Samba Soul - A Non-Warren Schatz Version?

[Disco Funk]

If you are all familiar with the Samba Soul self-titled album, the one with Mambo #5 and Chove Chuva/Mas Que Nada, the RCA released album credits indicate that Warren Schatz had a hand in the production. He even threw on a six track taken from The Brothers' 'Don't Stop Now' album, called 'Voce Abousou'. Schatz' mixed the album and 12" in NYC. But the record was recorded in Brazil. So does anyone know if the group released a record in Brazil with a different mix and/or track listing, which was then picked up by Warren Schatz, who decided to remix it and release it in the USA?

Disco Funk

[Marcio**]

I think Samba Soul was a 100 % RCA idea, they never recorded a non-disco version of their songs. A real case of disco mix was Bebu Silvetti's ''Spring Rain''. Originally ''Spring Rain'' wasn't a disco song, it was called ''Lluvia de Primavera'' and Tom Moulton remixed it as disco song. :)

[Disco Funk]

I thought Bebu Silvetti's Spring Rain was always Spring Rain. Tom Moulton just changed the mix of the instruments slightly and extended the track. I have an original 45 which has Travel Check on the B side. I also have that CD reissue of World Without Words which was the pre-Spring Rain LP. Some songs carried over to the Tom Moultin SR remix album, with new tracks to fill it out. I actually like the original mix because the sound of the bass drum is louder. I found it was kind of muted on the Tom Moulton mix.

As for Samba Soul, that's too bad it was solely a USA concept. I would have figured they might have released a record under a different artist name and album title. It was weird that Schatz would go to all that trouble, and only record 5 songs requiring the addition of a track from The Brothers' LP. After listening to the tracks on the album and 12" over and over again, I think Schatz slightly sped up Mambo #5, but really cranked up the speed on Chove Chuva-Mas Que Nada. The instruments sound like they were pitched upward. Even the sparse vocals sound like chipmunks. Either way the song works at the faster speed and at a slower, funky speed.

Disco Funk

[schatzman]

I had nothing to do with this record, although Jorge Pino asked me to join them in Brazil to do it. I wanted to go,but I was then head of RCA A & R and couldn't manage to go. My engineer, Joe Lopes went, but not me.

I never remixed anything on the album. I only put it out when it was delivered.

Hope this clear this up.

Thanks,
Warren Schatz

[Disco Funk]

I had nothing to do with this record, although Jorge Pino asked me to join them in Brazil to do it. I wanted to go,but I was then head of RCA A & R and couldn't manage to go. My engineer, Joe Lopes went, but not me.

I never remixed anything on the album. I only put it out when it was delivered.

Hope this clear this up.

Thanks,
Warren Schatz

Awesome info, thanks Warren! Thanks for clearing that up. Glad to see you on the Disco Music board.

I hate to be one of those gushy people, but I'm a fan of your work. For me, I tend to base my disco music purchases (if I can't listen to them before buying) on producers or musicians. For example, I buy anything Philly; or anything with a certain group of west coast session guys (Ed Green or Gadson on drums, Melvin Ragin on guitar, etc...); and I buy anything with your name on the production credits.

So far I've collected the Brothers albums, the Vicki Sue Robinson albums, the Inner City Symphony LP, the Gordon Grody LP from '77, and the New York Community Choir album from around the same time (the one with 'Express Yourself'). I think there's a few other things, like Frankie Valli in there too. I think it's the syncopated funk approach you took to your rhythm arrangements, accentuated by the distinctive conga playing by Carlos Martin, that has attracted me to the Warren Schatz sound.

Just a couple of questions for you, if they're no trouble to answer:

1. What was the inspiration or reason for doing the Inner City Symphony LP? I mean, it seemed like it was basically The Brothers, but just on a non-RCA label.

2. Any chance of 'Don't Stop Now' and/or the 12" mixes being put onto CD? I think the only track from that LP that's ever made it onto CD is the club anthem 'Under The Skin'.

Thanks!

Disco Funk

[the disco kid]

Originally ''Spring Rain'' wasn't a disco song, it was called ''Lluvia de Primavera'' and Tom Moulton remixed it as disco song. :)

Spring Rain was definitely a disco song before Tom Moulton did his mix, and ''Lluvia de Primavera'', means "Spring Rain" in Spanish, so it's the same title as well, i heard it played in clubs off of the "world without words" lp long before the 12" was available. TM extended it and created a nice little break, but all the elements are in the original LP version as well. TM just stretched it out.

[Videoskooter]

Hope this clear this up

Warren, welcome to the board and thx for filling us in. Always great to get the real facts from the people behind the story!

Now, if Monsieur Moulton can come in on the "Spring Rain" discussion we will be very happy people :icon_lol:

[Disco Funk]

Spring Rain was definitely a disco song before Tom Moulton did his mix, and ''Lluvia de Primavera'', means "Spring Rain" in Spanish, so it's the same title as well, i heard it played in clubs off of the "world without words" lp long before the 12" was available. TM extended it and created a nice little break, but all the elements are in the original LP version as well. TM just stretched it out.

I don't think TM would want to hear my opinion of his mix of Spring Rain. I always thought the kick drum in the original sounded much better.

Disco Funk

[schatzman]

Just a couple of questions for you, if they're no trouble to answer:

1. What was the inspiration or reason for doing the Inner City Symphony LP? I mean, it seemed like it was basically The Brothers, but just on a non-RCA label.

2. Any chance of 'Don't Stop Now' and/or the 12" mixes being put onto CD? I think the only track from that LP that's ever made it onto CD is the club anthem 'Under The Skin'.
__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm flattered by your comments. You've even named yourself after one of the albums I put together, "DIsco Funk"

You're perfectly right about Inner City Symphony. After Disco Soul, which came out on RCA's mid-price line, Bob Reno at Midland asked me to duplicate it for him. Since I was on to something different for the next Brother's album, I said yes. No one, including me, expected a mid-price album to have two successful singles on it and sell 100K copies. The "Don't Stop Now" album became a full priced record and my career at RCA was shot out of a canon. I thank David Todd for his excitement and hard work promoting "Are You Ready For This". It was the the record that defined my life for 20 years. If anyone thinks it takes money to make records Disco-Soul was done for $6K total and I thank Ethel Gabriel for giving me the chance.

I think you're right about "Don't Stop Now". I don't think RCA has any plans to do anything. They've been hard to deal with, since I left.

Glad to be part of this.

Thanks,
Warren

[BrunoRepublic]

Are the master tapes still around? I gather that the masters to a lot of things which have been long out-of-print are either lost in Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark-like warehouses, and/or detoriating from sticky tape syndrome. Many of the reissue compilations use needle-drops, some better cleaned up than others. I took a look at Ben Liebrand's site and learned that they can't locate the masters for Amii Stewart's "Knock On Wood", and that sold millions!

I did up "Don't Stop Now" as an audio restoration project, but I've only ever been able to find the LP, and not the 12" versions. Being a completist, I usually add all the 12" and 7" mixes/edits if possible.

[Disco Funk]

I'm flattered by your comments. You've even named yourself after one of the albums I put together, "DIsco Funk"

Are you talking about that RCA album from '75? That thing is so hard to get because it's got some really great obscure funk, with artists like Hudson County and the break beat/rap anthem 'Cookies' by Brother Soul. I think it goes for a lot of money on Ebay if it ever appears on there (I haven't personally seen a copy). What inspired you to put together this record together and choose those obscure tracks, as opposed to filling it with Top 40 stuff?

I actually picked my user name before I heard about that album. I like disco and I like funk, so I just put the two together. It was a coincidence that it was the same as the compilation album. :)

You're perfectly right about Inner City Symphony. After Disco Soul, which came out on RCA's mid-price line, Bob Reno at Midland asked me to duplicate it for him. Since I was on to something different for the next Brother's album, I said yes. No one, including me, expected a mid-price album to have two successful singles on it and sell 100K copies.

Ah, that's why the Disco Soul LP, the packaging I mean, seemed of slightly lower quality. Nothing against you. I was just surprised that when I found a sealed copy, it didn't come with a sleeve and seemed to be put together (the physical record, not the music) like one of those K Tel LPs. I like Disco Soul, with my favorite cuts being Are You Ready For This (too bad you couldn't do a longer version of this, even though you did remake it on the Inner City Symphony record); and the cover version of Fire with that smokin' organ!

Did you also have a hand in the Disco Express records? The Disco Soul LP packaging was similar to those. Now those two DE records had some really great, rare disco. The tracks blend into each other, like on Disco Soul, which is why I wonder if you might have sequenced all three records.

The "Don't Stop Now" album became a full priced record and my career at RCA was shot out of a canon. I thank David Todd for his excitement and hard work promoting "Are You Ready For This". It was the the record that defined my life for 20 years. If anyone thinks it takes money to make records Disco-Soul was done for $6K total and I thank Ethel Gabriel for giving me the chance.

I'm glad you mention David Todd. What was his role at RCA? I really liked his remixes of 'Express Yourself' by NYCC and the Faith Hope & Charity EP from Life Goes On, to name a few. His signature remix style was to strip everything away and let the drum track go. As someone who loves the sound of the drum, hearing his deconstruction mixes are a real treat.

That 'Don't Stop Now' record is just so amazing. I'm glad that Disco Soul was a success for you so you could make this classic disco record. Every song is a classic.

Could I pick your brain about some things about this record?
I noticed that you had two drummers playing on some tracks, if not all. How come you decided to do that, when most records usually just used one? And were they playing live together, or was the second drummer/ drum track dubbed later?

Also, was it your idea to have the bass to play such melodic grooves? I mean, if someone were to remake any of those tracks, they would have to replay the bass licks. Those riffs were just so funky!

I think you're right about "Don't Stop Now". I don't think RCA has any plans to do anything. They've been hard to deal with, since I left.

Glad to be part of this.

Thanks,
Warren

I think the RCA catalogue is now owned by BMG? That's too bad some of your great RCA albums may never see the light of day on CD. I still haven't had a chance to hear the 12" remixes of Brothers Theme and Make Love because that EP record goes for $100 or more on Ebay! Did you do the remixes for those tracks, or were those David Todd remixes?

Thanks again for your wonderful inside Warren! It's great to have a funky disco legend right here in our midst! You're the original Disco Funk! :)

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

I did up "Don't Stop Now" as an audio restoration project, but I've only ever been able to find the LP, and not the 12" versions. Being a completist, I usually add all the 12" and 7" mixes/edits if possible.

That 12" is insanely expensive on Ebay. I don't know if people are just buying it for Under The Skin, which I think is the same mix as on the LP, or the extended versions of Brothers Theme and Make Love, which is why I want to get it.

Yeah, like you, whenever I decide to put a record onto CDR, I try to find all of the 12" mixes and 45s, if I can't pair the record with another similar one. By the way, the mix of Voce Abousou on Samba Soul is the same as on Don't Stop Now. And I think there's a 45-only track from that Don't Stop Now session called This World Today Is A Mess, and it's on the flip to Voce Abousou.

And if you want to add some more Brother-related tracks onto that CD project, there's the instrumental mixes of Never Gonna Let You Go (12" and 7") by Vicki Sue Robinson and Gordon Grody's 'Livin With You'. I think those are the only Warren Schatz RCA records where an instrumental version was put on the flip.

Disco Funk

[BrunoRepublic]

That 12" is insanely expensive on Ebay. I don't know if people are just buying it for Under The Skin, which I think is the same mix as on the LP, or the extended versions of Brothers Theme and Make Love, which is why I want to get it.

Now I *really* want this record! Those are my two favourite tracks from the album. Majestic, beautiful, uplifting, and groovy... everything disco should be.

[Disco Funk]

Now I *really* want this record! Those are my two favourite tracks from the album. Majestic, beautiful, uplifting, and groovy... everything disco should be.

Oh man, now I gotta compete against you too for that record?!!! :)

Disco Funk

[Mixmachine]

, there's the instrumental mixes of Never Gonna Let You Go (12" and 7") by Vicki Sue Robinson

Disco Funk

The US retail copy of "never gonna let you go" on 7" has "Daylight" on the flip, so the instrumental I see on another board must be from a "Promo" version or added to foreign releases like that Italian version that comes with a nice pic cover I'd never seen before and I can't find my copy of the 12" now to listen to the instrumental :icon_rolleyes:

Mr Schatz's Brothers also appear in a various artist RCA sampler "Disco Expectacular" from the film 'Hair', doing "Aquarius / Let The Sunshine in".

I'm also glad to see Mr Schatz around here, I've been spinning his music since the first exposure to his sound from Vicki(e) Sue Robinson's record (before she dropped the "E" )"Baby, now that I found you" (1975) a great Disco song with some 'shades' of Motown-- only on 7" AFAIK--- and Brother's "Are you ready for this"/ "Everybody loves a winner" on 7" (1975) --- never found the LP --- to Violla Wills' "The more I see you" (198_)and "If you leave me now" (1981) and everything else in between, including what I consider to be one of, if not "The" last Disco record at the closing of the era, (1983) "And I'm telling you I'm not going" by Koffie.

Thanks for all the great music:icon_cool:

[Disco Funk]

The US retail copy of "never gonna let you go" on 7" has "Daylight" on the flip, so the instrumental I see on another board must be from a "Promo" version or added to foreign releases like that Italian version that comes with a nice pic cover I'd never seen before and I can't find my copy of the 12" now to listen to the instrumental :icon_rolleyes:

I didn't realize that with the 7". I bought mine pretty cheap at a local record store a few years ago. I don't recall what pressing (country of origin) or if it was a promo. I just remember being excited when finding it, as it had the 3 minute or so version of the instrumental, and then being even more excited later when I discovered the 12" also had an instrumental mix, which was longer.

Mr Schatz's Brothers also appear in a various artist RCA sampler "Disco Expectacular" from the film 'Hair', doing "Aquarius / Let The Sunshine in".

Yeah, I should have mentioned that record. I don't think they stood out for me as the tracks done around '75 to '77. I'll have to check it out again.

Disco Funk

[schatzman]

Are the master tapes still around? I gather that the masters to a lot of things which have been long out-of-print are either lost in Raiders-of-the-Lost-Ark-like warehouses, and/or detoriating from sticky tape syndrome. Many of the reissue compilations use needle-drops, some better cleaned up than others. I took a look at Ben Liebrand's site and learned that they can't locate the masters for Amii Stewart's "Knock On Wood", and that sold millions!

I did up "Don't Stop Now" as an audio restoration project, but I've only ever been able to find the LP, and not the 12" versions. Being a completist, I usually add all the 12" and 7" mixes/edits if possible.

BMG has all the masters including the original 24trk 2" masters. I'd love to hear you restoration of "Don't Stop Now" Can you send me a CD? There was no difference in the 12" Version.

Warren

[schatzman]

Are you talking about that RCA album from '75? That thing is so hard to get because it's got some really great obscure funk, with artists like Hudson County and the break beat/rap anthem 'Cookies' by Brother Soul. I think it goes for a lot of money on Ebay if it ever appears on there (I haven't personally seen a copy). What inspired you to put together this record together and choose those obscure tracks, as opposed to filling it with Top 40 stuff?


I actually picked my user name before I heard about that album. I like disco and I like funk, so I just put the two together. It was a coincidence that it was the same as the compilation album. :)

Ah, that's why the Disco Soul LP, the packaging I mean, seemed of slightly lower quality. Nothing against you. I was just surprised that when I found a sealed copy, it didn't come with a sleeve and seemed to be put together (the physical record, not the music) like one of those K Tel LPs. I like Disco Soul, with my favorite cuts being Are You Ready For This (too bad you couldn't do a longer version of this, even though you did remake it on the Inner City Symphony record); and the cover version of Fire with that smokin' organ!

Did you also have a hand in the Disco Express records? The Disco Soul LP packaging was similar to those. Now those two DE records had some really great, rare disco. The tracks blend into each other, like on Disco Soul, which is why I wonder if you might have sequenced all three records.


I'm glad you mention David Todd. What was his role at RCA? I really liked his remixes of 'Express Yourself' by NYCC and the Faith Hope & Charity EP from Life Goes On, to name a few. His signature remix style was to strip everything away and let the drum track go. As someone who loves the sound of the drum, hearing his deconstruction mixes are a real treat.

That 'Don't Stop Now' record is just so amazing. I'm glad that Disco Soul was a success for you so you could make this classic disco record. Every song is a classic.

Could I pick your brain about some things about this record?
I noticed that you had two drummers playing on some tracks, if not all. How come you decided to do that, when most records usually just used one? And were they playing live together, or was the second drummer/ drum track dubbed later?

Also, was it your idea to have the bass to play such melodic grooves? I mean, if someone were to remake any of those tracks, they would have to replay the bass licks. Those riffs were just so funky!

I think the RCA catalogue is now owned by BMG? That's too bad some of your great RCA albums may never see the light of day on CD. I still haven't had a chance to hear the 12" remixes of Brothers Theme and Make Love because that EP record goes for $100 or more on Ebay! Did you do the remixes for those tracks, or were those David Todd remixes?

Thanks again for your wonderful inside Warren! It's great to have a funky disco legend right here in our midst! You're the original Disco Funk! :)

Thank you.
Disco Funk

I met a A guy named David who was US rep for Contempo (Armada Orch) and became intrigued with the Northern Soul thing. I was running the new york publishing office for RCA's Sunbry/Dunbar Music and needed activity to keep my job. This was way before compilations were a big deal and I licensed all these tracks for a straight royalty to the labels. Tried to get the best of what was out there.

There was no real Disco movement when I did Disco Soul. We had no idea. The art department put together their vision of what the culture was and i didn't know any better. Disco was just starting to buzz and once again I needed activity to keep my job. My background was as an engineer and producer of rock records but I was at the publishing company at the time and not taken seriously as a producer at RCA. Things were to change because of these dance records.

No. I had nothing to do with Disco Express. Never even saw it.


The two drummer thing was intentional and all live. Just wanted to experiment.

All three arrangers/composers are classically trained guys. Bhen Lanzarone is an incredible pianist and arranger, Mitch Farber is a master classical composer and Jazz arranger and George Andrews studied at University of Syracuse and ran the big band that became Blood Sweat & Tears. I wanted the Brother's albums to be classically slanted and very orchestral in nature. I think I picked the right guys. The only song that was really written by a funk guy was "Didn't Want To Hurt You Like That". It was written by my friend in "Hudson County"

Those aren't remixes. Right off the Album. I think I have a box in storage, Maybe I should make some money.

David Todd was always an inspiring man. One of the hardest working guy I knew

Wish I could say it was all intentional. I was just having fun spending making what I liked.

[Disco Funk]

Awesome information, Mr Schatz! Thanks taking the time to give your insight! You did Disco Soul back in 1974. We had a debate going around here regarding when the first disco song first appeared (i.e. when did the industry really know it was 'disco', as in a new genre, and not just dance club music). So it sounds like from what you said, even around early '74, people hadn't connected the dots, per se, and saw 'disco' as the new sound in pop music.

I thought the 12" versions of Make Love and Brothers Theme might have been different mixes because the running times are longer on that EP than on the LP. I believe Make Love is about a minute longer (5 something min. instead of 4 something min. on the LP) and Brothers Theme is a couple of minutes longer (7 instead of 5 min). Perhaps they were the same mixes, but they faded out later on the 12" versions? Either that, or they're misprints on the label. Under The Skin appears to be the same length on both EP and LP.

Yes, if you were to sell them, they'll get you some sweet cash. I haven't seen a copy go up on Ebay for a few months now, so that will drive up the demand.

Any plans to put your music from that era out onto CD or have them available for download via file sharing services like iTunes? How about some unreleased tracks or alternate takes from your Brothers and Inner City Symphony projects! ;)

Disco Funk

[djfunsko]

where can i find this record, or where can i download it, i have already try ebay.

Samba Soul - Chove Chuva/Mas Que Nada


The disco version.