Disco snubs

**remicks** · November 19th, 2005, 10:44 AM

****

Truth be told ..... there was a bit of snubbery in the land of disco .... especially when it came down to reporting for the charts .
Major case in point : The abysmal representation of KC & The Sunshine Band. :oops: :oops:
Currently it is Johnny Taylor's "DISCO LADY " that is getting snubbed. Marky says it's going to get one week of charting ! There's just no way that song wasn't geting big time play in certain discos.

Another one I just noticed was the #1 soul hit ..."BOOGIE FEVER " by the Sylvers. This was a song specifically about having ... the boogie fever :roll: !!!!

Any others come to mind in this category of disrespected songs??

*****

**discokicks** · November 19th, 2005, 12:25 PM

I suppose any song that was viewed as too pop-oriented could have been snubbed by club djs. Sad to hear that this was the case even back then. It has been ridiculously prevalent over the past fifteen years or so of club dance music but I guess I naively thought that back in disco's heyday, it was all about fun and unity rather than image and being cool.

One obvious record that comes to mind would be 'Dancing Queen'. What was the majority of djs' opinions on that? Also, if 'Disco Lady' was snubbed, how did the Four Seasons' 'December 1963' fare?

**QUINNY** · November 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM

Originally Written by discokicks

I suppose any song that was viewed as too pop-oriented could have been snubbed by club djs. Sad to hear that this was the case even back then. It has been ridiculously prevalent over the past fifteen years or so of club dance music but I guess I naively thought that back in disco's heyday, it was all about fun and unity rather than image and being cool.

One obvious record that comes to mind would be 'Dancing Queen'. What was the majority of djs' opinions on that? Also, if 'Disco Lady' was snubbed, how did the Four Seasons' 'December 1963' fare?

Dancing Queen was absolute crap and I never played it, or any other ABBA toons, so far as I remember. Why would any self respecting disco DJ want to play ABBA, for goodness sake? They were pure pop.
Disco Lady was certainly played by me and others, but it never went down as well as its US chart position would have alluded to.
December '63 went down rather well on the mobile scene in the UK...not so sure it was played that much in discos, but I could be wrong.

**thommy2458** · November 19th, 2005, 08:24 PM

Remicks-You are right-there was some discrimination going
on.I do remember hearing
KC,Johnny Taylor and the Sylvers in clubs- though as
soon as radio started playing
them,they were deleted from
the DJ's playlist.Unfair,yes but
this was true of Donna Summer
and many more.Remember,though that
jocks would be playing these for months before radio would
pick up on them.
Thom

**remicks** · November 20th, 2005, 12:03 PM

*****

Originally Written by thommy2458

Remicks-You are right-there was some discrimination going
on.I do remember hearing
KC,Johnny Taylor and the Sylvers in clubs-.Remember,though that
jocks would be playing these for months before radio would
pick up on them.
Thom

I agree Thom ....but that doesn't explain why these songs barely charted on the disco chart if at all . That should have just resulted in them charting here first .

I belonged to the BADDA record pool for a time ..... BAY AREA DISCO DJ ASSOC. .... and I clearly remember them bemoaning the reporting from certain clubs. Because the pool tried to represent the entire Bay Area ... ( that was a mess in of itself , but that's another story ) ... they had members that were also DJing in places beyond SF ( I was DJ ing over in Oakland) .... areas like the South Bay ....Burlingame , Menlo Park ..etc. ... the more suburban settings ( where disco was happening too ... just not as intensely) .
Those guys would report something like "A FIFTH OF BEETHOVEN " on their lists and the pool really scoffed at their charts because it mucked up their cooler , cutting-edge image when reporting their DJ info. :x

*****

**discokicks** · November 20th, 2005, 01:07 PM

Originally Written by remicks

*****
Those guys would report something like "A FIFTH OF BEETHOVEN " on their lists and the pool really scoffed at their charts because it mucked up their cooler , cutting-edge image when reporting their DJ info. :x
*****

Guess that shows us how difficult it is to keep up 'appearances' in anything!

The problem here is, as it still exists today, being cool and remaining cool is a huge endeavour...one that simply is devastating for the individual who just wants to play good music to make his/her crowd move. The pressures on the dj to be hip and edgy is ridiculous but what really suffers is the musical artist who put in a lot of talent, time, money and expression to make a good tune only to have that effort snubbed because it doesn't fit in.

I suppose that's the risks one takes in exposing talent.

**markydefad** · November 21st, 2005, 03:39 PM

I love this topic!!! I wanna make a list of all the "not kewl enuf for the discos" disco records!!! :D

I first got copies of the old Billboard Disco charts a few years back. I received the whole package from late 1974-1984 and I spent many days and nights poring over the information. Because it was so ovewhelming, I didn't see the titles that weren't there until I started compiling the charts. The KC & the Sunshine Band "Get Down Tonight" debacle was amazing to me. I kept waiting for it to come back after it made a few tentative appearances...and it did a bit...just rarely in NYC....I recall this being THE DISCO RECORD IN THE SUMMER OF 1975 IN SAN FRANCISCO!!!! The Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" got a few mentions--but usually from cities in the heartland of America--not NYC or even LA. ("December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)" gets no disco chartings.) Some things were just considered "tooo pop" and they ended up as radio records. Granted, back then they did seem like radio records using the disco production techniques.

"A Fifth of Beethoven" is a great example cause it is gonna get a brief mention on the disco charts coming up--but will be a #1 Pop chart record. in the summer of '76...and then there's Johnnie Taylor's "Disco Lady" which is actually on the Disc-o-la Fortune 500 list--but gets only one week of Disco charting in Billboard!!!

Of all the individual charts, Downstairs Records does seem to be the most notorious for dropping anything once it gets too hot. Most titles get a month and they are sooooooo over. Put a fork in Andrea True--she's done. :evil: :x :P :roll:

So I do agree that the DJs/retailers were attempting to keep the Disco charts on the Kewl side and eliminate the un-kewl titles in their reporting. But ya know that if you danced outside of NYC--they probably played "Disco Lady" AND "A Fifth of Beethoven" AND ALL THE OTHER "RADIO DISCO" RECORDS!!! more than they played the more respected records of the time.

**remicks** · November 21st, 2005, 11:41 PM

*****

Well good Marky .... 'cause you're the chart guru and we'll rely on you to confirm which disco songs weren't kewl enough for disco ......

For instance ...I have a feeling Van McCoy's "THE HUSTLE " got the big snub ...... yes ??? :-?

*****

**Bernie** · November 22nd, 2005, 08:11 AM

Originally Written by remicks

For instance ...I have a feeling Van McCoy's "THE HUSTLE " got the big snub ...... yes ??? :-?

Remicks,

Funny you should mention this classic as being snubbed as I do believe it was since it was so popular. Even though I love it and consider it a cornerstone of Disco, I don't recall ever putting it on any compilation I have ever made. Shame on me!

Strangely enough though in a conversation I had with Laurin Rinder a few years back, he specifically mentions Van McCoy's "The Hustle" as having an "insipid" melody, but that it kept churning in his head and he couldn't get rid of it.

**QUINNY** · November 22nd, 2005, 08:45 AM

Originally Written by Bernie

Originally Written by remicks

For instance ...I have a feeling Van McCoy's "THE HUSTLE " got the big snub ...... yes ??? :-?

Remicks,

Strangely enough though in a conversation I had with Laurin Rinder a few years back, he specifically mentions Van McCoy's "The Hustle" as having an "insipid" melody, but that it kept churning in his head and he couldn't get rid of it.

I don't think it was shunned in the UK by disco DJs. We tended to keep hold of the big disco hits. Sure, the jocks out to make a name for themselves probably would have ditched it, but in general, no.

Laurin Rinder's quote is rich. He and his partner in crime, made some of the most insipid disco tracks ever made!!

**markydefad** · November 22nd, 2005, 12:15 PM

Originally Written by remicks

*****

Well good Marky .... 'cause you're the chart guru and we'll rely on you to confirm which disco songs weren't kewl enough for disco ......

For instance ...I have a feeling Van McCoy's "THE HUSTLE " got the big snub ...... yes ??? :-?

*****

well it didn't do so badly....

14) THE HUSTLE - Van McCoy & The Soul City Symphony
(Avco/1975) P: Van McCoy/Hugo & Luigi; W: V. McCoy
Timing: 4:06; BPM: approx. 110 bpm
Pop: #1 (1); R&B: #1 (1); Disc-o-la Fortune 500: #38 out of 500
45: A) The Hustle; B) Hey Girl, Come and Get It
Grammy Winner: Best Pop Instrumental (either pure inst. or with vocal coloring)
Grammy Nominee: Best Instrumental Compostion
CD Availability: "The Hustle & The Best Of Van McCoy"
A= 99; B= 71; C= 63; D= 119; E= 156; Total points = 508
19 weeks on the chart (4/19/75 - 8/23/75)/ 12 weeks in the Top 10/ Peak: #1 for 2 weeks

Chart E (Los Angeles/ San Diego) was the biggest fan---it was #1 for almost the whole summer of 1975...

**remicks** · November 22nd, 2005, 12:42 PM

*****

Here we go again :lol: ..... so when is a snub, a snub?

The songs that barely charted were total snubs obviously ...... but when a disco song goes #1 on Billboard's Hot 100 and #1 on Billboard's Soul Chart but can't even crack the TOP 10 on the disco chart !!! :roll: ...I'd call that a snub too ....

( a quasi-snub?)

Plus it got the "Bernie snub" and that's the worst offense of all !! :lol:

****

**discokicks** · November 22nd, 2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Written by markydefad

So I do agree that the DJs/retailers were attempting to keep the Disco charts on the Kewl side and eliminate the un-kewl titles in their reporting. But ya know that if you danced outside of NYC--they probably played "Disco Lady" AND "A Fifth of Beethoven" AND ALL THE OTHER "RADIO DISCO" RECORDS!!! more than they played the more respected records of the time.

Despite how cool a dj wants to be and play all the latest and greatest, the dj booth can be a lonely place if no one's on your dancefloor...and then there's nothing worse than someone coming up to the booth with that infamous line 'can you play something we know?' :lol:

I've always had a love for pop and dance charts but I think it was sometime in the late '80s that I started to finally clue in that the dance charts in magazines and stores didn't quite jive to what I'd actually hear in the clubs. I'd make these monthly trips to Toronto for music shopping, listen and pick up so many new 12"ers and then spend the night in the big city to dance to all these new tracks that were at the top of the club charts...only to be disappointed to find the music wasn't any newer (and sometimes much older) than what I was playing back home!

As I start to think about those definitive years of the mid to late 70's, I imagine there would be quite a change in how songs were tabulated as more club djs, especially those in more remote areas, started reporting. There would be the innocence of these smalltown djs reporting exactly what was going over in their clubs (before they started to lie as well :lol: )

It's all quite exciting to hear how the disco era was evolving with those charts!

**markydefad** · November 22nd, 2005, 01:01 PM

Originally Written by remicks

*****

Here we go again :lol: ..... so when is a snub, a snub?

The songs that barely charted were total snubs obviously ...... but when a disco song goes #1 on Billboard's Hot 100 and #1 on Billboard's Soul Chart but can't even crack the TOP 10 on the disco chart !!! :roll: ...I'd call that a snub too ....

( a quasi-snub?)

Plus it got the "Bernie snub" and that's the worst offense of all !! :lol:

****

remicks, I can't believe you this morning!!! Do you need to clean your glasses????

It was #14 for the year-end chart!!! It was #1 on my chart for 2 weeks. That's not too shabby.

Oh, wait [Emily Latella moment]...I'm thinking you're referring to "The Hustle" when in reality you mean "Disco Lady"? Is that what's goin' on???? In that case, "Never mind." :P :lol:

**remicks** · November 22nd, 2005, 01:47 PM

*****

:oops: :oops: I think i'm too preoccupied ...... don't have glasses but beter consider it I guess!! I was talking aout THE HUSTLE ...good grief ...... how come I don't know it was #1 on your charts ?? :oops: :roll:
OK ..never mind about "THE HUSTLE " ....not snubbed ! 8)

As for reporting and all that .. .....suffice it to say .... that the Billboard charts were not objective ...but I recall that one concern of just basing their positions on actual sales..... was that secondary markets like Dallas or Miami .... ( or any place smaller) would no longer matter because that magnitude of the sales in places like LA and NY would overpower them. All the labels needed was to be selling #1 there in order to be #1 nationally .... which wouldn't be a fair representation either .....

Buit no matter how screwy the charts at times ...there is much to be learned from them .....they tell more than they do not .... :)

*****

**remicks** · November 22nd, 2005, 01:59 PM

*****

OK .......this one got snubbed !!!! :P No doubt !! Probably deserved it too .... :P :D

Rick Dee's "DISCO DUCK "

..and while some felt it was mocking disco .... I thought it was kind of clever .....musically I think it's a good tune .... and if there had been a total instrumental ...... I think it might have even withstood the dancefloor test !!

*****
shake your tail feathers

**Videoskooter** · November 22nd, 2005, 02:06 PM

Originally Written by remicks

I think i'm too preoccupied

Too much sex Remicks! Take a break, read a book :lol: :lol: :lol:

"The Hustle" snubbed? It was immense in Europe, in da clubs and in da charts, and you can't buy a Disco compilation where this one is not included. You know who is snubbed here, my good buddies, Alec R. Costandinos and certainly Boris Midney. They didn't sell, they were not popular and those guys are the gods of Disco! It's all Quinny's fault :evil: That guy had too much influence :evil:

**markydefad** · November 22nd, 2005, 02:27 PM

Snubbed: (1975 year-end chart)

76) WHAT AM I GONNA DO WITH YOU? - Barry White
(20th Century/ 1975) P/W: Barry White
(Timing: 3:37; BPM: approx. 115 bpm
Pop: #8; R&B: #1 (1): Disc-o-la: not listed
45: A) What Am I Gonna Do With You; B) What Am I Gonna do With You Baby
CD Availability: "Just For You" box set + various "Greatest Hits" compilations
A= 0; B= 44; C= 21; D= 62; Total points = 127
8 weeks on the chart (3/8/75 - 4/26/75)/ 3 weeks in the Top 10/ Peak: #5

This was one of Barry's best dance tunes, IMHO; the retailers all charted it--but the DJs who gave thir top tunes to Moulton for the A list chart--didn't give it proper respect. Barry's previous record 'You're the First, the Last, My Everything" was a big hit on the disco charts....it seems as though the discophiles felt Barry had now crossed over to the Pop/R&B charts and was now too mainstream???? He gets a 1 week mention in 1977 for "I'm Qualified to Satisfy You" and then hits big again in August of 1977 with "It's Ecstasy When You Lay Next To Me" peaking at #5, according to Whitburn's book (which I conveniently have with me today.)

Or maybe Barry's formula was wearing thin???? But "What Am I Gonna Do With You" and the equally snubbed "Let The Music Play" are CLASSICS in my opinion. :D

**QUINNY** · November 22nd, 2005, 04:08 PM

Marky: I believe the formula employed by the Walrus of Love had worn a tad thin by this time. He sounds rather bored and tired on this number to my ears.

**Salsoul1975** · November 22nd, 2005, 04:15 PM

What I found interesting about the inclusion of White's "Let The Music Play" on the disco lists in March 1976 is that it had debuted on both the pop and R&B charts in December 1975. This was truly an exception to the rule, considering that songs would make the disco lists first and then spread to the national charts.

**remicks** · November 22nd, 2005, 04:33 PM

*****

OK ..... read the book ..... now what ?? :roll:

3 weeks in the Top 10/ Peak: #5

.....now who's gettin' goofy ...... #5 is a snub?? :roll:

He sounds rather bored and tired on this number to my ears.

Clean those ears Quinny !! The man was peaking at this point !! Polished and self- assured , and then those determinedly swirling strings !! Delicious . :D

*****

**markydefad** · November 22nd, 2005, 04:39 PM

remicks, you saucy tart.... :P

my point, and I do have one....is that Chart A: NYC Audience Response in DISCOS gave it 0-- that's ZERO points. :o :o :o :o :x

The retailers gave it enough points to chart # 5 on the compilation chart. Does that 'splain it?

**QUINNY** · November 22nd, 2005, 04:40 PM

Originally Written by remicks

*****

OK ..... read the book ..... now what ?? :roll:

3 weeks in the Top 10/ Peak: #5

.....now who's gettin' goofy ...... #5 is a snub?? :roll:

He sounds rather bored and tired on this number to my ears.

Clean those ears Quinny !! The man was peaking at this point !! Polished and self- assured , and then those determinedly swirling strings !! Delicious . :D

*****

He even sounded bored and tired to my much younger ears at the time. No, by then, he'd started to get on my nerves and was viewed as a 'yesterday man'. Just the one great album and the rest was too predictable by far.