BORIS MIDNEY... THE FUNKY RUSSIAN...WHO KNEW?"FESTIVAL&

[discodisco]

As a teenager I remember hearing "USA EUROPEAN CONNECTION"...And I loved it...Who Knew that the guy was from Russia? blows me away...What about "FESTIVAL" ARGENTINA...Great Stuff...Now whaen i tell my fellow musician s that are russian...from my russian gig in Brooklyn...they r truly impressed... Love "BEAUTIFUL BEND"...

[QUINNY]

For some of us, he was the absolute Disco (as in Black, funky, groovy, latin, swinging) anti-christ. If any one person gave Disco a bad name.....I reckon he'd be at the front of the queue. After all is said and done, he was a WHITE Russian....and it showed. Boy, did it show. Cold, mechanical, repetitive, fifth-rate quasi-Classical music for the 1970s, that didn't belong on a dancefloor. It was conveyor belt, elevator musak.

Nearly all the Europeans lacked one essential ingredient.....Black credentials. Without any of that musical heritage, their product sounded lifeless. For some inexplicable reason, they had heard strings and backing vocalists embellishing soul, funk and Disco records and thought that's all it took to make it plausible. Whereas most all American Disco records had a modicum of attitude or earthiness, nearly all the European attempts converted those ingredients into pure saccharin sweetness and missed the mark by a country mile. Only yesterday I was listening to Get On The Funk Train by Munich Machine. The first few minutes, although corny, do have a certain funkiness to them which (artificially) builds nicely, then the chicks start cooing and the whole vibe is lost in a flash. Cerrone, Voyage, Midney and others are all guilty of exactly the same thing. It's as if they were entering unknown territory and suddenly bottled out taking it to a new possibly exciting place, instead reverting back to tried and tested, safe territory. I guess they had a comfort zone and couldn't (or wouldn't) break out of it.

I guess that'll upset some of you, but I don't give a damn. IMO, Midney was the absolute pits and I really wish he was less worshipped!!!! He didn't deserve it, especially for tracks like 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina', which I've only ever played a few times and felt distinctly nauseous on each occasion.

Give me a break.

[Disco Funk]

I've enjoyed the USA European Connection album the best. The bass on Baby Love was played by funky Philly bassist Raymond Earl of Instant Funk.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

******

For some of us, he was the absolute Disco (as in Black, funky, groovy, latin, swinging) anti-christ. If any one person gave Disco a bad name.....I reckon he'd be at the front of the queue.
For Cerrone, Voyage, Midney and others are all guilty of exactly the same thing. .

:o :o the disco anti-Christ??? :o :P

ReallY ??? !!!!
Who are these " some of us" s you are referring to Quinny ??? I have never heard this from anyone ever .... not once never ...... and I've been around a looooong time :P

Nearly all the Europeans lacked one essential ingredient .....Black credentials

This is also the first time I've ever heard that black credentials were an " essential " ingredient for disco ...... :P :P :P OMG , instantly , thirty years later .... a good chunk of my disco collection .... turns out not to be disco after all. Damn , and some of them were my favorites too :cry: ......... :lol: :lol:

*****

[Saint Trocadero]

Quinny,

I am quite disturbed by your comments. Are you alluding to the idea that Whites couldn't partake in anything disco because of their race only? Very meaningless and left-handed on your part.

For someone who loves many sub-genres of disco, the European side showed that there were many colors in the disco rainbow to offer. As much as the "Philly" sound of disco was integral to its success in the early days, you cannot argue the fact that its sound was predictable and wearing thin by 1977, the year Eurodisco officially broke out. Same sound and melody, and as much as I dislike the music critics of the day calling disco "formulaic" and "boring", I can't help but wonder if perhaps they were right in some respects.

Boris Midney's contributiuon to disco was just as important as Donna Summer's or The Trammps'. His inclusion of Russian-style melodies and the slow, hypnotic trance-like sound he wrapped himself in and around was the perfect compliment to Cerrone's liquid stylings, Alec Constandinos' epics, and Giorgio Moroder's groundbreaking electronics.

For a genre which apparently was intended to break barriers, you certainly seem to want to keep those barriers up.

[nrgbeat]

Gee and I could have sworn one had to be gay in order to create good disco music.

Mea culpa

[Videoskooter]

Quinny, I am quite disturbed by your comments

Please don't be :lol: We all knew Q-man very well. Every time someone mentions Midney, Costandinos or Cerrone on this board, he thinks he has to save the world and re-educate us fools.

Disco is a science and he is one of the professors. DJ's who play more than three minutes of a track are suspicious in his eyes and if he decides something is not Disco, so be it! As if we have to apologize for the records we like :o The big three are loved by many of us here and 1 guy won't change that

I know one thing for sure: I won't go to a club where he is playing. I don't enjoy myself when a master is playing excerpts from some records to prove how well he can mix and what a hoppa-party he can give. But I know I will have a great time when the Euro-DJ's like Discolady, Jussik and others here are controlling the wheels of steel.

So, Saint Trocadero, welcome to the board and don't be afraid to come forward with your info or opinion!

[Videoskooter]

instantly , thirty years later .... a good chunk of my disco collection .... turns out not to be disco after all. Damn , and some of them were my favorites too :cry: ......... :lol: :lol: [

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[BrunoRepublic]

How about we compromise and say that real disco only came from gay black hispanic Americans living in Europe?

[Saint Trocadero]

Thank you for the welcome, Videoskooter.

[Svend]

This is a very interesting topic, in all its endless permutations. Quinny writes well, feels passionately (and I can respect that), and I must say that I agree with him in part.

It is my opinion that Boris Midney produced some amazing records (USA/Euro 1 and 2, Beautiful Bend) but he also produced some real crap (I can't stand "Pinocchio" or Double Discovery). And I also must admit that, even on his best records, Boris Midney and the funk were relative strangers. However, to me soulfulness is not confined to funk rhythms, gospel shouting, popping basslines, etc. Soulfulness is in any music that moves the listener or the dancer. The best of Boris Midney, Costandinos and the other Europeans, does move me--it makes me want to dance because of the beauty of the melody, the changes, the momentum, and the inventive orchestration. Likewise, "Pinocchio" does not move me because I do not find it inventive or beautiful. And I would like "Get On the Funk Train" a lot more if the whispered cooings were replaced by Martha Wash.

Europeans don't have the same cultural heritage that Americans have, so naturally their interpretation of disco is going to be different. The more dominant heritage there is classical and folk music, both of which obviously influenced the Eurodisco people. I think Midney, Costandinos, etc., might have fared better with critics if they had stopped (or slowed down) before they ran out of invention, inspiration, sincerity.

I always try to remind myself that what we are talking about is not world peace or feeding the hungry (moral questions) but various forms of pop music, and to me all likes/dislikes are valid no matter what anyone else has to say about them.

[Videoskooter]

Soulfulness is in any music that moves the listener or the dancer

That's 100% right Svend, but that's exactly the part Quinny will not accept.

The three Europroducers are worthless in his almighty opinion and he doesn't skip a chance to ridiculise them. You, I, maybe most of us here have never said that EVERY track by the 3 is heavenly. Cerrone, f.i. has created tremendous classics but he has also released many uninteresting stuff. So has Boris Midney.

But to say that they are not Disco, that they are pathetic wankers (that's what he means, believe me) is a little bit over the top.

Certainly coming from a guy that, when his opinion is attacked, accuses other members of giving low punches. Then he usually tries to counter them in his trademark sarcastic and self-indulgent way but seldomly succeeds.

When I owned my own radiostation I had a DJ from Birmingham that was exactly the same type. His choice was the only righteous one and only he knew how to give a party. His ratings however????

In fact, the reason why I replied in this topic was not so much to protect Midney but the fact that I like new fellow members and I don't want to see them chased away by Quinny's crusade (which already happened in the past).

And, yes, absolutely, he has the right to spread his opinion but Quinny's party ain't my party.

[NickNack]

Midney can "Make That Feeling Come Again", and again, and again.... :D :D :D

If you couldn't "Catch The Rhythm", you should have stayed off the dancefloor!

[Saint Trocadero]

On an additional note, Midney's music can "Come Into My Heart" whenever it wants and spread plenty of "Good Loving" and provide a lot of "Baby Love" while being under his "Love Spell".

[QUINNY]

Soulfulness is in any music that moves the listener or the dancer.

I can only partly agree with this. Sure, Soul can be found in some unlikely places, but it's not to be confused with emotion. Music is meant to elicit an emotional response and Midney's music obviously does that for many of you. However, if the above quote by Svend is correct, then we'd suddenly have to re-classify most of the music that's ever been written and made, as Soul. Patently, that is a farcical notion.

If I take time out to ridiculise Midney, Cerrone et al, it's because I can't, for the life of me understand, why anyone in their right mind would find their music appealing or heavens forbid, great, brilliant, superb (insert own OTT expression). I personally don't believe that Midney did anything, per se, to further the cause of Disco music, if like me, you believe that the best Disco music was a part of the progression of Black American music. That's why I brought up the lack of Black music credentials. As an aside, I also like Jazz and there are parallels there. At present there is a glut of very good musicians, most of whom have been classically trained. If you put these musicians onto a stage and they gave a 'Jazz' performance, most people would be delighted with their playing, BUT a real jazz afficionado probably wouldn't be impressed. That's because they'd have more knowledge, more feel and more experience of listening only to Jazz and Jazz musicians. They'd be able to tell a dud from the real McCoy. To me (and most other DJs in the UK) Midney was a dud. Why? Probably 'cos outside the Black clubs in the U.S. A., we had more Black American music in our veins than any other part of the planet. We'd been dancing to Black American music for a long time before Disco came along. Most of Europe simply wasn't as well versed in the genre.

If you like him....great, but please let's not pretend that he was anything more than a little sideshow at a parallel fairground.

[remicks]

*****

If you like him....great, but please let's not pretend that he was anything more than a little sideshow at a parallel fairground.

Actually Quinny, I'd say it would be the UK DJs' (as you represent them ) limited approach to disco that was the odd sideshow .....not Boris Midney .

I'm sort of surprised by your position on this, discounting so much of the music that falls under the broad umbrella of disco music .... but it probably does have something to do with England's somewhat obsessive adulation of older American R&B . ( BTW .....did you ever personally consider just playing to the Northern Soul scene? :-? ) .

This focus does help explain why your preferences seem to be so ... shall we say ..... restrictive. That's too bad because by putting this needless qualitative requirement on what constitutes valid disco ........ you've siphoned off so much !! :(
To be sure that still leaves you with plenty ...because .... of course .....much of the good stuff did indeed evolve from the US soul scene . But probably as equal an amount of great disco did not .... the European , Canadaian , LA etc. stuff ... not to mention all the Latin input ... another major angle in all this ..... .

------
As far as Midney ..... maybe you've hit on something.... maybe indeed, because he wasn't as predispostioned (shackled) by the influences of American R&B he was able to come up with such a distinctive flavor in his music .... a flavor not to be faulted because of the sources for those distinctively unique ingredients ..... but rather savored because of them .....

I was the disco coordinator ( that was my :P title) for three record stores in Hawaii. ( one big one and two satellite stores) . I had to run between them and make sure stuff was getting properly displayed and stocked . There were the usual debates on where to file certain artists ... especially with this soul/disco /jazz thing . My solution was .... put it wherever you think the customer will be looking for it ... and although it was more work for them ( hee hee) .... that meant cross filing many artists like EW & F in two or more places.

But I can assure you of this : There were never any questions as to where to put Boris Midney or A. Costandinos. If there was any music that was clearly disco and undisputedly got placed in one section and one section only ( the disco section ) .... .... this was it.



"

I personally don't believe that Midney did anything, per se, to further the cause of Disco music, if like me, you believe that the best Disco music was a part of the progression of Black American music."

Once you've included the word "best" in your argument then it makes i more of a subjective matter of personal taste . ( I'd also ask you just exactly what was this "cause" of disco that was supposed to be furthered that Midney failed at? :-? ?? ) . But as far as this idea that disco has to be rooted in American R&B ..... well even the Godfather of Soul himself takes issue with you on that ...

In the section discussing disco in his GODFATHER OF SOUL autobiography he reflects on his touring Germany in 1971 .... where he there first witnessed these nightclubs dedicated to dancing strictly to records and he called it "a whole new scene" . "It didn't worry me though. I didn't think it would make it across the water to America."

So there you have it .... no less than James Brown "the Godfather" :P himself distinguishing disco .... not as a derivative of R&B .... but rather as an entity all of its own born outside the American soul scene .

8) :D


*****

[Videoskooter]

Hey guys, you may be professional Dj's but I am a genuine showman and what we call sideshows is an exposition of something special, never seen before, extraordinary things :lol:

So IMHO Quinny is giving old Boris a major compliment. And BTW his records damn sure are D.I.S.C.O. Midney melts in your mouth, not in your hand. He even was one of the godfathers of modern trance and is recognised that way by many modern day's musicians.

(BTW, my family owned this one in the late 70's-that was 1 scary sideshow :lol: )

[discopsycho]

This is timely, since I just bought "The Boris Midney Anthology" on cd earlier this week. It is a 2 cd set, is remastered, and has the full album and/or 12' versions of his productions. I bought it at Tower.

I'm not really a fan myself, but I do like "Don't Cry For Me Argentina", so I decided to buy it. I was disappointed, however, in how this particular song just suddenly begins without a real intro. Was there no 12" of this song?

I have to say, I do find most of the music rather soulless and not very danceable, although I can see how others would enjoy it. I just don't envision myself working up a sweat to it.

[JussiK]

Paradise Garage, The Leviathan...went to a couple of discos that were frequented by quite a few black people, and BLIMEY!!, Midney tracks were indeed played there, just like they were at the Disco International of Oakland, California, where my black mates took me to do the boogie in July 1978. I must have been the only paleface at the Oakland club and we all had a blast. Evelyn Champagne King shrieking out SHAME!, Midney, Rick James, Grace Jones singing Do Or Die, War Dance by Kebelelektrik, "Black credentials" or not, the tunes sure worked all night long!

[Bernie]

Jussi,

You just reminded me of something that will make Quinny cringe: WBLS radio in New York-the meanest, baddest and blackest radio station with Frankie Crocker, used to play the entire 16+ minute "I've Found Love" by Alec R. Costandinos! Heck, I still remember hearing BLS play "Bicoastal" by Peter Allen.

NickNack told me of how Larry Levan started playing "Romeo & Juliet" Parts 1 & 2 at the Garage after having heard NickNack play it.

I sure wish some would stop creating these artificial walls of insolence. Music is to be shared and enjoyed. It's a secular thing. There are different styles and moods for every occasion. Pick and choose a few from each... They won't bite.

[stevieboy32808]

For some of us, he was the absolute Disco (as in Black, funky, groovy, latin, swinging) anti-christ. If any one person gave Disco a bad name.....I reckon he'd be at the front of the queue. After all is said and done, he was a WHITE Russian....and it showed. Boy, did it show. Cold, mechanical, repetitive, fifth-rate quasi-Classical music for the 1970s, that didn't belong on a dancefloor. It was conveyor belt, elevator musak.

Nearly all the Europeans lacked one essential ingredient.....Black credentials. Without any of that musical heritage, their product sounded lifeless. For some inexplicable reason, they had heard strings and backing vocalists embellishing soul, funk and Disco records and thought that's all it took to make it plausible........I guess that'll upset some of you, but I don't give a damn. IMO, Midney was the absolute pits and I really wish he was less worshipped!!!! He didn't deserve it, especially for tracks like 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina', which I've only ever played a few times and felt distinctly nauseous on each occasion.

Give me a break.

OH my god, you are so right on, brother man!!!! Great analysis.
*bows down*

[needlefingers]

[quote="QUINNY"]For some of us, he was the absolute Disco (as in Black, funky, groovy, latin, swinging) anti-christ. If any one person gave Disco a bad name.....I reckon he'd be at the front of the queue. After all is said and done, he was a WHITE Russian....and it showed. Boy, did it show.



You have to have a little Kahlua to make a White Russian.

[Videoskooter]

But....Midney WAS a black Russian!!!:roll:

[QUINNY]

Jussi,

You just reminded me of something that will make Quinny cringe: WBLS radio in New York-the meanest, baddest and blackest radio station with Frankie Crocker, used to play the entire 16+ minute "I've Found Love" by Alec R. Costandinos! Heck, I still remember hearing BLS play "Bicoastal" by Peter Allen.

When Disco ruled, the smell of greenbacks was the all powerful reasoning behind such decisions AND it was the sheep instinct that made all DJs play tunes 'cos they thought they 'ought to', no matter where they worked.

Jussi,
NickNack told me of how Larry Levan started playing "Romeo & Juliet" Parts 1 & 2 at the Garage after having heard NickNack play it.

Nick Nack had a lot to answer for! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[NickNack]

Nick Nack had a lot to answer for! :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: Excuse you, too. And just so we're clear... it was Larry in The Anvil asking me what I was playing, not me in The Garage asking him to play it. :o The wild horn rushes in 'Part 2' had him going.