Last Dance versions help (7.17 mix?)

[EricHG23]

This came up on the Donna Summer forum and has come up there before with never a clear answer so I hoped someone could help.

We all know Last Dance was produced by moroder with more than a little help by Bob Esty in 1977 before the Once Upon a Time album but released after.

Now here's the thing. How many mixes are there?

There was the 3 minute and a bit single mix which I find a tragedy--barely leaves only 1:30 mins of dance music.

On the TGIF soundtrack you have the "encore" at the end which is basically this single version and earlier, a much longe rversion. Here's where the confusion comes.

The vinyl editions of TGIF listed the logn version as 7:17 mins. However the CD reissue (both the single and double reissue) used the 8:08 12" version previously released as a single and on the Dance Collection. This version was remixed, apparantly, by Marc P Simon and Bob Guttadaro (i think) although I can't hear a huge difference, but many claim they can.

HOWEVER there's also a version, first used it seems on the On the Radio GH album that runs just under 5 minutes and is a pretty good version, complete with some vocal adlibs not in the 12".

Ok the confusion is on the Donna forum many of us have the vinyl TGIF soundtrack but have played it along with the CD 12" and they match up *exactly*. IE the album timing is wrong.

Some have claimed that early pressings of the album had a different 7 mintue mix and later ones had the 8 minute one--though I have 4 copies of the vinyl (i know...) from different countries and they're all the 12". And no one's been able to find an mp3 or make an mp3 of this 7:17 mix.

Anyone know the story?

[in-the-groove]

Hi Eric,

Not sure if this helps resolve the question, but here is what I know:

I am aware of 2 different US pressings of the TGIF lp... first pressings have the original, non-electronic version of Diana Ross' Lovin', Livin' & Givin' while second pressings have the electronic version (which was also released on the Motown commercial 12").

The label on my second pressing TGIF lp says that Last Dance has a running time of 6:58 (not 7:17); the label running time on the US promo 12" is 8:10. I synched up the lp and 12" on my turntables and both versions are the same length, which according to my stopwatch is about 8:10. So you are right about the lp being mislabeled.

Normally when the audio content on a vinyl record has been revised after it has been released, you will see something in the trailoff vinyl which indicates this has been done... usually (at least in the US), they use "RE 1" to indicate that revised master #1 is being used. Side 4 of my second press lp is etched "RE 1", indicating that the Diana Ross track has been changed from the non-electronic version to the electronic version. I remember discovering the alternate pressing back in '78, shortly after the lp was issued. The club I was playing in had 2 copies of the TGIF lp. I was running out of time on the song that was playing so I quickly threw the lp without enough time to preview it in the headphones. I thought I was gonna hear that synthesizer intro of the version I had always played, but.... YIKES! :o This cheese-ball orchestrated version came on and it completely cleared the floor. :evil: What a piece of shite that first version was. Sorry to digress!

Sooo.... if the first pressing featured a different mix of Last Dance, side 1 on my second pressing should be etched with an "RE something" in the trailoff vinyl. It is not. Only side 4 with the Diana Ross remix shows a revision marking. This tells me that first and second pressings of the U.S. TGIF lp featured the 8:10 mix and that it is incorrectly labeled as 6:58.

It is very possible that this confusion arose from the mislabeling... or there could possibly be a later US pressing (not sure one was made, but possible). Or there could be a foreign pressing or a CD reissue with this mystery mix. While this does not answer your question, I think you can rule out first and second US vinyl pressings.

Hope this helps!

Kevin
in-the-groove

[BrunoRepublic]

To make matters even more confusing, someone at the Steve Hoffman forums recently mentioned that they have an acetate of an unreleased mix of "Last Dance".

[remicks]

*****

HOWEVER there's also a version, first used it seems on the On the Radio GH album that runs just under 5 minutes and is a pretty good version, complete with some vocal adlibs not in the 12".

I'm curious about this . I'll have to keep my eyes open for my ON THE RADIO LP . 8)

I quickly threw the lp without enough time to preview it in the headphones. I thought I was gonna hear that synthesizer intro of the version I had always played, but.... YIKES! This cheese-ball orchestrated version came on and it completely cleared the floor. What a piece of shite that first version was

This is quite funny !! :lol:

*****

[EricHG23]

Funny I had heard about some pressings having the early version of Lovin' Living and givin' (doubly odd as I think the movie only has the I Feel Love version).

But nice - or reassuring anyway--that others have the same thing with last Dance as me. On the Donna forum there's much debate over the strength of Guttarado's mix which I frankly only notice to be diff when I try to synch up the with the 5 minute version and compared directly.

Remicks the 5 minute OTRadio version is fairly easy to find on some of her compilations in remastered sound--it's on the 1993 Anthology as well as last year's Donna Summer Gold (get the UK edition fo you can with the rarer remastered Theme from the Deep)--it's my fave version largely due to the ennergy and those adlibs.

As for Bob Esty's involvement interestign his name is listed as co producer on the original pressings (including the 12" label picture on this site) but now it's usuallycredited to Moroder and Belotte--prob a mix up. I found this from Bob online:

"I met Giorgio Moroder when I did "Last Dance" (summer of 1977). Neil Bogart (president of Casablanca Records) was the force behind doing the song. He thought it was a "hit".
Paul Jabara had "trapped" Donna in a bathroom in Puerto Rico to make her listen to the song idea. She said OK, and Paul and I finished the song and I developed the way the song was to be done: slow intro, fast, then slow again, then fast. It was to be the first time to my knowledge a disco track did this.
Giorgio was initially against the song because it wasn't his, and, vocally, Donna would be singing "full voice" (not high and breathy). This was not like "I Feel Love" and the other previous tracks. Also, we were to use a full orchestral arrangement, not electronic.

We recorded the entire track in one day at Record Plant. Giorgio was not involved in the recording of the track except we had Jurgen Koppers (his engineer) at the console. Mr. Moroder was present at the end of the instrumental session when Donna sang her vocal (2 times only, as was her habit). Donna and I had made a "demo" of the entire full length version with piano and voice, so she knew the arrangement and the song before the vocal session.
I mixed the song with Bob Stone at Larrabee Studios and it was done. After hearing the final product, Giorgio asked me to arrange "Once Upon A Time". This double LP was released before "Last Dance" because the movie "Thank God It's Friday" came out some months later. "

[Disco Funk]

There is another version of the song - the one she sings in the movie! Live vocals. I wonder if it will be mixed in stereo on the DVD or just an old mono.

Disco Funk

[EricHG23]

There is another version of the song - the one she sings in the movie! Live vocals. I wonder if it will be mixed in stereo on the DVD or just an old mono.

Disco Funk

Right I don't remember this but apparantlyt he music doesn't quite synch up in parts--still fun to hear

[Westwood]

I love these talks and legends about lost mixes.
Where is this DOnna Summer forum??
thanksss

[Disco Funk]

I should ask this - That rawer mix of Lovin Livin Givin by Diana Ross - has that shown up on CD? Maybe on her Deluxe Diana CD set?

Disco Funk

[EricHG23]

Deluxe Diana has ANOThER mix of the synth Lovin, Living, etc--but not the non synth one. Though i think that made it to SOME cd as I've heard cd quality versions of it.

The donna forum is http://forums.delphiforums.com/endless_summer/

E

[Westwood]

Diana's early LLL I don't think is on any cd. I remember it was discussed as late as when the Deluxe Diana came out before the Motown board was shut down (any news when it's coming back on???). There is an explanation on her Motown Anthology 2CD set (great one btw) of the genesis of the song, and a version of it. I shall dig it up and read the liner notes again.
Thanks for the link to the Summer forum.

[neonlights]

The version of "Lovin' Livin' and Givin'" on her Motown Anthology CD is labeled the "Previously Unreleased Unedited 'TGIF' Mix" so in other words I guess, an alternate mix of that "rawer" original version..

[Disco Funk]

I checked out an audio sample of that CD's version and yup, no synths. And it sounds waaaaaaaay better!

Disco Funk

[Westwood]

Heheeee, well I just dug up my two copies of TGIF 3LP. Last night I listented a moment to the LLG on the Diana Deluxe CD (which I have not played yet) and I definitely have never heard it, I was amazed by how coooool it sounds lol.
Anyway, I then played the verision on Diana'd Motown Anthology which is the one I remembered, which I had taped form the first TGIF set I had bought on eBay years ago. I was already pretty sure that it meant I had a first pressin of the album and I just took both out and yep, the first one does not read RE1 on the runout groove and the second one does, yeeeehaaaa.
Also I noticed the first pressing is 3.30 long (at least on the label) while the second one 4.39 I think.
Man there is also a double sided info memorabilia sheet inside lol! There were pendants with TGIF and Thank God It's Friday , they are fab fab fab, I wonder if I can track those down, anyone here has them or even seen them? Is there a way for me to put the scan of this on the site so you can see it?
Well I can't imagine the first version would clear the floor but then again the second one is a totally different version and definitely very modern and Moroder-ish. Can't believe I had never heard it.

[Westwood]

I have just taken a look at eBay and there are loads of pendants on there but they are not the original ones at all.
For those interested, one of the originals is like this: TGIF with the original font all fused together in silver, and the other one is THANK (like the first one) with GOD, ITS and FRIDAY fused together but each "word" below the other, as I said very cool and very hip by today's stadards :-)

[Disco Funk]

I dug out my vinyl copy of TGIF, which I bought just over a decade ago. I never really listened to it because I came across the CD soon after. Plus I was annoyed that 2 of the sides (B and C) were in mono. It sounds it was accidentally pressed with one channel of the source filling out the two channels on the vinyl, rather than a downmix.

My copy lists 'Last Dance' at 7.10, but after timing it, it's 7.55, so it's close to the 8.10 running time.

Also, the version of Lovin Livin and Givin has the synths, so its not the earlier pressing.

What a crazy pressing. They must have modified it 3 or 4 times before they got it 'right', and by then the disco craze had ended! :)

Disco Funk

[EricHG23]

2 full sides are mono? man that's bad! I thought it was embarassing that the bad girls Deluxe reissue used a mono take on Walk away 12" but ya...

So have we basically decided there never was a 7:17 take of this song and there are the radio edit, the 5 min On the Radio version witht he adlibs and then the 8:08 remix/12"?

E