Do you like ABBA?

[Jim Colyer]

I linked ABBA video to my site. It is an ABBA orgy if you like the Swedes.

http://jimcolyer.com/papers/entry?id=44

[remicks]

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Who could watch that video of DANCING QUEEN ......and not love ABBA ....

THANKS !!!

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[QUINNY]

Do I like rabies?

One of the few groups I'll avoid at all costs, especially Dancing Queen. That goes double for my wife and guess what the special summer treat was this year from her employer. Tickets to go and see an ABBA tribute band and a BEE GEES tribute bad too. We declined.:-D :-D :-D

[tony98]

I totally agree with Quinny, normally i'd rather have my eyeballs peirced than listen to Abba,but i don't mind "Lay your love on me " Disco Mix..

[marc0]

It's a little "too much" on the commercial side of disco music. They had good stuff, but I've had an overdose of it during the late 70's.

[Disco Funk]

I agree with everyone above about ABBA. For me, they're just too pop cheese, though I do like Dancing Queen but I would never have played it as part of a DJ set. Incidentally, I read somewhere that Dancing Queen was one song that stands out in Tom Moulton's mind as a track he would have loved to have remixed back in the day, but never got a chance.

Disco Funk

[White Raven]

Excuse me, but I something don’t understand the term: “just too pop”. Disco music is pop music, not like progressive rock, for example. Disco music is music, first of all, for dancing.

Maybe the prob is, that ABBA, to my mind, goes from beat – something near from English rock wave of the 60’s. The group is not from the “black-soul” roots, like CROWN HEIGHTS AFFAIR, for example, and not from jazz too like GINO SOCCIO, so sounds not so serious. ABBA has not the blues but has rock’n’roll roots too: remember, please, their “Waterloo”. It’s absolutely European variety-art-band. and their sound ABBA it’s near to music-hall art maybe near pop-rock and folk too. Only in that way I can understand the term: “just too pop”.

A few words about what I mean, when saying “music-hall”? It’s variety art like for example, when PENNY MCLEAN sang in 1975 “Smoke Gets In Your Eyes” in disco-beat, or GILLA in 1978 sang “The Girl From Ipanema” in disco-beat too. These two songs were remade in disco-beat but not in disco-style traditions. Of course disco, first of all, bases on drums structure, but it’s not enough. Real (to my mind) disco must have right attributes of strings and brass too! It’s something like someone here (I mean this forum) asks: “SARAH BRIGHTMAN, HERBIE HANCOCK - are them disco?” So, remembering 1979 “Dynasty” from KISS I can ask you: “Is the song “I Was Made For” disco song too?” And what about “Another Brick In A Wall” and “Run Like Hell” from PINK FLOYD's "The Wall" in 1979? One more thing: monster of psychedelic sound, not easy PINK FLOYD, played in 1975 “Shine On You Crazy Diamond”. According to the drums structure it’s absolutely 3/4 measure - it’s simple waltz! But it’s already another story…

So, in the end of 70’s many bands played in DISCO-direction, many of them played something in disco-beat, but only some of them played in real disco-style. I love ABBA, but don’t think that it’s real DISCO, it’s very good variety-art-band.

[Boodikka]

I actually didn't care much about them in their heyday, but I've come to appreciate them as nostalgia. I think I've got the entire ABBA ouevre on this comp, with a lot of alternate Spanish and Swedish versions. "Take A Chance On Me" and "Voulez Vous" would be the faves here, and I always loved the story about nutty Agnetha attacking Bjorn (or was it Benny?) with a herring during a domestic imbroglio.

[paul]

I actually didn't care much about them in their heyday, but I've come to appreciate them as nostalgia. I think I've got the entire ABBA ouevre on this comp, with a lot of alternate Spanish and Swedish versions. "Take A Chance On Me" and "Voulez Vous" would be the faves here, and I always loved the story about nutty Agnetha attacking Bjorn (or was it Benny?) with a herring during a domestic imbroglio.

Exactly Boodi. Back then, I would never buy. They strictly AM pop music. Now given what's out and a bit of nostalgia, I bought a couple of their cds.

[Paulo]

Excuse me, but I something don’t understand the term: “just too pop”. Disco music is pop music, not like progressive rock, for example........

:D
I always thought the same way as you White Raven:
Back in the 70's, I would always consider that albums like GODBLUFF by VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR or BRAIN SALAD SURGERY by EMERSON, LAKE AND PALMER were the most clever thing around.

But, when I became older, later on, I noticed that albums like DANCING IN PARADISE by EL COCO or STARCRUISER by GREGG DIAMOND were better, no matter the rubbish lyrics.... I am speaking about musicianship and arrangements.

The world treated non-danceable music (like ROCK and specially PROG-ROCK) as intellectual, serious, clever and adult-designed music... while danceable music was treated as expendable, dispensable or disposable music for imediate consumption and then thrown away... like a used paper handkerchief full of bogey.

But any person who is devoided of any kind of preconceptions can notice that 70's disco music and soul music have just as good, if not superior music arrengements and better instrumentation and musicianship.

I think what the guys are saying here is that there is ''POP DISCO'' and there is ''NOT SO POP DISCO''. In other words: ''DISCO NOT MIXED WITH POP MUSIC'', which has different trademarks from the POP one: they may be side-long disco songs, or up to 8 minute disco songs, or underground disco songs, or instrumental disco songs or disco songs ''not so pop sounding'' (listen to RINDER & LEWIS albums SEVEN DEADLY SINS or WARRIORS and you will know what I mean: there is an abyss in style between these albums and Abba's or Village People's records). But as a ''reward'' for being more experimental, Rinder & Lewis (or others like Boris Midney, Gino Soccio or Cerrone) have paid a price: to live in oblivion, in anonymity and obscurity... as far as the music business is concerned.

I have even seen a new 2004 term on the internet called ''deep-disco'' to distinguish VILLAGE PEOPLE's MACHO MAN or BEE GEE's STAYING ALIVE from LE PAMPLEMOUSSE's LE SPANK or LOVE DE LUXE's HERE COMES THAT SOUND (that's just an example between the 2 styles).

Back to the main topic:
I don't like ABBA, but I love FERNANDO, VOULEZ VOUS and specially DANCING QUEEN. This last track helped to establish 'disco' as an 'entity' of its own apart from soul. Other songs by other artists paved the way before , but they were 'soul inflected' : WOMAN, WILD SAFARI, SOUL MAKOSSA, ARMED AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, SHAFT, ROCK THE BOAT, WELCOME TO THE CLUB, WHAT'S GOING ON, MERCY MERCY ME, LOVE THEME, PAPPA WAS A ROLLING STONE, KUNG-FU FIGHTING etc....

[Noman]

I'll issue a Swedish Fatwa on you all non-ABBA lovers. Look out for me 8-)

[Svend]

ABBA suffers for having made a difficult thing appear easy. Their music, despite its reputation as mindless AM fluff, is among the most complexly arranged, often difficult to sing, stuff out there. No less than Bono (U2), Elvis Costello, Pet Shop Boys and Bryan Ferry are fans. True, ABBA exhibit little if any knowledge of black music forms in their work, but that's not a requirement. Or is it? It's the whole "the soul is in the melody" business we've discussed before. Complex rhythms, gospel testifying, soul shouting--all are exciting ways of affecting people through music--but they don't own a patent on stirring people's souls. If melody alone doesn't move you, so be it.

[RetroRuss]

Yuk! I'd rather eat a leper's toenail then play an Abba tune!

[Paulo]

...Back to the main topic:
I don't like ABBA, but I love FERNANDO, VOULEZ VOUS and specially DANCING QUEEN. This track helped to establish disco as an entity of its own apart from soul....

I am quoting myself because I forgot another Abba track which I like very much and that's WATCH OUT... a disco-rock track.... A heavy guitar over a disco beat. it played a lot here around 76/77. Good one.

[Prefab Sprouter]

Abba?? No way. Never. Not even in an ironic sense. They were talented songwriters alright and the music was listenable at one stage but way way WAY overplayed and the terms "dead Horse" and Flogging" spring to mind easily. I cant listen to them at all.

[White Raven]

2 Swend: Elvis Presley for example, was one of the first, who played the music of black and made it “pop”ular. And what a result? He made it easier to understand for white people, but lost it’s blues-mighty. Yes, real DISCO must have sharp standard in sounding too. I mean funk&blues roots! It’s history from it’s beginning. In another way it’s not disco-style, but only disco-beat, no more.

2 Paulo: I absolutely agree with You! Gino Soccio or Cerrone have paid a price: to live in oblivion, in anonymity and obscurity... as far as the music business is concerned, yes that’s true! Money way, commercial purposes and so on, but they didn’t left the style, the same one to Shaft (Isaac Hayes), Queen Samantha, Wild Cherry, Chic, Osibisa, Crown Heights Affair, for example. Such projects were not “for imediate consumption and then thrown away”. Musicianship of disco must have high technique: is not easy music for playing, especially for base. I’m baseman myself, and I know what I’m speaking about. DISCO - is very serious and hard scientific work!

Concerning GODBLUFF by VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR or BRAIN SALAD SURGERY by EMERSON, LAKE AND PALMER, I think that are not so good examples for progressive scene. ELP – is trivial sympho band, to my mind, and with no any future too with their remakes of classics. Goodbluff’75 “was too late and, so no needed”. Their works in 1969-1971 are really fantastic for me! Digging more deeper, please make the journey to my heart: http://www.magma-zeuhl-wortz.narod.ru/index.htm


2 Noman: Forgive me, please, because I love Secret Service!!!:roll:

[InvisibleMan]

It seems I will be in minority here, but I love those magical Swedish melodies that are consistent from song to song...disco or not it's still great. And yeah ABBA was mostly pop, but great pop that appeals to both young and old alike. In fact, I think they were very underrated in US, just like much of Europop often is. Though in UK it seems they had more number ones than Michael Jackson

[pepper1dancer]

Hell Yeah!!

[the disco kid]

I don't like ABBA I LOVE ABBA!

[JussiK]

The reason I don't know many people in my country I hang around with who like Abba is that we grew up in an enviroment polluted with what is known in the nordic region and in Germany as the schlager. This is lowest common denominator mor pop sound for the whole family, kinda like country&western with no banjos, an ubercommercial mishmash of sound with elements of rock and disco. Our radio, our parents, our aunts and uncles all love schlagers. During the past two decades unfortunately, almost all gay clubs have also gone to a diet of it, along with handbag house, last year's Madonna and last year's MTV dance hits. Safe music with lyrics everyone knows.

The schlager is a cancer that needs to be eliminated. It has destroyed the music taste of too many people already. People embrace it once they turn into thirtysomethings or come out of the closet.

My point is though the Abba stuff is very well produced it is still schlager in essence. For every "Visitors" there's 18 sappy schlagers in the songbook. I know people outside our territories here don't see it that way but if you were subjected to the aural torture that we have to endure here when we walk thru a supermarket etc you'd scream No More Fucking Abba, too :-).

[InvisibleMan]

The reason I don't know many people in my country I hang around with who like Abba is that we grew up in an enviroment polluted with what is known in the nordic region and in Germany as the schlager. This is lowest common denominator mor pop sound for the whole family, kinda like country&western with no banjos, an ubercommercial mishmash of sound with elements of rock and disco.
The schlager is a cancer that needs to be eliminated. It has destroyed the music taste of too many people already. People embrace it once they turn into thirtysomethings or come out of the closet.

My point is though the Abba stuff is very well produced it is still schlager in essence. For every "Visitors" there's 18 sappy schlagers in the songbook. I know people outside our territories here don't see it that way but if you were subjected to the aural torture that we have to endure here when we walk thru a supermarket etc you'd scream No More Fucking Abba, too :-).

I don't mind German/Scandinavian Schlager, but maybe for me that would depend on a specific song. It's traditionally big on melody and I guess has a traditional pop feel to it. I think term Schlager was also used in Russia to refer to pop music. Just like in France they have Chanson, and I don't know what they call it in Italy, but their pop has its own distinct feel too.

a lot of Eurovision contest was/is based on Schlager. Songs with memorable melodies accessible to many people

[JussiK]

I don't mind German/Scandinavian Schlager, but maybe for me that would depend on a specific song. It's traditionally big on melody and I guess has a traditional pop feel to it. I think term Schlager was also used in Russia to refer to pop music. Just like in France they have Chanson, and I don't know what they call it in Italy, but their pop has its own distinct feel too.

a lot of Eurovision contest was/is based on Schlager. Songs with memorable melodies accessible to many people

French chansons have a lot more quality overall than traditional German/Japanese/Nordic schlagers. Those reek of malls, theme parks and loud, garishly lit beerhalls. In the beginning of the evening everyone is jolly but as the night goes on, the songs become progressively more melancholic. Purple&lime&pink tracksuits, excess alcohol, X-Factor-style gameshows and reality television, frizzy perms and mullets, concert t-shirts, more beer, karaoke machines, plastic palm trees, domestic violence and the desire to own a 90's style Hummer car. To that lifestyle the schlager provides the perfect soundtrack, in this country at least.

[InvisibleMan]

. Those reek of malls, theme parks and loud, garishly lit beerhalls. In the beginning of the evening everyone is jolly but as the night goes on, the songs become progressively more melancholic. Purple&lime&pink tracksuits, excess alcohol, X-Factor-style gameshows and reality television, frizzy perms and mullets, concert t-shirts, more beer, karaoke machines, plastic palm trees, domestic violence and the desire to own a 90's style Hummer car. To that lifestyle the schlager provides the perfect soundtrack, in this country at least.

hmm I am not too familiar with Finnish culture, but some things you mentioned like X-Factor and reality tv are just elements of modern Pop culture, they exist in many countries. If I'm not mistaken, Idol and X-Factor were UK inventions. Also don't forget Disco was also a part of pop culture, and back then many people blamed it for many vices as well.

as far as Schlager, I have heard for example Claudia Jung from Germany, Carola and Sanna Nielsen from Sweden, or Sofia Rotaru from Russia... I did not get a vibe of their music creating a desire for violence......but they certainly do have a typical ABBA pop feel to them.

I will use "Finnish disco" thread here to give an example of Finnish artists labeled "Schlager", and maybe you can give me an example of what you mean by Schlager. Youtube is a powerful tool

[JussiK]

Invisible Man: of course I don't claim that tracks like that low rent Sonja Lumme imitation Kim Wilde horror you sent an Youtube link to are a cause for domestic violence, let alone the music of Abba or the mawkish sounds of their compatriot, the born again christian Carola (Häqwist). This stuff is schlager, absolutely, pure and simple. What do say is if you visit a club or a bar that programs that sort of music changes are you'll see all around you what the British call yob culture. I don't know if there's an expression in America but I think you know what I mean. Hen parties, office parties, stag parties, tacky fashions, and always, too much drinking. There'll be people throwing up outside, women teetering about on high heels crying, macho posturing and quite often, fights. All set to schlagers. The music is not to blame but does it have to be so..bad?

[InvisibleMan]

This stuff is schlager, absolutely, pure and simple. What do say is if you visit a club or a bar that programs that sort of music changes are you'll see all around you what the British call yob culture. I don't know if there's an expression in America but I think you know what I mean. Hen parties, office parties, stag parties, tacky fashions, and always, too much drinking. There'll be people throwing up outside, women teetering about on high heels crying, macho posturing and quite often, fights. All set to schlagers. The music is not to blame but does it have to be so..bad?

here is what it says on the net about "yob culture", a term I hear for the first time:
Rowdy groups of young people spill out of a pub, and then rampage through the streets, roughing up each other and anyone else unfortunate enough to cross their drunken path.

I really have a hard time imagining people do that after or while listening to ABBA-type of music..... maybe listening to rebellious British Punk Rock yes I can see that.
That would be as ridiculous as saying that people party too much and engage in immoral behaviour listening to for example The Carpenters.

German Schlager videos that I've watched on youtube, it's mostly very young pre-teen kids, and middle-aged to older people in the audience. It might not be the coolest crowd, but it doesn't seem as bad as you describe.