Is there a middle ground?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Easy, cheap and smug for a Canadian to say when you've been living under our protection for the last 60 years. Just like the Europeans. You have the freedom to divert tax money from your own national defense to social programs because the U.S. has protected Canada and Western Europe since WWII.

The Canadian military is a joke. Just like the liberal government in Ottawa.

Not only that , they have but a fraction of the US population to worry about (30 million) and still the country is tittering on the verge of bankruptcy under the weight of catastrophic irresponsible social programs the liberal government can't pay for, the so call Universal Health system is in disarray, with loads of Canadians crossing the border for care or looking for a life saving operation, and Doctor are quitting their practice in huge numbers cause they can make a better living in another line of work, many are moving south, and talk about government intrusion and excessive control, the Canadian Government prohibits it's citizens from buying private insurance while at the same time refusing to send you abroad for un-available treatment at home, even if your life depends on it, in effect they force the population to suffer through a mediocre Health system while Tax and Spend Socialist Liberals mis-manage the excessive backbreaking taxes they collect from the working class, but what else is new.

In the UK the picture is even worse, the wait list is life threatening and if you need a Dentist, well, for get about it… ...

Keep these disasters to your self! Our system is not working well at the moment but it is infinitely better than anything any crummy socialist has to offer….

[paul]

Originally Posted by Graham_Start

No, because the dominant forces have made it such that anything that deviates from the ruling policy is "extremist".

Such people would consider me a "leftist" for my belief in socialized medice, which is laughable, as I have no love for unions or state-run economies. It's noteworthy that such people who are so quick to jump on socialized medicine are usually the same ones who have never visited a country which actually has it.

Such people have made the term "feminist" equate with man-hating, separatist, lesbian "feminazis", when the term actually just means someone who believes in equality for women. So, one cannot believe in female equality without being an extremist.

Such people have made the term "liberal" equal with someone who supports Stalinism, infanticide, and crushing of the human spirit. In fact, the term "liberal" is based on the word "liberty" and liberals support more freedoms, not less. So, to support personal freedom is to now be an extremist hell bent on destroying The Family.

Such people scream and protest that any non-Republican government is all about Big Government and Taking Control Of People's Lives, when in fact, the Republicans have created a far bigger government which has plunged the US economy deep into the red. With their various wars and theocratically-inspired morality laws, they have done far more to control the lives of individuals than any government in the past 40 years.

You can't have a non-extreme opinion when the very words you would use are taken away from you. We really have reached the point were war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.

Exactly Graham! You've hit on so many points I agree with on.
Also be sure to note that not all of us to the south of you are xenophobes.
In a way I don't totally blame the yahoos in this country. The corporate media has spoon fed them an intellectually malnourished diet wrapped up in the sort of patriotism that swept through Nazi Germany. The irony here is with the access to information all over the world, they either don't use it to exercise critical thinking or there minds have completely bought the shrub regime rhetoric. Half of 'em will tell you Iraqis were the 9/11 hijackers.
They bash the economic situation in Canada and Europe. They complete ignore the record deficits we are running here under republicans. Our money honcho, Alan Greenspan said this a few weeks ago and they ignore it. Funny thing is, while the bash the commies it's the commie Chinese that's helping keep our economy afloat by buying our bonds. The Saudis are doing the same as well.
As for bashing the Canadian military, I seem to remember they patrolled the skies of the western hemisphere while we were supposed to be getting Osama...yeah that guy. The wingnuts here don't even talk about him anymore because their boy in DC didn't get him despite the cowboy rhetoric. Last time I saw him he looked tanned and more rested.
Of course there is the Orwellian double speak that spews from the White House that the lobotomized here accept. The funniest is Shrub's clear skies initiatives which relaxed restrictions on smoke stacks. Like Al Franken says, when they said clear skies they mean clear the skies of birds.

[DISCODISK]

[quote="Mixmachine"

In the UK the picture is even worse, the wait list is life threatening and if you need a Dentist, well, for get about it… ...

[/quote]

but the difference is here healthcare is FREE ,and yes the system is under strain it has to be with medical advances from the time this system was started,and one day it will have to change,but for now if you arrive in an ambulance nobody asks if you have insurance they just treat you.

[markydefad]

DD,

See next post.

[markydefad]

DD,

We here in the U.S. prefer to spend billions fighting wars in foreign countries---preparing the Middle East for DEMOCRACY. :roll: They loves us over there ....strewing flowers and blowing air kisses at our tanks!!! :P

Fuck health care for the citizens of the U.S. If ya lose your job and you can't afford to pay the outrageous premiums--FUCK YOU YOU LOSER!!!!!! :P :P :P

We're paving the way for democracy in the Middle East. And, incidentally, lining the pockets of Halliburton and all the cronies and asslickers of the Repugs. Someone "misplaced" 9 BILLION DOLLARS over there... no big whoop. Just a clerical error, M'KAY? R U buyin' that???? :oops:

Once the smoke & mirror 24 hour a day non-stop coverage double feature of Save Terry Shiavo/The Pope IS STILL DEAD is finally over (PLEEEEEEEASSSSE!!!)....I think we're gonna have fun watching the arrogance of the Repugs bite them in their big fat crooked asses. Tom DELAY is goin' down...just like Newt did.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[DiscoMan]

Paul you really are pullin' your pud too much.

Cretien is a pinhead, Paul Martin only slightly less so.

And all of you pussies who want the government to do this or do that to take care of you don't have the balls, intelligence or ambition to take care of yourselves and THAT is the difference between us. The Chinese are going to eat you alive!

We should have killed the first pilgrim who got off the Mayflower, just look at the sad cases they have bequeathed us. :evil:

[paul]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Paul you really are pullin' your pud too much.

Cretien is a pinhead, Paul Martin only slightly less so.

And all of you pussies who want the government to do this or do that to take care of you don't have the balls, intelligence or ambition to take care of yourselves and THAT is the difference between us. The Chinese are going to eat you alive!

We should have killed the first pilgrim who got off the Mayflower, just look at the sad cases they have bequeathed us. :evil:

I quite enjoy pulling my pud actually. The nuns only said it would affect my vision which it has, not my ability to reason.
Umm, I'd be careful about mockin' other nations heads of state. Remember we have a guy in the White House who can barely string 2 sentences together, and he choked on a pretzel.
Hmm, based on what you've said the libertarian approach is what you prefer. At one point I used to lean towards that kind of social darwinism. In my view however humanity would not approach the sort civilization where there is some attempt at equity. Would you tell the disabled to fend for themselves for example?
As for the pilgrims, who knows where we would have been.

[Mixmachine]

[quote=DISCODISK][quote="Mixmachine"

In the UK the picture is even worse, the wait list is life threatening and if you need a Dentist, well, for get about it… ...

[/quote]

but the difference is here healthcare is FREE ,and yes the system is under strain it has to be with medical advances from the time this system was started,and one day it will have to change,but for now if you arrive in an ambulance nobody asks if you have insurance they just treat you.

Discodisk, my friend, I hope you are able to find a system that works that the USA can emulate, I would be the first one to support it, but you are not there yet, are you? and I'm sorry to tell you this, but there is nothing free in this world regardless of what economic or political system you live under, someone, someplace has to pay for the goods and services with either excessive taxes or hard free work, in many cases like Cuba both, I rather keep my money off the hands of government bureaucrat and make my own way.

[nrgbeat]

Everyone else has had their bitch session so I will have mine.
This will be less about politics than the other responses.

My biggest issue with liberals is this political correctness crap.

While I don't condone racial slurs, when I grew up, referring to someone as an American Indian or an Oriental wasn't offensive or a racial slur. Nowadays it is. Why? because some liberal said so or did we all become overly sensitive?

Some people want to be called black, some people are offended by black and want to be called African American. Some people want to be called Hispanic, some are offended by the term Hispanic and prefer Latino. Give me a break!!

What's next Protestant American, Orthodox Jewish American, Black Gay Jehovah Witness American?

Regarding the use of God in the Pledge of Allegiance and on money. Why is this suddenly an issue when we have been doing this for years?

Soon stores won't be able to decorate for Christmas because that's offensive to non-Christians.

[Bernie]

nrg,
Definitely agree on this PC bull. Everyone is now looking for an excuse to go off on someone and fain being offended.

As a person of Puerto Rican heritage I do resent the new shoved-down-everyone's throat term Latino. I am a Hispanic NOT Latino. Latino is a term that has its roots in the lower echelons of Hispanic society and I want no part of it.

Going back to the Pledge of Allegiance, you are missing the often ignored point that the word god was never originally in it. It was added in recent history by politicians. Same goes for money. Find an older bill and you will see that it does NOT say "In god we trust." It's almost as though it was added to provoke and throw it in everyone's face. Then we have the so called liberals who instead of doing the sensible thing and ask to simply keep the pledge, but remove the two words now ask that we not recite the pledge at all in school. That's just alienating all those like me who are Democrats. You aren't going to win any friends by being on either extreme.

[DiscoMan]

I'm half Indian and half French NOT half "Native American"!!!!!
And actually a member of a spefic tribe which is the most accurate description.
That pisses me right the fuck off.
Another pinhead liberal term. :evil:

Shit, they really, really need to overcome their neuroses.

[Videoskooter]

If you guys ever would vote in Belgium you certainly will not support the Greenies or the Socialists here I guess. Me neither. I'm a very tolerant and caring person but the bull they are selling is taking our nation down.

First of all they lie about everything and unfortunately a whole lot of people still believe them and by falisifying every statistic they keep in power coz a lot of voters trust em. Just like in the communist states during the cold war.

We have a non-existing army, led by a socialist (=communist in real terms) minister and the only way we can defend ourselves are our nuclear weapons which are stationed here on American bases. Without the support from the US or the UK, Europe is a mouse and our heavenly politicians still don't get it. They are way to busy collecting their benefits and fat bonuses.

Their answer: we don't need all these arms because we believe in peace and we are safe because we talk with people and they never gonna attack us. Then they got the nerve to say that the bad Americans are the reason of every conflict. Wake up Commies! If one would decide to attack us, who would defend Europe? The French? The Germans? Don't make me laugh. No Europe will be saved by political correctness (if you believe that one :D )! A European army? They don't even bloody understand eachother! And how many people were killed under communist regimes? Don't talk about that with the leftists here, they will simply denie it.

[Videoskooter]

And replying to Bernie: IMO you're right about mentioning God in pledges and on bills. Everybody's free to believe what he wants but State and Church have to be separated. Poland, which is a very Catholic nation has joined the EEC now and I welcome them but in a few years Turkey will also be joining and that is a Islamic nation. I just hope that we are not gonna have a devastating religious war over here when those two partners begin to stress their demands. Certainly not in an EEC that also has many Protestants. Leave religion in the sanctity of the family. .

[paul]

Originally Posted by nrgbeat

Everyone else has had their bitch session so I will have mine.
This will be less about politics than the other responses.

My biggest issue with liberals is this political correctness crap.

While I don't condone racial slurs, when I grew up, referring to someone as an American Indian or an Oriental wasn't offensive or a racial slur. Nowadays it is. Why? because some liberal said so or did we all become overly sensitive?

Some people want to be called black, some people are offended by black and want to be called African American. Some people want to be called Hispanic, some are offended by the term Hispanic and prefer Latino. Give me a break!!

What's next Protestant American, Orthodox Jewish American, Black Gay Jehovah Witness American?

Regarding the use of God in the Pledge of Allegiance and on money. Why is this suddenly an issue when we have been doing this for years?

Soon won't be able to decorate for Christmas because that's offensive to non-Christians.

Well, to an extent I can relate the excesses of PC. I think this usually overstated though. I prefer African-American over Black but I wont get bent if someone says I'm Black. In fact I usually use Black as a shorthand.
I'm glad you made an issue of The Pledge Of Allegiance. Feel free to research this. You will find it was the Knights of Columbus who pushed Congress to in the '50s to add under god. It was never there before. The '50s was the big McCarthy commie scare period. Sound familiar. A little more research will also show he the pledge actually originated with a socialist at the turn of the last century. You wingnuts may feel a little differently now. Then again, this may be more than repugs can digest. My larger point is if we (liberals) don't fight what seems to be minor issues now, they mushroom. Given the state of reason in this country right now, who knows how detrimental these seemingly trivial issues might turn out to be. As a sidenote, I oppose a pledge of allegiance for the same reasons I suppose many "first world" nations don't have it. In a free democratic nation, why do we need a pledge of allegiance. True patriotism in my view is not demonstrated by saying a pledge. It's in the deeds.

[DiscoMan]

Videoskooter, it's really very sad that you Euros have put yourselves in the situation you're in politically and economically.
I've really always liked Europeans - except the French and the Germans. I've been to Europe on vaca and everyone was very nice to me except the French and the Germans so...

America is a conservative country - it has always been a conservative country. We take care of our most vulnerable citizens but that's about as far as our liberalism goes for many of us.

Many Americans don't give a frog's (Frenchman's) fat ass about what happens in Europe anymore - every time we have gotten involved in Euro affairs it has cost us dearly in blood and treasure (including my family) and many Americans aren't willing to do it again. You all couldn't even slap down Slobodan Milosevicz (I wouldn't have slapped down Slobo either) until we came to your rescue! Again!

We have probably entered a new cold war and Europe may well be on it's way to political and economic ruin - again. Oh well, myself and many other Americans would not support the U.S. rescuing Europe from Europeans a third time.

You can always immigrate to the U.S.. You would be most welcome. :D