Worst and Best Label for sound quality

**disco1999** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:19 AM

While we are into labels, my #1 choice for worst sound quality: Quality records of Canada, second mention would go to "Able records of Canada".

One of my most impressive dance recording in terms of sound quality, high output, bass, etc:
Mute records (UK): Depeche Mode - Behind the wheel (Shep Pettibone mix)

**Bernie** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:27 AM

For overall worst sound I would have to go with Casablanca. Ironic considering they offered the single-sided 12" which was supposed to result in superior sound.

Although not all their releases had bad sound (Costandinos) I just don't know what it was with them. I sometimes think it was the poor quality of the vinyl used to press their records and the fact that they tried to cram all their tracks on one side.

**markydefad** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:31 AM

Excuse me, what about AVI--the terminally scratched label. Take the plastic off, and play your new vinyl complete with pops, clicks, ticks, and hiss. Just like you bought it from a yardsale, ONLY BRAND NEW!!!!

**Bernie** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:33 AM

On 2002-08-03 12:31, markydefad wrote:
Excuse me, what about AVI--the terminally scratched label. Take the plastic off, and play your new vinyl complete with pops, clicks, ticks, and hiss. Just like you bought it from a yardsale, ONLY BRAND NEW!!!!

Okay, you got me! Forgot about AVI, but to be fair I didn't buy much of their output. Oh-oh, I hear Graham ready to go off on AVI-run awaaaaay.

**markydefad** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:34 AM

Actually, maybe AVI were ahead of the times--pioneering what the Hip-Hop crowd did in the 1990's--adding pops, click, and hiss to their CD's--so they'd seem "Ol Skool".

I had several CD's ready to take back to Tower Records, when I stopped and asked a friend if theirs sounded like that--and of course that was part of the production.

**california mike** · August 3rd, 2002, 05:34 PM

working in a record store during the disco era, i would have to say anything distributed by mca was usually noisy with clicks and pops, we got a lot of albums returned for exchanges. wasn't there a shortage of good vinyl at that time being a petroleum product? i do remember hearing old vinyl records being melted down to use the vinyl again. there were several times we saw small tiny fragments of old paper album labels that were part of the vinyl on the new pressings. the good old days.

**BrunoRepublic** · August 3rd, 2002, 07:55 PM

Worst? Lessee...

AVI had the worst vinyl and quality control, hands-down. In addition to using crappy regrind vinyl and frequently pressing one side off-center, they even cheaped out on the sleeves. Ironically, the mastering on most AVI releases is very good.

Casablanca could be pretty bad. The single-sided 12" with two tracks was just the height of stupidity, and completely defeated the whole point of the format.

Quality (who distributed countless disco labels in Canada) could be pretty bad. They also did Casablanca initially; you guys should hear how wretched "Get On The Funk Train" sounds during the last three minutes on Canadian copies.

Able were hit-and-miss. Some of their releases, like The Ritchie Family's "African Queens", are clear and crisp. Others are kinda muddy. Then there's RF's "American Generation", of which the Able copies have absolutely no bass.

Best? A&M probably had the best vinyl and mastering for the time, but they weren't a label known for disco. CBS could be reasonably decent. German or Japanese pressings of just about anything are excellent, but they're rather hard to come by in North America. :sad:

Bad vinyl I can (usually) cope with today, as I can clean a lot of it up with restoration tools. But nothing can salvage damage caused by shoddy mastering. Most Pye UK records have massive amounts of sloppy compression on them, and there's no practical way to fix that.

**paul** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:09 PM

Marky beat me to this. AVI hands down to me had the worst. I think they poor quality control. Crap on the vinyl was something I saw more than I should have.

**Robbie** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:14 PM

Bernie--

I agree with you about Casablanca having less-than-stellar sound quality towards the end of their records. I have Giorgio's "Knights In White Satin" LP and "I Wanna Funk With You Tonight" sounds horrible throughout, especially at the end. The same can also be said of the "Spring Affair" reprise on Donna Summer's "Four Seasons Of Love" album. It sounded lousy as well, and wouldn't you know it; it was the last track on the album. What was it about the last tracks on Side 2 of Casablanca albums that sounded this way??

I'll also give a nod to Metropolis' "I Love N.Y." on Salsoul Vol. 3&4 compilation CD. The quality towards the end is horrible, and I mean horrible. Muffled to the core, and hissy too. Was this on the 12" as well??

**markydefad** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:17 PM

It's funny cause my first experience with crappy AVI vinyl happened--NOT with DISCO--but with an early LP by jazz pianist David Benoit. It just sounded like I poured milk on my Rice Krispies.

I agree with California Mike about MCA, also having lousy vinyl.

I agree with Graham about A&M most always sounding good and Columbia/Epic too.

I remember having problems with Atlantic--one Bette Midler LP "Broken Blossoms" I took back to the store several times and it STILL sounded lousy. When I moved in with a boyfriend, I was amazed that HIS COPY sounded crappy too. Maybe SF got a bad batch??? Hmmmm.....

**NickNack** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:26 PM

Worst: AVI, hands down. I used to dread when I knew it was time to play one of the James Wells 12"s. The pressings were sooo low. And to this day, the 12" of "Cocomotion" remains one of the very few records I can't track on the turntable.

Best: TK/Marlin always sounded good to me. I would give props to Columbia if they hadn't done such a shitty job on Streisand's 12" of "Shake Me, Wake Me". It sounds like they put it through a 'shaver' before distribution. No clarity at all. How could they screw this up and yet work magic with all the Simon & Garfunkel productions?

_________________
When you're under the Love Spell, be sure to Catch The Rhythm

Nicky

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NickNack on 2002-08-03 21:27 ]</font>

**paul** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:33 PM

Oops. Neglected to mention my best experience.
20th Century and Tamla.

**BrunoRepublic** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:37 PM

On 2002-08-03 21:26, NickNack wrote:
Worst: AVI, hands down. I used to dread when I knew it was time to play one of the James Wells 12"s. The pressings were sooo low. And to this day, the 12" of "Cocomotion" remains one of the very few records I can't track on the turntable.

The irony is that you say the James Wells were cut too low, but the problem with Cocomotion '79 is that the peaks on it are seriously LOUD. I can still bitch about that one though -- the first copy I bought of that was one of only two records that defeated any attempt to restore them. I guess it came from a reeeaally bad batch of vinyl, because it had massive amounts of crackle that alternated between both channels throughout the entire disc. Yet the record looks flawless to the eye.

**BrunoRepublic** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:40 PM

On 2002-08-03 21:33, paul wrote:
Oops. Neglected to mention my best experience.
20th Century and Tamla.

YES! US copies of 20th Century records are excellent. I found a sealed copy of "Brazil" by The Ritchie Family, and it is sonic excellence. Ditto the few Barry White US copies I've been able to dig up.

US Polydor copies have only so-so vinyl, but awesome mastering. Unfortunately, this cannot be said for their Canadian counterparts.

**BrunoRepublic** · August 3rd, 2002, 08:41 PM

On 2002-08-03 21:17, markydefad wrote:
It's funny cause my first experience with crappy AVI vinyl happened--NOT with DISCO--but with an early LP by jazz pianist David Benoit. It just sounded like I poured milk on my Rice Krispies.

Hey Marky,

If you still have this record, I'd like to give it a shot.

**The Lord of Flatbush** · August 3rd, 2002, 11:41 PM

On 2002-08-03 12:33, Bernie wrote:

On 2002-08-03 12:31, markydefad wrote:
Excuse me, what about AVI--the terminally scratched label. Take the plastic off, and play your new vinyl complete with pops, clicks, ticks, and hiss. Just like you bought it from a yardsale, ONLY BRAND NEW!!!!

Okay, you got me! Forgot about AVI, but to be fair I didn't buy much of their output. Oh-oh, I hear Graham ready to go off on AVI-run awaaaaay.

I must agree with both of you. AVI with its pops, clicks and nicks on the grooves are bad indeed. Honorable mention goes to Solar Records for its 12" remixes in comparison to the original LP mixes. As I mentioned in another post before toward another subject, certain labels should've left their original mixes alone. As far as the best label, I must leave it in the hands of Salsoul, Prelude and West End Records. Most of those three labels provided classic, hit records.

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THE BEST, KEPT SECRET IS OUT!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Lord of Flatbush on 2002-08-04 00:43 ]</font>

**california mike** · August 4th, 2002, 10:03 AM

i need to know more about the barbra streisand 12 inch mentioned above.
one of my favorite barbra streisand albums is still 1975's "lazy afternoon", it is such a good album. one of my favorite cuts was the dance (disco?) re-make of the four tops "shake me, wake me". moving on, in the early 80's while in a used record shop, came across a white label 45 promo of "shake me, wake me" and noticed it was an extended version! i think it was around 5:35? being from 1975, never had any thought to possibly thinking there could be a 12 inch single, from columbia, on a pop artist, a good two years before the "saturday night fever" era. so what is the length of your 12 inch single.

**Giovanni** · August 4th, 2002, 10:56 AM

Everyone here agree on AVI. No doubt about it.

Even worst those indie label out of the Bronx.... P&P, GOLDEN FLAMING, and, mostly, PAUL WINLEY.

And what about the first Chicago house pressings?? TRAX was a nightmare!!!!!

**Boodikka** · August 4th, 2002, 01:48 PM

AVI of course, and Butterfly. Butterfly released great music.....too bad you could never anything on the vinyl with the low volume. Were AVI and Butterfly affiliated in any way?

**markydefad** · August 4th, 2002, 02:14 PM

I always thought there was a connection between AVI and Butterfly Records, BUT, I'm not sure.

Butterfly was located at 9000 Sunset Blvd. across from the Roxy on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood. AVI was at 7060 Hollywood Blvd. at LaBrea, a couple blocks west of Grauman's Chinese Theater.

In the liner notes of "The Best of AVI Records" I found some amusing info. It was found by LIBERACE'S MANAGER, Seymour Heller, Ed Cobb, the writer of "Tainted Love" and producer Roy Harris. Their first release was El Coco's "Cocomotion" followed quickly by "Mondo Disco". The international flavor continued with Le Pamplemousse and "Le Spank". British DJ Ian Levine produced high energy selections by Eastbound Expressway, James Wells, and Seventh Avenue. Donna Summer's bassist, Gary Unwin, produced Dee D. Jackson's "Automatic Lover".

Now I know why I always had an aversion to this label!!!!! LIBERACE'S MANAGER, for gawd's sake, founded it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

**markydefad** · August 4th, 2002, 02:20 PM

On 2002-08-04 11:03, california mike wrote:
i need to know more about the barbra streisand 12 inch mentioned above.
one of my favorite barbra streisand albums is still 1975's "lazy afternoon", it is such a good album. one of my favorite cuts was the dance (disco?) re-make of the four tops "shake me, wake me". moving on, in the early 80's while in a used record shop, came across a white label 45 promo of "shake me, wake me" and noticed it was an extended version! i think it was around 5:35? being from 1975, never had any thought to possibly thinking there could be a 12 inch single, from columbia, on a pop artist, a good two years before the "saturday night fever" era. so what is the length of your 12 inch single.

California Mike,

I, too, only knew the LP version of "Shake Me, Wake Me (When It's Over)" by Babs. I discovered the Disco Mix version on Napster one day. I've never seen the 12"--BUT if I remember correctly from what I downloaded--it was around 4:30 in length, sorta like what they did with Bette Midler's "extended mix" of "Strangers In the Night". Not a major remix-just some extended instrumental parts.

Nicky, correct me if I'm guilty of "False Memory Syndrome". My Napster files are at work, so I can't check.

**Mixmachine** · August 4th, 2002, 08:30 PM

I would agree that AVI, Butterfly and P&P are some of the worst labels; I used to fear mixing any “butterfly” vinyl, ‘Miami Heatwave/New York ‘s on fire” on AVI was another hit with that constant background crackle noise.
I just discovered on Ebay for the first time a ‘Paul Winley’ record, I had never seen this label before, apparently they are collectors item because it sold for $100.00, the song was "who is he and what it’s he to you” by Created Source, which I didn’t know existed on 12” to begin with, any one knows any other hits released on this label?

By the way, I had my AVI batch handy and just played my 12” copy of “ Life is like a Samba” by David Benoit (produced by Rinder & Lewis) and is not to bad, a bit ‘bass’ heavy but nothing like many other AVI’s.

**markydefad** · August 4th, 2002, 10:58 PM

Mixmachine,

"Who Is He And What Is He To You" by Creative Source was released on Sussex Records (#509) in late 1973. It peaked on the R&B charts at #21 and #69 on the Pop charts.

The song was written and originally recorded by Bill Withers.

I recently found the full 11:45 version on "Classic Funk Mastercuts voume 1" an English release from 1992.

**Mixmachine** · August 5th, 2002, 08:16 AM

Markydefad,

thanks for the info, I’m going to try to find that CD, I only have the 7” version on Sussex and learned of the long version here, but apparently the 12” long version was first released on a ‘Paul Winley’ label, that has poor quality according to what I read here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=896199366&rd=

**Blaxman** · August 5th, 2002, 08:22 AM

The label with best sound quality to me is Prelude (listen to Bobby Thurston records, just perfect).

The worst, Hugo & Luigi. Listen to the terrible sound of Van McCoy's records!!

BTW, I love Van McCoy's music, it's just about the sound quality.

Peace