Sex and the City in the 70s

[actor260]

Hello everyone -

I'm in the process of writing a pilot about the disco era (that I'm planning on pitching to HBO). I feel that this was a very important era that rarely gets justice. I've been doing tons of research and I have a pretty good idea of what was going on. But, ultimately, I will never know what it was really like (I was born in 1982). So, I come to you guys because I know you have a deep love and appreciation for this time period. My questions are: 1) What are the most important things to stress about the era? 2) What are the major differences between then and today (good and bad)? 3) What songs send you back in time the most?

And, if you're interested - here's a bit about the pilot:
It will be set in a disco in NYC (with Studio 54 used as a blue print). The time period will stretch from 1976/1977 (right before disco became mainstream) through about 1981/1982 (the beginning of the crisis). The show centers around a guy who relocates to New York in the late 70s from the Mid-West. I like to think of it as a mix between The Wizard of Oz, The Wonder Years and Sex and the City.

Thanks guys.

[paul]

OK, I'll bite. 8)
I'll have more to add in later posts but here are some quick things.
1 - INCLUDE BLACK PEOPLE. I've seen so many of these movies where you'll hear music from us, perhaps a few of us as background characters, but rarely in significant roles. We were there in all the clubs straight and I can bet the gay guys would say the gays as well.

2 - Work with someone familiar with the musical timeline. Sometimes the music while disco isn't accurately used for the time.

3 - Include occassional references to the "disco sucks" crowd. These are the same folks you see today doing the "Y-M-C-A" at the ballpark whenever it's played :o

I'll be back with more 8)

[Videoskooter]

If it's on HBO, you can go really dirty with the nude scenes and the sex. I am not saying this coz' I like to watch those thingies but it was part of the scene.

As Paul already mentioned, you have to include black people and gays, who are very neglected uptil now in the various attempts to bring Disco to the screen.

Cars are very important, be sure you get the real classics in it. As for the music. Make sure you don't only include the big hits, put some underground stuff in it too.

1.The decadence, the transition from the hippies and the flowerpeople (60's-early seventies) into the yuppie culture (early 80's). The posh side of Disco, the almost Romanesque exuberance. Watch some 70's porn movies to get the idea (seriously).

2.The big difference between the Disco-culture BITD and the Dance-culture now is the mood on the dancefloor. I always read reactions of our younger members that they can't accept that the oldies (like me and others here) tell 'em that they simply can not get the 100% Discofeel because they didn't experienced the seventies. And that's true, Disco has to be seen in the wide context of society back then and that feeling can not be revived by simply playing all the classics.

3.For the music: consult the topic 'Billboard consensus charts" which are posted weekly by our dear member Markydefad. They give an excellent impression of what was hot and what was not in those days.

And finally, good examples are the movies: "Summer of Sam" and "Boogie Nights". Very bad examples are "54" and "The Last Days Of Disco", they showed Disco but they sure didn't capture the FEEL of it.

[Spellbound]

I've been doing tons of research and I have a pretty good idea of what was going on. But, ultimately, I will never know what it was really like (I was born in 1982).

I am only a few years older than you but here is my opinion

These kind of movies/programs are usually done by the wrong people and in your case since you were born in 1982 you are definitely the wrong person

The problem is the majority of people our age think they can do a quick GOOGLE search on the 1970's, watch a few episodes of THAT 70's SHOW, record a few VH-1 1970's programs etc... and all of a sudden they feel they have a good idea and understanding of what actually went down back then.

Well I am here to tell you that you will definitely need to consult with people who were actually there. Your knowledge alone (no matter how smart you are) is not enough. No offense.

You will be attempting to recreate an era which is very special to a lot of people on here so if you are going to do it make sure that you do it right. There are a lot of little things when added all together will definitely enhance the overall feeling of the story you are trying to tell. Leave them all out and all of a sudden the story becomes less realistic.

I feel that this was a very important era that rarely gets justice.

No. It gets plenty of justice just maybe not around the people you surround yourself with or the media you pay attention to.

Is there some hope for your idea becoming a reality and a non laughable unbelieveable story? Yes. As long as you consult with plenty people who actually lived in those times.

[Salsoul1975]

This is a topic that I can never get tired of. There have been countless discussions about it here. This is someone who was very, very young when the '70s were going on in society so I can only speak from a perspective of little factual information.

I was born in 1975, so my earliest recollections were around 1977. I remember being at home with my mother and older sister (Dad was at work). Earliest pop-culture memories for me: hearing Dolly Parton's "Here You Come Again" all the time on the radio, along with songs like "Fantasy" (EWF), "Dust In The Wind" (Kansas), "The Closer I Get To You" (Roberta Flack), "Baby Hold On" (Eddie Money), and so on. Those were the top records of the day, so this was spring/early summer 1978 (according to the charts I discovered later in life).

Television-wise, my sister remembers more because she was 2.5 years older than me. I can recall seeing shows like "Eight Is Enough" and "Mork & Mindy" around 1979-80. I can go on forever, but I hope some here get the gist of this so far.

The younger generation, like those born around 1982 and after, are saturated by the whole "retro" approach that has been going on ad nauseum since the premiere of the '70s Preservation Society CD commercials in the early 1990's. The formula is successful enough: concentrate on all of the overexaggerated cliches of the decade (leisure suits, afros, mood rings, platform shoes, flared pants, Top 10 disco music), the same thing that were subject of ridicule in the 1980's and beyond, and make that the in thing. It has worked. That is how the consumer Establishment defines the 1970's for the post-millenial population.

What they don't tell you is that the 1970's can not come back, just like any decade before it. Keep one thing in mind; in those days VCR's were a rarity, and if you had one, you had to have shelled out about $2,000 for one. Also, free love was still commonplace; the only diseases you had to freak over getting exposed to were venereal disease, syphillis, gonorrhea, herpes, and other assorted bugs that, for the most part, weren't fatal. We didn't have compact discs, and remote control televisions were considered "state-of-the-art". (Note: my family bought its first remote control TV set in 1983! The VCR came a year later). We didn't have SUV's and computers were not compact-size or functional like laptops; they were the size of a king-size refridgerator! I can go on and on....and frankly, Madge's flirtation with disco is just another new trendy move she is making. Disco never died....now the media's suddenly kissing its behind because she's promoting it!

[Spellbound]

If I were to contact all of my extended family from the 1990's rave scene (not my actual family but you get the point) and tell them some kid born in 2002 was considering creating an HBO series about the 1990's rave scene I am positive all of them would start laughing at me.

If I told them some kid born in 1982 was considering creating an HBO series about the 1990's rave scene I am positive all of them would keep on laughing at me.

So just imagine what they would say about some kid born in 1982 trying to create an HBO series about the 1970's and early 1980's club scene?????

They would all probably start crying from laughter :cry:

The underground can be a very competitive scene. I know some people who trace their clubbing days all the way back to the original SOUND FACTORY of the late 1980's

Most people on this forum can trace their roots much further back than that

So Mr. Actor260 proceed with caution because you are walking on some very thin ice

[paul]

My questions are: 1) What are the most important things to stress about the era? 2) What are the major differences between then and today (good and bad)? 3) What songs send you back in time the most?

Thanks guys.

1) The drinking age in many areas was 18. The expression of sexuality was the complete opposite of the "just say no" public announcements. Head shops were easily found.
There was a sense, perhaps naively in retrospect, that regardless of our background disco was bringing us together. This includes race, age, sexuallity, nationality, etc. We weren't there yet but on our way.
Always lurking in the background were the haters. The disco sucks people, the Anita Bryants who had issues with gays, and also in retrospect a self-righteous conservative christian movement.
2 Compared to 30 years ago, the culture today is far more conservative. For good or bad, driving under the influence is taken far more seriously today.
AIDS.
The dress and style of both young and old were similar. Today there is a clear difference between the hip hop generation and the older generation.
3 The songs that would that remind me of the discos cause they were so popular in the clubs include: Aint No Stopping Us Now, Freak Out, Get Your Boom Boom, Cocomotion, Let's Get It Together, Boss, Good Times, Super Freak, I'm A Sucker For Your Love, Dance With You, He's The Greatest Dancer, You're The One For Me, There But For The Grace Of God, One Nation Under A Groove, Hi Tension, Love Injection, When You Wake Up Tomorrow....and so many more

[JussiK]

The thing is: don't go the expected route, meaning platform shoes and afros and polyester and tracks by KC and the Sunshine Band. We've all seen that in countless other presentations and really, how accurate a picture would that be, once again? In the tv series CUT, Tommy Hilfiger ordered a team to re-create the atmosphere of Studio 54. The team came up with the usual bag of cliches like those listed above, plus "A Fifth of Beethoven" to set the extras in motion. Quite rightly, Hilfiger told them it was all wrong and the team lost.

Instead of being predictable, highlight the more offbeat tunes that were big. An endless-seeming, what-the -****-is-this? kind of metronomically thumping sleazy instrumental is more accurate than a typical radiofriendly hit like "Turn The Beat Around" , good as that one of course is. If you choose tracks like "Troublemaker" by Roberta Kelly, or "Love In C Minor" by Cerrone you'll come up with something more accurate, more interesting and more unexpected, not with something that the general (American) public automatically thinks as disco. Why recycle the same thing over and over when there's the real picture to be painted for a nation that once embraced disco but lost of respect for it, thanks to the imagery of John Travolta and done-to-death tracks like "I Will Survive".

[Bernie]

The dress and style of both young and old were similar. Today there is a clear difference between the hip hop generation and the older generation.

Paul,
Just thinking about your point here and it never dawned on me, but I think you're right. The idea in the Disco era was to always dress to impress. Everybody did this regardless of age. No expense was spared.

[jackin]

I would love to see that show. i love every depiction of disco culture in movies - no matter how mainstream they are.
(my faves is boogie nights, last days, and carlitos way)

luuurrve the 70s even though i´m to young for actual experience...but there are a few great books and liner notes from compilation cds. I think the screenwriter should read Mel Cherens autobiography...it´s great. revealing + mel cheren is probably the most important authority on 70s clubculture...he did it all- homosexuality, drugs, fire island, frequented all the underground clubs in NYC, close friend with Levan and so on...("my life and the paradise garage"). tim lawrence "love saves the day" is also great, but a little bit more "nerdy"

1. 70s was the decade when gay culture was revealed, and that had an great impact.

2. i can imagine that the greatest difference is that people were more naive. naive about drugs. People weren´t aware of AIDS. clubbing was totally new and invisible for the authorities. nowadays police is cracking down much harder against "raves" or big parties. the mob ran many of the NYC-clubs, as money washing...so they weren´t that considered with making a lot of bucks...as most of the clubs are now...

3. there are zillion disco classics..we´ve all heard the classics...my classics are: ain´t no stoppin us, philly, patrick adams, tom moulton, salsoul etc...i think john davis orchestra - bourgie bourgie is one of the disco blueprints - sexy, cheesy, funky...everybody wanted to be luxurious at the dance floor..

maybe the time is ripe for a revival now....in our days with all the paris hilton worship and all....(and btw: i´m really tired of madonna...exactly how "disco" is kabbala?)

[RetroRuss]

Mmmm, the plot sounds like that film about Studio 54 that was on TV here earlier in the year.

My only experience of the Disco scene in the US was in 1979 in San Fransisco & LA (West Hollywood). From what I saw (and recall) there were three or four distinct 'types' of club....Gay - lots of poppers, Opulent, White and Black. Being English I got into to all of these clubs (I was also a good dancer so got away with it)...the music styles were slightly different in each.

I do recall (Although very hazily) a high degree of hedonism - I lived in Fiourucci jeans (frayed at the end) and Gucci shoes I had big curly hair & scared the sh*t out of a lot of locals as they thought I was part of the Italian 'family' from the UK on a working vacation visiting my cousins (BTW I'm not Italian) ...as I drove around in a 1978 Buick Le Sabre with Nevada plates...I was there for about 6 weeks.

Good luck with it

[originalbigm]

.Here's a link to a similar movie made in the era with a good soundtrack for research purposes.Most of the club scenes are in singles/disco bars but it might give you insight into the mindset and style of the seventies

http://www.mooviees.com/3325-looking...-goodbar/movie

[buckaroo]

The best films about the era...where made during it...

[Spellbound]

Today there is a clear difference between the hip hop generation and the older generation.

If you want to get really specific the REAL hip hop generation is people who are now in their 30's and older

The so called hip hop generation kids of today are nothing but a product of clever MTV marketing

They just do not realize it because they are ignorant

True it is not their fault they were raised in an era of such trash and corporate marketing schemes but it is what it is

[QUINNY]

Today there is a clear difference between the hip hop generation and the older generation.

If you want to get really specific the REAL hip hop generation is people who are now in their 30's and older

The so called hip hop generation kids of today are nothing but a product of clever MTV marketing

They just do not realize it because they are ignorant

True it is not their fault they were raised in an era of such trash and corporate marketing schemes but it is what it is

Puhleeeeese. Wake up and smell the toolips.

Marketing guys have thrust their schemes upon the unsuspecting for decades. D'ya really think the kids in the Disco generation wanted half the crap that was released? Why would vibrant, horny, kids want something like I Love Lucy, for example?

[Spellbound]

I was talking about hip hop. The REAL generation and the current one who thinks they are the real one but they are not. I understand the effects of marketing in the past even within DISCO.

But in terms of hip hop a 17 year old in 1982 did not encounter the same kind of marketing as a 17 year old in 2002. It was more original then than now.

Suits and ties did not control which records were popular etc... There were no 17 year olds walking around Utah and Colorado rapping with fake south Bronx and Brooklyn accents.

Today's kids look towards MTV to tell them which rap cd's to buy etc...

Today it is so fake.

Lets package up a subway train complete with an old school boombox and dancers sporting fat laces with adidas and market this to the unsuspecting.

Better yet how about marketing a young black male with a thugged out attitude and constipated look on his face with a gun tucked between his back and his boxers. Let him rhyme endlessly about black death and black stereotypes and surely we will be able to sell some units.

I could go on forever.

[buckaroo]

Spellbound.
This is certainly not a new or recent phenomena.
In 1920s American during it's Ragtime period, when sheet music was sold, black musicians like Scott Joplin had a hard time earning money. Very few publisher's were interested in his music, and the ones that were kept his racial identity a secret.
In the '50s and '60s and earlier even, artists were packaged and promoted and controlled by svengalis also. Certain artist's sexual preferences were kept secret so as not to affect record sales. The Supremes for example had training at Motown before they went near the studio. They had deportment training: how to enter/exit cars, how to behave in public etc (some people could use it now :roll: ) Certain artists didn't even sing on their albums. Because they were models who looked the part, a session singer was used instead. As we all know, TV and film actors did disco LPs in order to cash in on the fame and fans they had. Remember the Partridge Family? David Cassidy? David Soul? These people were marketed to high heaven to teens around the world. Young girls were wearing Farah Fawcett hairstyles...Some guys too The main difference between now and the past, is that if you're shrewd, you can walk away from the music biz rich. Back in the '50s '60s and '70s artists were ripped off right left and centre and left pennyless. There's the old story about George McCrae storming into his label's offices demanding payment for the hits he was having. The bosses appeased him by giving him a car :roll: That's the sort of respect you got as a hit maker.

Things certainly were not more original back in 1982: Records were hyped into the charts. Manufactured groups abounded. There were loads of teen mags, fan clubs, and TV/radio progs aimed at youngsters in order to part them from their cash. There were also young girls walking around dressed up like a certain gay singer who was having hits about this time in that year. Who he? Boy George.

[Spellbound]

I was speaking in terms of the so called hip hop generation. Trying to distinguish between the real generation and the fake one of today.

[actor260]

Hello everyone -

Thank you to those who responded positively and also to those who responded negatively... I guess I should have explained a little about my intentions with the show (before getting thoroughly lashed :-)...

My main purpose is to understand. And to make others understand: How did we get here? Speaking from a purely American point of view, I think this time period holds the key to explaining how a generation of people went from the 60's hippies, etc. to the politicans of today - turning our culture upside down. And I see my generation, eventually, going in the same direction. We have hope, we want to change things, but will we be consumed with money, power and all of those things in 30 years? As human beings, we have short memory spans (our way of dealing), but I think it's time to re-examine our present (by looking to our past). If we don't we repeat. And aren't the gas prices, the war and our disbelief in our political leaders (especially the President) sort of similar to the 70s?

So, when did the change happen? No one can say for sure, but if I had to choose one singular event - it would be the "Disco Sucks" rally. It was the beginning of putting black people, gays, women, etc. back in their "places." Because we all know that's what disco really represnts: gay, black, and latin music using women as the leaders.

Another important thing I want to express is, as one poster put it, the naivety of the era. Because in hindsight we know what will happen to these people (these characters) because we (not me personally) were there. And that's the worst kind of scary movie.

About me: Before moving to CA, I lived in Chelsea (New York City). If you're familiar with the era you know that there are tons of people there who lived during this era. A few years ago, they introduced me to the real side of disco. The culture, politics and the music (and about the whole Madonna thing - is that really disco? That's more synth pop). I immediately fell in love with it. And for those who think it's in vogue now - NO WAY! My friends my age hate it (and I think it's only because the general consenus is that you're supposed to hate it). Since my first encounter with it, I have spent the better part of four years researching the time period with real people, along with the books, documentaries, autobiographies...

I say all of this to say, for all of those worried, I'm not doing this for a quick buck. I respect this era way too much for that. This has become a laber of love for me. I know I'm young, but that's why I come to you. I'm trying to give a voice to something I feel desperately needs one. And if you're familiar with HBO, you know that its programming is very racy, so this will not be some watered down Studio 54 or That 70's Show (?). This will not be PC... And about the music: Sure, there will be nods to the mainstream, but most of it will be underground. Those songs are more emotional anyway.

By the way, the top 10 songs on my ipod happen to be disco:

1 - Keep On Jumpin' - Musique
2 - Loving Is Really My Game - Brainstorm
3 - Love and Kisses - I Found Love
4 - Carrie Lucas - Dance With You
5 - Cocomotion - Coco
6 - Sunny - Boney M
7 - Spring Affair - Donna Summer
8 - Your Love - Lime
9 - Born to be Alive
10 - You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)

If you guys have any more comments, ideas - please keep them coming. I really appreciate it.
Thanks.

[paul]

Hi Actor.
Hope it all works out. I hope the comments didn't paint the period as negative. It was great and the negative comments are there to provide a broader perspective.
I noticed you have Your Love in your song list (nice list by the way). Check out the movie Summer Lovers. Though it was a little after the disco era and it wasn't a disco movie, that song was featured in it. Most importantly it captured the feeling of the disco period.

[Spellbound]

LOL

4 years?

Wow you really have been putting in a lot of work havent you?

And aren't the gas prices, the war and our disbelief in our political leaders (especially the President) sort of similar to the 70s?

No. Stop trying to pretend you understand what they went through. The subway I ride everyday still has the same orange carpet from the 1970's. Big fucking deal!

Another important thing I want to express is, as one poster put it, the naivety of the era. Because in hindsight we know what will happen to these people (these characters) because we (not me personally) were there. And that's the worst kind of scary movie.

LOL again

Many of these people turned out just fine. They even have their own reunion parties. Hard to believe right? The media says it is dead so surely it has to be.

About me: Before moving to CA, I lived in Chelsea (New York City). If you're familiar with the era you know that there are tons of people there who lived during this era. A few years ago, they introduced me to the real side of disco. The culture, politics and the music (and about the whole Madonna thing - is that really disco? That's more synth pop). I immediately fell in love with it. And for those who think it's in vogue now - NO WAY! My friends my age hate it (and I think it's only because the general consenus is that you're supposed to hate it). Since my first encounter with it, I have spent the better part of four years researching the time period with real people, along with the books, documentaries, autobiographies...

LOL you really are a funny guy

My mom is from San Francisco. I have known her my entire life. Lived with my parents for over 18 years and spent a lot of time with them. I know all there is to know about the 1970's San Francisco club scene. Noobody knows more than me because my mother told me all there is to know. Yeah right. :roll:

And for those who think it's in vogue now - NO WAY! My friends my age hate it (and I think it's only because the general consenus is that you're supposed to hate it).

Since when do you and your friends represent the entire 18-25 year old population?

By the way, the top 10 songs on my ipod happen to be disco:

1 - Keep On Jumpin' - Musique
2 - Loving Is Really My Game - Brainstorm
3 - Love and Kisses - I Found Love
4 - Carrie Lucas - Dance With You
5 - Cocomotion - Coco
6 - Sunny - Boney M
7 - Spring Affair - Donna Summer
8 - Your Love - Lime
9 - Born to be Alive
10 - You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)

Oh my god you even have the tunes to back it up dont you?

You definitely got my respect now dude!

[JussiK]

By the way, the top 10 songs on my ipod happen to be disco:

1 - Keep On Jumpin' - Musique
2 - Loving Is Really My Game - Brainstorm
3 - Love and Kisses - I Found Love
4 - Carrie Lucas - Dance With You
5 - Cocomotion - Coco
6 - Sunny - Boney M
7 - Spring Affair - Donna Summer
8 - Your Love - Lime
9 - Born to be Alive
10 - You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)

.

All that and I Found Love by The Love and Kisses too - you're on the right track!

[Lady R]

I think writing about something you haven't actually experienced is hard, and not a task I would take on no matter how passionate I felt about that era, not when there are still people alive who lived it - as to me it's their story to tell should they choose too.

I was born in 1974 and although I have memories of the 70's and early 80's no way could I write something that captured everything. The only way I could write about the 70's or early 80's would have to be through the eyes of a Child.

I really love the idea you have of putting a TV prog / Film together about this era, as I'd love to know more and like someone mentioned earlier no matter how much those of us who weren't there, watch films or what ever about the mid 70's - early 80's we wont ever really get that feel - so with that being said if I was to watch something about the Disco era I would rather it be made by someone who was there, just so I knew that what I was seeing was the closest I will ever get to knowing what it may have been like. Not what someone thinks or wishes it had been like.

I do admire your determination and the work you've put into this project and I wish you luck with it, but I really think you need a lot more input from people of the time, (maybe get a co-writer who lived it?) and it's not just about getting the right music in, you have to capture the language too, as slang words change as the years go by along with food fads, everything and to make it that authentic which you'll have to as there are still a lot of peeps around who lived it and you miss anything out honey, and all your hard work might get trashed.

Good luck though!
xxx

[actor260]

Wow -

I'm not replying to start a fight or anything like that, just to put this topic to bed. I'm not sure how many of you are writers, artists, whatever - but your view is clearly blurred if you think that one can't make art out of something that they didn't experience... Have you ever seen the Godfather? Mario Puzo - didn't have any experience of that. Many things in it are actually inaccurate (i.e. he made them up). But, in my opinion (and surely quite a few other people), it's one of the best films ever made... Have you ever seen Boogie Nights? P.T. Anderson was a child when that stuff was happening. So, what did he do? He researched. Have you ever seen Forrest Gump? Tom Hanks was never in those situations. But, he gave a briliant performance. Have you ever seen the painting of The Last Supper? Read Hamlet? Heard Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds? The list goes on and on. That's art.

Art is not meant to be the real thing - it can't be. And most times, the real thing is not watchable. And this is hard to remember because our society is filled with reality shows (which aren't real either). You have to remember I'm not doing a documentary, I'm "creating" a show. These characters are born from my own imagination. But since I'm doing it like a history I want the society to be as close as I can make it to reality. But, once again, it will never be reality. And for those who think that someone who lived through it could tell it better - there's a name for that: An Autobiography. Objectively, I can incorporate more variations on a theme than that person can, which makes for more interesting television. And, as much as I want this to be art, I have to remember that this is my job. And to keep my job things have to be interesting enough for people to return over and over again.

I sincerely thank all of those who have led me in positive directions. We are currently following up on all of these things. And for those who were negative - thank you too. This proves that this topic is still relevant.

Thanks.

[Lady R]

Art can be made out of anything I agree - a trip around Tate modern proves that. Art is also personal choice. One persons art is another persons trash, there's no right or wrong.

I'm wasn't for a minute suggesting you don't have talent or imagination - I can't as I haven't seen anything you've created before. I think I got the wrong end of the stick having just read your original post again, I now understand what sort of programme your aiming to make, and it wasn't what I first thought it to be.

Out of interest as this is your job, what other stuff have you done before?

That'll teach me to quickly read stuff at work then reply :P