really think that all these styles were soooo strictly divived on the dancefloors?? In reality most disco's in those days were experimenting with new styles of dance music when the crowds got tired of the Disco formula. Especially a cultural icon like Larry Levan at the Paradise Garage who was experimenting with new sounds well before the jocks in Chicago burned disco. Larry's sets at the Garage were always eclectic, not 100% pure Disco and they became more so in the eighties as he incorporated punk, hard rock, new wave, reggae and other world beats into the mix.

Latin Hip Hop or Freestyle was played mainly at the Funhouse in NYC by ao John Jellybean Benitez, Madonna was a regular there. Producers and DJ's like Masters at Work and Todd Terry own a lot to the legacy of Latin Hip Hop. Rap and Hip Hop do have the same roots, as they were born into the same neighbourhoods. But Disco gave not rise to Rap as they were two opposite styles of music and of different cultural backgrounds that could never emerge as one. The people that created rap and Hip Hop wouldn't be found dead near a Disco!!

[/quote]You are right about one thing though and that is that disco gave rise to house music. Again hi-energy, formerly hard house, is a subgenre of house[/quote]

Your quote proves that you know about the evolution of hi-energy into hard house but it shows that you don't realise where hi-energy is originally coming from. So here's a little story on the origin and evolution of hi-energy....read on....

Hi-Energy was popular in the early 80's and was born waaaaaay before the House movement took over.

If the funky black and latino facets of Disco evolved into House music, the whiter Eurodisco sound of Moroder, Bellotte and Cerrone lived on in a genre that would eventually be known as Hi-Energy. Hi-Energy was epitomised in the high camp of artists like Sylvester, Divine and Miguel Brown. And its influence was huge. Hi-energy became the lingua franca of white gay dancefloors worldwide, and then crossed over into the mainstream. This is the music which was appropriated by UK producers Stock, Aitken and Waterman, who sold this unashamedley gay sound as teen-pop with bubblegum acts like Bananarama, Dead or Alive and Mel & Kim.
When combined with the force of the nineties European techno, in shirts-off homo-hedonistic clubs like London's Trade, Hi-energy evolved into various forms of hard dance -nu-energy, trancecore, hard house....

Another British producer and DJ Ian Levine, made Hi-energy his own by producing an endless stream of speedy tunes that were tailored especially for dancefloors of Club Heaven and The Saint. These clubs were operative in the early 80's, when most House artists were still in their pampers! These records were largely extensions of the Eurodisco sound, but Levine exaggerated the style, bringing to it the aesthetic he'd developed in his Northern Soul career. The result was fast, stompy music filled with swirling melodies and featuring a series of female vocalists -Eartha Kitt, Hazell Dean, Evelyn Thomas, singing lyrics with which every gay man could identify. One song 'High Energy' by Evelyn Thomas, would clarify the style's name (it was also known as 'boystown' or simply 'gay disco')

from the book 'last night a dj saved my life' by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton (Headline Books 2006)

I definitely recommend you this book, it is accurate and very well written and if you are interested in one percent of Dance Music you will get 100% knowledge of the matter after reading this.

And besides, having lived and DJ-ed in those days when Disco and Dance Music were originating is even better than reading all about it....I can tell as I have lived the story sofar and witnessed the facts from within....

[markydefad]

I agree that if you went to clubs--it didn't seem at the time (end of 1979) that disco had died--but the music changed radically from 1979 to 1980--the whole R&B Solar sound (And The Beat Goes On, Take your Time (Do it Right), etc.) and Prelude/ West End sound took over along with the Euro stuff (Lime) and the New Wavish rock stuff...there was a genuine dearth of records that sounded like classic 1979 (Take Me Home, Ain't That Enough For you, A Little Lovin' Keeps The Doctor Away) disco...only in retrospect do you hear the way it changed. So maybe No More Tears (Enough is Enough) was the ultimate last hurrah for the traditional disco record....times were a-changin', the old style was taboo---keep the production funkier bassline-oriented, dump the swirling strings, the girly-girl vocals--bring back some grit with the smoove Quincy Jones style of production. By 1982 0r 1983...any vestiges of old disco seemed gone...It's Raining Men or Sharon Redd's In The Name Of Love...being about the only things I can think of that had the appeal to the "old days." ;-)

[SandraDee]

It's Raining Men or Sharon Redd's In The Name Of Love...being about the only things I can think of that had the appeal to the "old days." ;-)

The Boystown Gang's stuff had a very 'trad/retro' sound in '82 also. There were still many boogie/funky disco tracks in '82 that still had strings in them too like Esther Williams and Stephanie Mills.

[markydefad]

yeah Boystown Gang was made by and for GAYS in San Francisco...Bill Motley (producer) loved to remake oldies form the Sixties & early Seventies from his record collection as comtemporary dance music.....seems like the "stings" were actually "synthesizers"...they didn't have the budget for violins!!! that went for cocaine and speed.

[SandraDee]

Wow I'm shocked! I would've put money on them being real strings on 'Cant Take My Eyes Off You'.:o

[markydefad]

hmmm...I'll check, maybe I'm wrong--but listening to most of this stuff now it all seems like synths to me---the "horns" on Rick James records--the "strings" on Boystown Gang...it was the cheap way out and the accepted modern sound at the time....strings were "old school"..... but then again maybe someone actually did use real live violins-on-fire.....

where's the guy who knows every record with strings?....his real name is Kevin, i think....can't recall his moniker...he's studied all this stuff:icon_exclaim:

[Mixmachine]

One song 'High Energy' by Evelyn Thomas, would clarify the style's name (it was also known as 'boystown' or simply 'gay disco')

I haven't read any 'Disco Book' yet, but for me this excerpt is one perfect example of how what is written in many of this books (judging from posted quotes like this one) is at odds with my personal experiences during this era that includes 12 years of Djing for all types of crowds and clubs. I often say that many of this authors' findings are 'narrow' and in many cases biased and written for the most part from the NYC experience point of view only.

America (was)and is a big place!!!!


Every Miami and vicinities DJ I ever met in the late 70's called high BPMed (over 128bpm or so) Disco music "HIGH ENERGY", if anything Evelyn's record was capitalizing on this long established term that was not exclusive to the Gay world. (not yet anyways)

When we discussed music (late 70's )like Sylvester's "Disco Heat " and Patrick Hernadez "born to be alive " and literally tons of similar songs we labeled them all as "High Energy music or Disco", and local straight Djs played 'High energy sets' in all Discotheques in the city not just Gay ones.

At the time, when the Evelyn Thomas' "High energy" single was first released (83 ?) many local Djs (like me) didn't considered this song "High Energy" at all, as the BPM (?) and over all energy of the record was not high enough, this was mostly categorized as 'techno Disco' along the same line of Carol Jiani's "Hit and Run" , Elliman's " love pains" ('82 remix @124 bpm) and similar stuff of the day like this.

[remicks]

Where were you in the early Eighties?? Do you really think that all these styles were soooo strictly divived on the dancefloors?? In reality most disco's in those days were experimenting with new styles of dance music when the crowds got tired of the Disco formula. Especially a cultural icon like Larry Levan at the Paradise Garage who was experimenting with new sounds well before the jocks in Chicago burned disco. Larry's sets at the Garage were always eclectic, not 100% pure Disco and they became more so in the eighties as he incorporated punk, hard rock, new wave, reggae and other world beats into the mix.
....

Should I apologize right up front for the arrival of "Miss Sue Argue" !!
But these are the very debates I do so enjoy !!!

However ATG :roll: ..... (shock here ) .....this time I agree with you :D .... about how all this 80's dance music was very mixed up .... no one club played only one type of dance music .....they may have leaned to a certain sound ... but all this stuff crossed back and forth to a degree. There were just too many camps providing their own sounds to explore to be locked into only one. This was part of disco/dance music's progressive nature ....exploring these various sounds .... especially whatever was "new' that was coming down the turnpike.

AND this is exactly the point I've been trying to make elsewhere about disco ... even during the most disco of years .....there was no one "true" disco sound ....it was always a mixture of styles and influences. This is why it drives me crazy to hear it argued that "true" disco and the "best" disco was limited to something specific .... such as black disco (whatever that actually is ?? ) .......of course black artists were indeed the fact for a great deal of it....good and bad ....but let's not then deny the diversity of the sounds that have also been called "disco" all along.

I don't care /didn't care what color any artist/producer was .... (who could keep up if one wanted to?) ....and I don't remember anyone caring .... so it does perplex me why this gets mentioned so much by others .....

There was so much being contributed to the broad umbrella of disco from so many various factions worldwide ....
.....this to me is disco's highest bragging right.8-)

All I can say is ( get ready .... here it comes :roll: ) .......thank god for Billboard and Marky's charts ....'cause there it is .....this disco history of diversity spelled out in black and white :-? and beyond ....8)

(insert extra happy faces :D :D :D :D :D )


******


And sorry Mixmachine ..... no arguement from me for you either . I think what you've said is right on target.:D

[markydefad]

Billboard used the term "Disco" alone in it's dance charts from 1974 til 1981; then it added "Dance" to the "Disco" (Dance/Disco or Disco/Dance) to the charts from 1982-1983; by 1984, the term "Disco" was gone.....;)

[stevieboy32808]

Stevieboy, I only refer to the terms Disco and Dance Music as those terms that the industry uses when categorising music. Or when you log into a site like this where you will find exactly the same categorisation.
Of course; dance music has been around ever since men started beating on drums but in terms of marketeers talk; the term Disco came before Dance Music when a multitude of styles took over after Disco.

Stop separating disco and dance. Disco is dance music, that's all I'm saying. Also I was referring to the roots of modern dance music which started with disco and used the traditional 4/4 beat measure. Disco originally had its roots as danceable type of RnB.

Where were you in the early Eighties?? Do you really think that all these styles were soooo strictly divived on the dancefloors?? In reality most disco's in those days were experimenting with new styles of dance music when the crowds got tired of the Disco formula. Especially a cultural icon like Larry Levan at the Paradise Garage who was experimenting with new sounds well before the jocks in Chicago burned disco. Larry's sets at the Garage were always eclectic, not 100% pure Disco and they became more so in the eighties as he incorporated punk, hard rock, new wave, reggae and other world beats into the mix.

When you say formula I hope you're refering to the corporate labels jumping the bandwagon and hoping to cash in on the disco wave. The result was a ton of mass produced disco garbage which lost all of its genuine underground feel, hence your use of the world formulaic. If you mean this then I agree with you.

Latin Hip Hop or Freestyle was played mainly at the Funhouse in NYC by ao John Jellybean Benitez, Madonna was a regular there. Producers and DJ's like Masters at Work and Todd Terry own a lot to the legacy of Latin Hip Hop.

I agree and just to add to this Freestyle was also popular in South Florida as well.

Rap and Hip Hop do have the same roots, as they were born into the same neighbourhoods. But Disco gave not rise to Rap as they were two opposite styles of music and of different cultural backgrounds that could never emerge as one. The people that created rap and Hip Hop wouldn't be found dead near a Disco!!

I'll agree to disagree. Rap for me came from disco. Another example besides Sugarhill Gang is Kurtis Blow. They all used rhythms which are 4/4 dance beats around the 120 BPM. Today rap has evolved to a much slower 80-90 BPM tempo of music. Hip hop and freestyle's origin for me remain at electro. As far as breakbeats is concerned that type of music share its roots in house and electro music. House producers took hip hop beats and speeded them up.

Your quote proves that you know about the evolution of hi-energy into hard house but it shows that you don't realise where hi-energy is originally coming from. So here's a little story on the origin and evolution of hi-energy....read on....

Hi-Energy was popular in the early 80's and was born waaaaaay before the House movement took over.

I agree hi-energy existed slightly before the house movement.

If the funky black and latino facets of Disco evolved into House music

You're absolutely right. That's what I meant when I said disco came from house.

, the whiter Eurodisco sound of Moroder, Bellotte and Cerrone lived on in a genre that would eventually be known as Hi-Energy. Hi-Energy was epitomised in the high camp of artists like Sylvester, Divine and Miguel Brown. And its influence was huge. Hi-energy became the lingua franca of white gay dancefloors worldwide, and then crossed over into the mainstream.

I'll give you Evelyn Thomas, Divine, and Miquel Brown on hi-energy producers, but not Moroder, Bellote, and Cerrone. They have a more rawer sound unlike hi-energy.

This is the music which was appropriated by UK producers Stock, Aitken and Waterman, who sold this unashamedley gay sound as teen-pop with bubblegum acts like Bananarama, Dead or Alive and Mel & Kim.
When combined with the force of the nineties European techno, in shirts-off homo-hedonistic clubs like London's Trade, Hi-energy evolved into various forms of hard dance -nu-energy, trancecore, hard house....

Agreed.

Another British producer and DJ Ian Levine, made Hi-energy his own by producing an endless stream of speedy tunes that were tailored especially for dancefloors of Club Heaven and The Saint. These clubs were operative in the early 80's, when most House artists were still in their pampers!

Sorry for being nitpicky, but most house artists were well into their young adulthood in the early 80's. If what you say is true then by the time house peaked in '87 they would be 7 years old producing Classic Chicago & Detroit House (1987-1980 = 7 years old)

These records were largely extensions of the Eurodisco sound, but Levine exaggerated the style, bringing to it the aesthetic he'd developed in his Northern Soul career. The result was fast, stompy music filled with swirling melodies and featuring a series of female vocalists -Eartha Kitt, Hazell Dean, Evelyn Thomas, singing lyrics with which every gay man could identify. One song 'High Energy' by Evelyn Thomas, would clarify the style's name (it was also known as 'boystown' or simply 'gay disco')

from the book 'last night a dj saved my life' by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton (Headline Books 2006)

I definitely recommend you this book, it is accurate and very well written and if you are interested in one percent of Dance Music you will get 100% knowledge of the matter after reading this.

And besides, having lived and DJ-ed in those days when Disco and Dance Music were originating is even better than reading all about it....I can tell as I have lived the story sofar and witnessed the facts from within....

I can't argue with that. Consider myself in agreement with most of what you said and I also recommend not just to you, but all the disco addicts to watch these beautiful house documentary. It's split into 3 parts. It starts at the so-called death of disco to the birth of house and ends all the way with the creation of techno in the late 80's, early 90's.

Part 1:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+up+the+volume
Part 2:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+up+the+volume
Part 3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+up+the+volume