On seeing "Sicko"

[Nano]

OMG, I did it again! It wasnt my intention to touch a "red spot", but apparently I did.

I think Johan summed it up, we can argue here without missiles flying. My point here wasnt to talk about Michael Moore (I think I already know what everyone here thinks about him, for the good and the bad). The idea was to discuss the private healthcare system as it is in the U.S. and now some Third World countries (like mine) try to imitate.

The films basic points, Johan, describe the healthcare private U.S. companies as greedy entrepeneurs doing tricks to reject potentially sick people who wants to subscribe, and try to evade paying costly operations for those who did subscribe. Some things I remember:
1) A doctor who worked for one of these companies stated that he got points out of rejecting orders for medication and medic service, thus saving money for the company;
2) Patients whose orders were rejected by these companies and went into personal bankruptcy in order to pay for their ailments;
3) Indigent people being sacked from private clinics and abandoned at the entrance of public hospitals;
4) The revelation (for me at least) that Hillary Clintons public healthcare projects during Bills first term as President were forgotten as soon as some of these companies became heavy supporters of her campaign.

The filmmaker compares the U.S. system with those of Canada, England and France, and ends taking some rescue heroes of 9-11 (whose medical treatment couldnt be sustained by those companies) to Cuba to be cured in public hospitals.

I guess that last one was a provocation by Mr. Moore, but what really interests me is your opinion about the rest folks. Peace.

(Sorry my apostrophe key isnt working today)

[paul]

Thanks Marky, Dayna
Johan, people have been arrested here for wearing anti-bush/war clothing.
Rest assured too that if any nation sponsored the overthrow of the current US government the way we have in Venezezuela and Cuba, we would have been at war with them.
As for calling this cabal what they, the bush crime family, it's a fact. They have already admitted to violating laws. We just can't get these spineless democrats to do anything about it.
Johan if you can, see Sicko. It's very informative and entertaining as well.
Marky, I share your despair on the state of politics here in the US.

[paul]

Nano, I'm not sure what you want an opinion on?

[Videoskooter]

For people who want to join in or see what the fuzz is all about:

[Nano]

Originally Posted by paul

Nano, I'm not sure what you want an opinion on?

Meaning, is the healthcare system really corrupt like that (my interrogation sign is also absent) and how do you live with it as people in the U.S. Also I would like to hear people in Canada and Britain about the heavenly picture the film does on their public healthcare.

What Im not really interested (because I already know that) is what you think on Michael Moore, Bush, Chavez, Castro, etc. I think the economic side of it is what really matters (because politics go behind the economy).

I dont think the private healthcare companies in the U.S. are a Bush invention (correct me if Im wrong). Seems its been going on like that for decades.

[Videoskooter]

I remember that a few years back the European parliament denied private health insurance companies access to databanks with genetic files on patients.

You know what I mean, you go to a doctor and your medical file goes on hard disk and some tests can be used to predict if you have a fair chance of getting this or that disease in the future. If the companies can have that info they could start charging you a lot more because of the high risk or simply refuse you as a customer.

Is there something similar going on in the US?

(Nano, are you sure you don't want my opinion on Yugo Chavez??? Just asking???)

[Nano]

(Johan: you can always PM me)

[paul]

The short answer is yes, it is how Moore described it. Moore focused on those with insurance. Since the insurance companies are entirely profit motivated, there are some things the various companies via HMOs wont cover or cover with high deductibles and/or financially capped coverage limits. This sucks. In a country where we can always find money to drop bombs on somebody, we can find money to take care of Americans in a way that not only benefits the citizenry but will ultimately help the business environment.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Videoskooter

I remember that a few years back the European parliament denied private health insurance companies access to databanks with genetic files on patients.

You know what I mean, you go to a doctor and your medical file goes on hard disk and some tests can be used to predict if you have a fair chance of getting this or that disease in the future. If the companies can have that info they could start charging you a lot more because of the high risk or simply refuse you as a customer.

Is there something similar going on in the US?

(Nano, are you sure you don't want my opinion on Yugo Chavez??? Just asking???)

Yes. In Sicko and you can look this up, the companies deny or charge high premiums for certain condition. Obviously, they would have to draw from a database on one's particular health history to make a determination.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by markydefad

Since when is "compassion" for the welfare of your fellow man--ANTI-AMERICAN???--except in the minds of raving nutcases????

C

The only raving nutcases around here are those that blindly followed the opinions of Foreign socialists working hard to introduce ANTI-AMERICAN and failed socialist/Communist ideas in this country, the problem is that the likes of you, that have never ever known *real* necessities of life since you have always enjoyed the privileges and abundance of this country, get your brainwashing info from the likes of Michael Moore and his propaganda movies.

Today this leftist hides behind the “Basic Human need” banner to sell you ‘universal health care” for all , tomorrow free meals, later why not free housing for all, followed by free higher education, and so on and on, all at government expense, pretty soon if we allowed the likes of Moore to have their way soon will be wasting away under a bankrupt, corrupt socialist system and drowning in backbreaking taxes.

Michael Moore goes around finding the worse in American society and ignores all the rest, he then re-packages and sells this poisonous bundle to the masses of the world, if you don’t think this is ANTI_AMERICAN propaganda, rush to your primary doctor's office to have your head examined by a specialist .

In America if you have a job, -- and under BUSH there is almost no unemployment what so ever-- you can afford health care and/or private insurance, many people that don't have insurance drive around expensive SUV and own Plasma screens, why should I or any American taxpayer pay for his stupidity?? (and we do pay anyways)

[DiscoMan]

"“Double Standards” is putting it mildly"

And the challenge remains un-accepted.
The true character of www.discomusic.com is revealed.

[DiscoMan]

"ANTI-AMERICAN???--except in the minds of raving nutcases????"

And Markey deserves sanctions for also being insulting and offensive.

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Today this leftist hides behind the “Basic Human need” banner to sell you ‘universal health care” for all , tomorrow free meals, later why not free housing for all, followed by free higher education, and so on and on, all at government expense, pretty soon if we allowed the likes of Moore to have their way soon will be wasting away under a bankrupt, corrupt socialist system and drowning in backbreaking taxes.

Thats sounds heartless and PARONOID~!!
I'm not going to say anything personal because I'm a lady ,and you have attacked me verbally before..

[Videoskooter]

Guys, girls, time out, love each other and have a little of this:

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Nano

The films basic points, Johan, describe the healthcare private U.S. companies as greedy entrepeneurs doing tricks to reject potentially sick people who wants to subscribe, and try to evade paying costly operations for those who did subscribe. Some things I remember:

1) A doctor who worked for one of these companies stated that he got points out of rejecting orders for medication and medic service, thus saving money for the company;

Like everything else in life, you'll find 'good companies' and 'bad companies" with reputable or not doctors, If you look deep enough , you'll also find doctors amputating the wrong limb, but that doesn't mean that this is normal either.

2) Patients whose orders were rejected by these companies and went into personal bankruptcy in order to pay for their ailments;

You probably find cases like this , probably worse, but not only the great majority get the care they need and paid for, but those that were "wronged" are not without choices, they can march to court and make their case if they are right, lawyers take this cases free of charge.

3) Indigent people being sacked from private clinics and abandoned at the entrance of public hospitals;

This is a favorite propaganda piece of the leftists of the world.

indigents are transfered not "sacked" to public hospitals after they have been stabilized not before, by law they can not be denied service or thrown out the door, (or they can sue the Hospital) private Hospital treat this people and the un-insured for free (or very low rates) as they are financed and reimbursed by the taxpayers. In life , nothing comes for free!!!

4) The revelation (for me at least) that Hillary Clintons public healthcare projects during Bills first term as President were forgotten as soon as some of these companies became heavy supporters of her campaign.

Hillary Clinton's heathcare initiatives were rejected by the public at large back then, not just the "companies". Americans want to improve the Heath System through careful legislation, not re-invent it under Socialist failed policies.

The filmmaker compares the U.S. system with those of Canada, England and France, and ends taking some rescue heroes of 9-11 (whose medical treatment couldnt be sustained by those companies) to Cuba to be cured in public hospitals.

In cuba if you are a foreigner you get good care in exclusive hospitals reserved for the tourist, since they pay with hard currency not Pesos, ( remember your Drug addict soccer player ??) your average Cubans can't even find an aspirin, they need to bring a light bulb to their own surgical operation, and hope the water is not cut off before the surgeon scrubs.

Right now the island's Doctors are 'whored' away to pay the national debt to Chavez and Evo, while in the Cuba's interior the people suffer because of the lack of Doctors.

Michael Moore's rosy picture of Cuban Health system is designed to snare the un-informed.