Belgian Big Bang???

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by remicks

All countries are "fake" in that their boundaries are contrived by man and are pliable and often arbitrary ... but in reading this article's concise history of Belgium .... would it be accurate to say that Belgium 's placement on the world atlas is as artificial as Iraq's??? ..... And the glue that holds each together equally as weak?

Remmy, absolutely! Belgium is an artificial entity with 2 ethnical groups that were forced to live together. It was created by a French speaking nobility that for decades denied the Flemish to have their own culture. In the first worldwar, Flemish soldiers were treated like dirt by their own Walloon officers. They had the right to die but they received their orders in French.

That's why a part of the Flemish took the wrong decision to collaborate with Hitler and Nazi-Germany in the second worldwar. Hitler considered the Flemish not as equal to the superior German race but acknowledged their German-Celtic roots and suppported the Flemish collaborators.

Although it's fair to say that while the Flemish are still blasted by the Walloons for being nazi-friendly in the past, they also had a big fascist movement (REX Forces) BITD, leaded by the Walloon Léon Dégrelle who also collaborated with Hitler. The Walloons will never mention that and keep this silent!

As during the century, the French speaking bourgeoisie lost its influence in Flanders, the odds turned in favour of Flanders who has become the majority, as well in numbers of inhabitants as economically.

Wallonia can not survive without large money transfers from Flanders and that's why they are so eager to maintain the Belgian kingdom.

[dfc99bb]

Why is this happening now, 89 years after WW-1, 62 years after WW-2? What other European nations are prone to fracture? Italy perhaps with it's historic north / south divide?

I haven't heard the official US position on this so I guess all it means to the US is that we just hire another ambasador or two. And what does the rest of the useless EU think of the Belgian situation?

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by dfc99bb

Why is this happening now, 89 years after WW-1, 62 years after WW-2? What other European nations are prone to fracture? Italy perhaps with it's historic north / south divide?

It's a growing process I guess, other parties, other politicians! About Italy: glad that you mention it because they are having a similar discussion with parties like the Lega Nord who indeed want to separate the "rich" North from the "poor" South.

Originally Posted by dfc99bb

I haven't heard the official US position on this so I guess all it means to the US is that we just hire another ambasador or two. And what does the rest of the useless EU think of the Belgian situation?

I think the Americans are a little worried because NATO headquarters are in Brussels and their (believed ) nukes are on Flemish soil.

The useless EU is getting nervous too because they worry what would happen after a Belgian split. Will other regions like Catalania follow the Flemish example?

BTW, if Flanders should become independent they would have to apply for EU-membership, UN-membership, Nato and so on! They would de facto be out of all those unions!

And what about Belgium then? It's possible that a Wallonia/Brussels state would sail on under the Belgian flag with the Belgian King but will they be recognised under that identity?

BTW2, there's another discussion going on which is not mentioned in foreign press. The majority of Flemish wants to get rid of the Royal family as they are considered useless and Flanders-unfriendly (almost nobody of that reigning family except for the King himself can speak decent Flemish).

Interesting fact: today the leadership of Vlaams Belang (Flemish fascist and separatist party who have 1 million voters out of 5 million Flemish, thus the second biggest Flemish party just after the Flemish Christian Democrats) was brutally arrested by the Brussels Police during a Anti-Islam manifestation. They claim that they were a deliberate target of the French speaking socialist mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans and were called "dirty Flemish scum" by the Police. They have filed an official complaint against the mayor and the Police. Why do I mention this? You have to know Belgium to understand such sensitive case because it will have a repercussion on the governemental negotiations. Thielemans is a member of the PS (Walloon Socialist party that is hated in Flanders) and will get harsh criticism for doing this.

Here are Filip Dewinter (member and fraction leader of the Flemish Parliament) and Frank Vanhecke, president and member of the European Parliament. Both the heads of Vlaams Belang.

Funny: notice that on the back of the Police uniform they legally have to put both official languages!















Just in: the European Justice Commissionary Franco Frattini will probably also file a complaint against Brussels mayor Thielemans because according to latest info, other diplomats and members from other European countries got the same "treatment" by Brussel Police.

Here's some actual info on the events and the Belgian crisis by the forementioned Paul Beliën:

The Brussels Journal | The Voice of Conservatism in Europe

[Videoskooter]

Great article on the Country Formerly Known as Belgium:

Belgium-Politics

[dfc99bb]

So a deal is in the works to keep Belgium in one piece?

BTW, that brusselsjournal.com is great reading. Sad to say I'm not surprised that Europe is caving in to unrestricted immigration from muslim countries. Eurabia is on the way. At least in America we discuss and debate immigration. Apparently in Europe democracy is dying as well. WW2 was fought to give Europe it's freedom, and now Europe is pissing it away. Hitler and Stalin are both laughing down in hell.

Europe, when the Iranian Army marches into Paris don't call us. 1918 and 1945 were enough. Bailing out weaklings 3 times in 100 years is too much to ask.

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by dfc99bb

So a deal is in the works to keep Belgium in one piece?

No, that was an article from a week ago. The partners are still not on speaking terms and it's already decided that on October 9th when the parliament will open there will not be a state of the union because there won't be a new government.

Over the last days the Walloons have tried to torpede Yves Leterme but today all Flemish partners have stated: Leterme will be prime minister or they just won't be a Belgian government.



Who'll back down first????

Also, Freddy Thielemans, the mayor in Brussels is under heavy fire now after his cops insulted and attacked Flemish representants and senators and a inquiry from the EU is under way to investigate on which grounds he has forbidden the demonstration against Islam and why he has arrested members of the European parliament.

He's also under heavy attack after it was revealed that he publicly raised his glass when the death of Pope John-Paul II was announced and he shouted: "Let's celebrate that!".

And Eurabia will never be a fact! Don't worry! There may be a lot of Muslims but don't forget that Roman-Catholic Poland is also a member of the EU! And Turkey is not and probably will never be.

[RetroRuss]

Apart from one mention a couple of weeks ago on the BBC News, this story is not in the public consciousness here in the UK. Quite incredible really given we are connected by a rail tunnel and Brussels is only 2 hours away by train and that it is the 'Capital of Europe'.
It is a to a degree happening here in the UK, with Scotland demanding independence from England and passing a lot of its own laws. The UK Prime Minister is Scottish, like his predecessor! In this country 80% of the people are politically illiterate so really don't care what happens - as long as they have their pint to sup on a Friday, Sky TV and cheap food from Asda they get on with their lives...sad really!

[Videoskooter]

And just when all parties are willing to negotiate again some Walloons place this on YT

Probably meant to point out that the Flemish are not so happy with the royal family they think it's funny faking the blow up of the royal palace.

Maybe the Walloons can stop the provocations now???

In case people are planning to visit Brussels, it's a fake clip of course and showing ZE bad taste of some idiots!

[dfc99bb]

This is the first column in a mass-circulation NYC newspaper, The New York Post, regarding the Belgian situation.

================================================== ===

A WAFFLING FATE

By JONAH GOLDBERG

Linked here

October 13, 2007 -- YOU probably don't real ize it, but we' re living in an unprecedented historical moment: For the first time, Belgium has managed to be interesting without getting invaded by Germany or abusing an African colony.

What's so interesting? In short: Belgium is coming apart at the seams. For four months, its 11 political parties have been unable to form a national government because the Dutch-speaking regions want greater autonomy, or even outright independence.

Primarily split between Dutch-speaking Flemings and French-speaking Walloons, Belgium was formed as a constitutional monarchy whose non-French-speakers were mostly treated as second-class citizens. Even today, 177 years later, there are no national figures or national political parties. Each party represents its own ethnic, linguistic or regional enclave. But, although the Flemish majority is somewhat more prosperous, the Walloons have a perceived stranglehold on Belgian politics.

One is tempted to joke that it's an Iraq with better weather and waffles. But it isn't a mini-Iraq, and not just because they're not killing one another. It's more like a mini-European Union. In fact, that's the one thing everyone can agree on.

No country is more invested in the EU experiment than Belgium - whose capital, Brussels, is also the EU capital. If Belgium falls to sectarianism, what does that say about prospects for making Europe into a super-Belgium?

Belgium is a "laboratory," says Joelle Milquet, leader of the French-speaking Humanist Democratic Center Party and a defender of both a united Belgium and European Union. "If 10 million people in a developed country do not manage to build a collective project," she told Britain's Telegraph newspaper, "that would signal the bankruptcy of what one tries to build at the European and even international level."

But here's the hilarious irony of all this: The European Union is in effect subsidizing nationalism in Belgium and across the continent. As the European Union assumes more of the responsibilities of states - regulations, the economy, currency, possibly even defense - the cost of independence becomes lower.

Look at Scotland. The Scots are moving, perhaps inexorably, toward independence from Britain. A referendum could take place as early as 2010 and would likely pass. And why not? Scotland didn't formally become part of Britain until 1707, when it caved in to English threats to its trade and the free movement of people across the border. Now, thanks to the European Union, such threats are illegal.

A similar process is under way in Kosovo, which wants to break from Serbia (the United States backs that idea) and get EU candidacy like Croatia and Macedonia. The Basques in Spain aren't far behind.

In the past, ethnic enclaves probably couldn't make it on their own. But now the European Union provides a safety net.

The catch-22 is delightful. With the job description of a nation-state scaled back to a few ceremonial duties, ethnic minorities see fewer risks and a lot more rewards in breaking away. Countries such as Slovakia get to trade on their votes in the European Union and the United Nations. They get their own anthems and sports teams and get to teach their own language and culture.

It's like a McDonald's franchise. You man the register and keep the bathrooms clean, but the folks at corporate HQ do the heavy lifting. That's why the Basques, Scots and Flemings are looking to open their own franchises.

The question is whether the nationalist hunger of such McNations can be satisfied by just symbols of autonomy - which points to why I take such pleasure in the troubles in Brussels.

The European Union always made the most sense to Belgians, who have a weak national identity. The myth was that everyone felt the same way.

Indeed, the EU project has always been predicated on self-serving myths. Another is the idea that with greater "understanding" comes greater peace and comity. The Walloons and the Flemings understand each other; they just don't like each other very much.

Nobody wants the bloody nationalism of early 20th century Europe. But it's nonetheless gratifying that even on the European Union's Brussels campus, life resists the blueprints of the bureaucrats.

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Videoskooter]

Very accurate article!

The government formation is going on right now but tomorrow they'll be discussing the "language" problems and then everything can happen. Or, there finally will be an agreement or the formation will come to an abrupt end and nobody can predict what's going to happen then.

[RetroRuss]

I find it rather amusing that I have to read about Belgium's problems on a Disco Music forum! In the UK (when in two weeks we will be 90 minutes by train from the Belgium capital), the story doesn't even make the BBC News website!
I imagine our Government have a 'D' notice (complete censorship) on this issue as they are sh*t scared that if we see discord in another EU country then the mutterings for withdrawal from it will become a cacaphony!!

[dfc99bb]

Originally Posted by Headlamp

I find it rather amusing that I have to read about Belgium's problems on a Disco Music forum! In the UK (when in two weeks we will be 90 minutes by train from the Belgium capital), the story doesn't even make the BBC News website!

Same lack of coverage here in the US. Nothing or next to nothing about Belgium on Fox News, CNN or the broadcast networks. The cable and brodcast networks tend to cover events in the UK, Ireland, France and Germany on a regular basis. Forget about Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, etc. Only 2 items in the NYC newspapers about Belgium over the past few months.

It's not a big story here perhaps because it's expected to be settled in a peaceful fashion. Plus there is no large Belgian ethnic community in America. If Italy were to break up north/south it would get more coverage here, maybe.

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by Headlamp

I imagine our Government have a 'D' notice (complete censorship) on this issue as they are sh*t scared that if we see discord in another EU country then the mutterings for withdrawal from it will become a cacaphony!!

The whole EU is scared for Belgian's worst case scenario. What will the other regions do? Scotland? The Basks? Nato and the EU headquarters are in Brussels! What will happen to Brussels? Will Flanders claim a part of that region. How will the national deficit be taken care of. Will Brussels and Wallonia continue together under the Belgian flag?

Some say, that in that case all the debts are for them! Will Wallonia go bankrupt? Will Flanders be accepted as a new member of the EU (because as a new state they are NOT a member of the EU, nor Nato (the American nukes are based in Flanders), nor the United Nations, nor the Eurozone (currency), nor the Shengenzone (bordercontrol and customs).

Originally Posted by dfc99bb

Same lack of coverage here in the US. Nothing or next to nothing about Belgium on Fox News, CNN or the broadcast networks. The cable and brodcast networks tend to cover events in the UK, Ireland, France and Germany on a regular basis. Forget about Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, etc. Only 2 items in the NYC newspapers about Belgium over the past few months.

It's not a big story here perhaps because it's expected to be settled in a peaceful fashion. Plus there is no large Belgian ethnic community in America. If Italy were to break up north/south it would get more coverage here, maybe.

Well, New York is discovered by Belgians who quickly sold it to the Dutch. F.i., Hoboken is named after a Belgian city near Antwerp! Belgians are more to be found in Africa, in are former colonies, Cogo, Rwanda, Burundi.

And we gave you Jean-Claude Vandamme, Audrey Hepburn and Toots Thielemans, the Belgo restaurants, the Beaulieu carpets, Celis White Beer, Belgian fries, Belgian pralines, Belgian waffles, Soeur Sourire, the chief designers for Pininfarina, Bentley, Lamborghini...and...the Videoskooter in 2009, so you don't have to complain

Famous Belgians

[dfc99bb]

Originally Posted by Videoskooter

Well, New York is discovered by Belgians who quickly sold it to the Dutch. F.i., Hoboken is named after a Belgian city near Antwerp! Belgians are more to be found in Africa, in are former colonies, Cogo, Rwanda, Burundi.

What!! The Dutch first settled New Amsterdam!! Who was the Belgian that first settled New York? I live on Staten Island, where you still have neiighborhoods and streets with Dutch names: New Dorp, Kill Van Kull, Arthur Kill Road, Great Kills, etc.

Nato HQ goes to the UK, EU HQ goes to France. The US can move it's nukes out very quickly if need be.

[Videoskooter]

READ...LEARN and BE SURPRISED!

No Belgians in the US, hmmmmmm:

New York and its origins

The Dutch never tell you that story, do they????? Grrrrrr!