Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
As I've never done any DJing & always wondered what it was like I recently bought some twin decks with mixing console & vari-speed etc.to see if I was any good b4 I attempted to get a public 'gig' (don't laugh) as I think it's important to have a go at anything interesting 'cos I don't want to end up in my 70s wishing I'd done things.......anyway getting back to the subject, all I can say is I'd like to apologise here & now if I've said anything unkind about DJs in the past. You guys are amazing! Not only do you bring all that music to the public's attention but you mix them together. I thought it would be such an easy thing to do as long as you had vari-speed - boy was I wrong. :o I can't believe how tricky it is to sync the beats so that 2 records mix together. When I hit those wheels of steel it's real train crash time! :oops: Now I know why DJs are obsessed with BPMs. I've got a long way to go I feel. :(
Chart Hit [Level 6]
Sandra!-Good for you! I also
did the same thing as you
years ago-I was a dancer who
loved to hear the"mix" of a good DJ-how
hard could it be? Thankfully,only myself and my
friends heard my "trainwreck"
mixes,but I got better with
practice.The 70's are a pain
in the @#$ to mix,but like you
it made me appreciate the DJ
so much more.If you can,find
anything mixed by Robbie Leslie grab it-he mixes classic
disco like no one else and he
makes it seem deceptively
effortless.
Thom
Platinum Record [Level 8]
I didn't realize how tough sync'ing records were myself until I tried it out during a brief radio station gig when I was in college. I hadn't had any practise beforehand, so for me it was really hit and miss. Sometimes I'd get it and sometimes it would go out of sync immediately. And those were house records, which of course are designed to be a consistent tempo for easy mixing. I can't imagine how tough it would be trying to sync up some old disco records where the drummer alters his tempo throughout the song.Originally Written by SandraDee
Disco Funk
No Longer Charting
To come to the defense of you guys, many '70s records are virtually impossible to beat mix for more than 2 or 4 bars. It was normally at the drum fills that tempii would wildly fluctuate (thus throwing a nicely synced mix completely out of the window) and then the following 8 bars might be up or down 1-5 BPM afterwards. So, unless one knew that a ceratin track was more or less rock solid and the incoming record was too, it was best to limit things or even do segues. In fact doing neat segues could be even more effective than beat mixing at times, but a break segued out of a break is never gonna sound as good as a well executed beat mix with all the overlayering going on.
Even such classic electronic trax like I Feel Love go badly out of time at irregular intervals (exacerbated by the delay echo on the programmed synths being non-aligned to the actual BPM of the track) and if you ever tried to mix the intro of Walking On Sunshine into anything, you'd tear your hair out, just like I used to.
However, I'd still say that a hour or two from someone who knows how to, would sort you out.
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
*****
You're points are right on Quinny .
Now .... lookiing back ....I think those early disco years were Andrea True fun because of the wide variety of song styles and tempos . Look at the songs that are now hitting Marky's '76 chart . The sultry , drunken intro to "LOVE HANGOVER" or that romantic piano intro before the horn announces the onslaught of the supercharged "THAT'S WHERE THE HAPPY PEOPLE GO " were so much a part of the joy of those records. They completely interupted the flow of the floor ...but so what ... people got off the floor .... went and had a drink .... went and found someone new to dance with , meanwhile the lights were lowered and the ambience of the club cooled for a bit . It was wonderful :D
As for me personally ..... I first started DJing on the radio ... playing disco ( including " BOOGIE FEVER " !!) .... segue waying on turntables with excellent torque but no speed control ..... I got really good at my slip cues .... add to that talking simulataneously over these segues at times , and cueing in ad carts and PA's and keeping track of the radio log ... heck just DJing in a club, with speed control no less, seemed a piece of cake. Well .... very luxuriously enjoyable anyway. And I'm not saying I was the greatest .... I was always in awe of the really good ones ....'cause I knew they were taking it to another level.
I'd even suggest that the BPM obesssion was another factor that hurt disco in the long run. When I DJd in Hawaii , I'd go back to SF .... to the Troc or I Beam .... then go back to Honolulu determined to DJ more like that ( emphasis on faster BPMs "High Energy" ... but I never assigned it that term ) . High Energy in laid back Hawaii !! :lol: :lol:
I can remember sometimes being approached by someone at the club wanting me to please play something like Michael Jackson 's " Workin' Night And Day" and I'd think, " Hell no ...I just got my BPM's up " .... In the long run ...I think this attitude and formatting hurt disco and turned some people off to it .... :(
*****
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
Personally speaking, the obsession these days with beat matching is entirely down to what a youngish crowd largely expects. It's not impossible with 1970's disco but if you atart a set at say 126 BPM, you soon run out of tunes or have to wildy speed up tracks which, IMHO, sound silly.
Personally, although depending to a degree on my audience I tend to segue the tracks & 'tell a story' through the different tracks. To get obsessed with ensuring the bass drum or cow bells continue for three hours at the same beat means (again IMHO) that you are not 'in touch' with your audience & playing to a formula.
Keep practicing though Sandra as you will soon begin to find it gets easier.
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
That's my DJ :lol: Although some are very skilled in this beatmixing I don't like the ones that play only a few minutes of each track.
I like to hear the entire song and then smoothly mixed into the next one. I do dig the style of Viteritti that I heard on some tapes. Too bad I never experienced those guys live. And I also missed Nicky's mixes. I thought I read once that he used to post them on the board.
Training and experience San and u will achieve your goal
No Longer Charting
Oh dear, you wouldn't have liked me then!!! I always viewed guys who played whole tracks as being rather lazy, but I now realise that I was being hyper! So 100 tracks in a 5 hour stint (as opposed to 30 ish) was inferior? I would have died of boredom, especially if the hot tracks just happened to be 15 minute suites.That's my DJ :lol: Although some are very skilled in this beatmixing I don't like the ones that play only a few minutes of each track.
I like to hear the entire song and then smoothly mixed into the next one.
As for telling a story........ please explain. Are we talking music or lyrics? For me each night was a voyage of discovery and I played what I felt. No two nights were ever exactly the same, but I could imagine story telling could get samey. I wonder if the story telling was simply in the ears of the beholder?
Gold Record [Level 7]
Well, Quinny, you are not along, I knew a few DJs like you BITD that liked to mix out of a song just when it was getting interesting, :lol: they were usually pulling their hairs at the end of the night when they ran out of good material to play for the crowd at hand and had to re-play the same songs again because they didn't pace themselves properly to captivate the crowd until night's end or as long as possible. :o
I was a complete opposite of you, as I usually had two copies of every hit and extended the heck out of just about every cut, no one ever complained and not even me knew if or what I was going to do during any particular set, if you call this lazy, well, I don't know, but I remember I was many times "spent" by the end of the night from the stress of it all....
I experienced "Telling a story" Djs a couple of times, and only in gay/mixed clubs during Sleaze sets, the story was told in some instances through the lyrics, but mostly you follow the song's title, of course the audience had to be very knowledgeable about the music to catch the "story", there fore this mixing style was not very wide spread as far as my experienced in my area or my travels leads me to believe, I remember how interesting it was to see and hear the patrons reactions when they stitched together the “story” as the mixes rolled in, although I also remember sometimes the "mix" was sacrificed for the sake of the "story", but still this approach was very unique and very hard for a DJ for sure, not only you have all the pressures of the ‘mix’ but you need to mix in a particular cut to continue the “story” that makes sense.As for telling a story........ please explain. Are we talking music or lyrics?
:o Talk about stress on the DJ booth
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Thanx for the advice & encouraging words guyz. I'll keep at it! :P
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
Q - No-one, especially me said it was inferior playing 100 tracks in 5 hours. I do get the impression though that in the 80's there was 'the need' to get through more music.....I too however find those 15 minute Disco suite records rather dull - I dug out USA/Euope Connection last night - I can't recall ever hearing it played in a Disco & I'm not surpised!!Oh dear, you wouldn't have liked me then!!! I always viewed guys who played whole tracks as being rather lazy, but I now realise that I was being hyper! So 100 tracks in a 5 hour stint (as opposed to 30 ish) was inferior? I would have died of boredom, especially if the hot tracks just happened to be 15 minute suites.
A (poor) example - Boogie on Down, Boogie on Up, Boogie Oogie Oogie, Jig A Boogie, Boogie in your Butt etc, etc...basically each tune following the last one would have some relavency to the previous tune.As for telling a story........ please explain. Are we talking music or lyrics? For me each night was a voyage of discovery and I played what I felt. No two nights were ever exactly the same, but I could imagine story telling could get samey. I wonder if the story telling was simply in the ears of the beholder?
No Longer Charting
Playing devil's advocate: I wonder if 'telling a story' was too smartassed for its own good? It almost smacks of a DJ who's really too bored for words and thinks it up just to relieve the tedium....an 'in joke' that backfires spectacularly. :D I always took it to mean a spiritual journey, rather than a tangible link with lyrics. Even then, I'm prepared to say that I regard the whole thing as a load of bollocks. Those DJs must have been super human, or on a plane at least 10 steps above the rest of us and I'm not prepared to believe 100% that such people really existed. Sure, many were very good, but they weren't that good. Maybe a figment of fuzzy, over stimulated, drug influenced minds.
Indie Release [Level 4]
Hi Sandra, there are not only disco dj "guyz" here !
Just practice, practice, trying to segue second time of the tempo with another one = the basis.
second time = boom pam boom pam boom pam, segue the "pam" together. this is the basis for any binary beat.
there re many technics to "catch it" manually, holdin on the record, then put it together with the second one while on air.
i ve been playing drums and it helped me to understand that. Another tip : listen to another mixes, look at other djs how they do, ask them.
Write to me, if u plan to come to Paris again ! I ll show you i taught to one of my collector friends > info@discolounge.net
-------
I agree about the "story telling": you re the most precious thing in my life / thunder in my heart / two hot for love / lets make love in public place ...
A.M.
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Discolady,
I hate to break the news but SandraDee is a DUDE...It's an "in" joke...but he's a guy.
If you see a post by PhyllisHyman...it's also a guy and not the dead diva.
Just keepin' it real. :D
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
oh ....Mar-key ! I think Discolady knows that and was just responding to the content from Dee's earlier comment
......OK... go ahead .... find the :oops: icon !!!
:P :P :lol:
*****
Triple Platinum Record [Level 10]
Oh. OK. nevermind!!! :P
Just wanted it out in the open --before Carnage starts hittin' on her/him. :P
The "ladies" names turn the "mens" on.....
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
*****
:lol:
Don't worry Carney never seems to make it over here to the disco topics ......for some strange reason :P ....... besides he's too committed to his wife, 'member? ....
*****
*** Forum Leader / Moderator ***
Hey guys, you don't think it's the return of an old friend do you? Hope this is not Joisy that's making a come-back or an adept of the Fantomas-cult :o
No Longer Charting
If by the above explanation, Discolady75 means segue to the off beats, then she has it all wrong. The only time one might do this is if you either have a record that starts with an off beat, or if you want to line up a segue where an intro is more or less instantaneously into the 'meat' of the track, be it vocals or a crescendo. Sorry, but this is NOT the way to mix or segue successfully on a day by day basis.
As explained in other threads, to mix successfully you have to realise that nearly all disco music is 4/4 beat (that is 4 beats to the bar, consisting of 'on' and 'off' beats) and has a regular sequence of bars. The 'on' beat is normally going to be the bass drum on its own and the 'off' beats will normally be a combination of the bass drum with the snare drum, so that you get the regular boom-thwack-boom-thwack of disco and funk music. In 90% of cases the bar sequences will be 8, or more likely, 16 bars long (i.e. 32 beats/64 beats where there are 4 beats to the bar). It's knowing this fundamental that is the whole secret to mixing and segueing. The other thing you must do is start to lay your incoming track at the beginning of one of these sequences ON THE FIRST BEAT so that the sequences of the two tracks are 'in step'. That is, both 8 or 16 bar sequences are fully aligned with each other. It's no good starting to beat mix if the incoming track is started on beat 7 of a sequence (remember these are 8 or 16 bars) and started on the outgoing track's beat 3. That way you'll end up with something horrible. If you're segueing, the reason why it's important to do it to the 'on' (first) beat is because all crescendos, horn stabs, violin figures, sound FX, vocals, changes in instrumentation or whatever that gives the track some life, are almost invariably going to start at the beginning of an 8 or 16 bar sequence, on the very first beat.
If I were starting out, I think I'd do two things.
1) write down the sequences in a track, noting what happens at each 8 or 16 bar sequence.
2) get two copies of a track and try to mix or segue the two together until it begins to sound right. You'll sooon know when it does. By doing this you'll be teaching yourself all the above points, some of them subconciously and you'll begin to gain a basic understanding of the elements.
Indie Release [Level 4]
hi Quinny, your explanation is too precised and "scientific" for someone who doesnt have the beat musical basis... I dont have too...
Of course, knowing about a song structure (intro / break/sequences/ beat differences..) is a must, and i consider it is acquired. Listening is enough, u just have to ear carefuly on parts on a 12" for example.
There are no science to lead on a party, beside the technique,
knowing how people are, taking their "temperature", watching how they react, put the right track at the right moment, holdin on the hotter moment of the night : driving the night with fast beat or sex about lyrics, putting a "popular" French hit knowing there s a French group on the crowd, putting a gay anthem (like i need a man of grace jones) for them, or for Lesbians (they sang very well at a party i did, it was very funny cos they didnt need anyone !) .
Then, the perfect seguing is the cherry on the cake (sorry it s the french translation), means if u can do it, this is the Disco "chef d'oeuvre".
U can play with the "one to one" beat, the breaks, the beatless intro, accapellas, instrumental final with intros, create you own techniques, etc... you can edit live with CD player now too... there s no limit. Of course, u have to know how to segue, to bring one record beat with another one. For that : listen and practice, the mix is in your head first, then your headphones, and finally on the air.
"Working and Slaving" for Djing
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
*****
8) 8) By George , I think she's got it ! 8) 8)
*****
Double Platinum Record [Level 9]
Aw thanx discolady. I promise to come to see u when i next visit gay Paree! :P
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