Pres Politics

[QUINNY]

The name may not be right, but the US (and other governments) do have the capacity to listen in to every phone call and to read every email and fax that's ever sent.
This has probably been utilised even more since 9/11.

[paul]

Hey Quinny. I've heard tham discuss Carnivore. That is supposed check out all the email traffic.
I do agree though that they have had the ability to check out the various forms of communications pre 9/11. That's why I believe it's bullshit that Bush is giving people. They knew that the hijackings were gonna happen, perhaps not as devastating but they knew. It was too well coordinated. They needed a pretext to do the shit they're doing now.

[paul]

Well I just heard Sean Hannity admit twice, something us Dean supporters have known all along. Oh, for those who wouldn't know, Hannity is a big time conservative republican radio and tv talk show host. He stated that unlike Kerry, Dean has core beliefs in liberalism and doesn't run from it. That it is why I always felt Bush and his fellow repubs went after Dean and despite the glib talk, feared him most. Now the repubs seem almost unfazed by Kerry even though politically they've had a tough few months. The polls have the two in a statistical dead heat. Quite frankly, Kerry should up by at least 10 points with all the crap that's going on but I don't think people know where Kerry is coming from. :evil:

[Nano]

A modest contribution:

1) I agree 100% with Graham's post. Quinny's also right (that's why Graham mentioned the oil companies).
2) I also agree with Paul in that Dean seemed like the perfect opponent. However, is the Americans who will vote :)
3) And here's the important thing for me: you Americans have to vote! I can't believe when I read the papers on the US elections saying that only, like, 30% of the people voted. The other 70% was the chief responsible of the scandals of the last presidential election, IMHO.
In my country vote is obbligatory and we're taught at schools that voting is a right but also a duty. Then, of course there are many ways to bribe a vote (and most are put in use in our own elections), but from the outside it seems like most of the US citizens just doesn't care about who rules!
Someone said that right now the US President is a bit like the world's President (with the US geopolitical position and all). Well, as a citizen of the world, this thing Americans have with going to vote worries me. :o

[paul]

Hey Nano.
You're right in criticizing the dismal voter turnout in the states. Most people here are like "whatever." These guys are all the same. I know it's an excuse but that's a popular mindset.
Quite frankly, I also believe the people in the inner circle at the highest levels of business, the media, and politics are happy about this because it maintains the status quo. Anyone that might actually bring about significant changes face anything from media destruction to quite possibly death.

[Jeff H]

I love this comment made last week by Nancy Pelosi (she's a member of the House of Representatives from California and the Democratic leader of the House, for our non-U.S. friends or those who don't pay attention to politics. And if you don't, why the hell NOT??! :evil: This November's election is rather important, if you ask me....)

Ahem... Anyway, Pelosi said: "Bush is an incompetent leader. In fact, he's not a leader. He's a person who has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge of the subjects that he has to decide upon.... The shallowness that he has brought to the office has not changed since he got there.... The president's capacity to lead has never been there. In order to lead, you have to have judgment. In order to have judgment, you have to have knowledge and experience. He has none."

Bravo, Nancy! And you too, Graham! Like someone else said, if only U.S. voters were as informed about the issues here as you are! (And if Bushwhacked wins in November, maybe my next trip to Toronto will be permanent. )

Unlike many Democrats, I was never sold on Dean, but I will admit I am not overly thrilled with Kerry as the nominee (although his wife Teresa Heinz Kerry is a philanthropic legend here in Pittsburgh and a woman known for speaking her mind. She'd make a great First Lady--and her sons from her first marriage are damn cute too! ). I just think it's imperative that the Democrats nominate a candidate who can win back the White House.

I guess that makes me one of those "ABBA" voters: Anyone But Bush Again! :D

[DISCODISK]

i was just shocked to read your president has fell off his bike :o he must have been on the way to the bookshop heres for a speedy recovery dubya :lol:

[Jeff H]

Originally Posted by DISCODISK

he must have been on the way to the bookshop

I don't think Bushie has seen the inside of a bookshop in his life!

Unfortunately, the joke's really on the US people.

[SandraDee]

Even Quinny's read more books than Dubya. :lol:

[QUINNY]

Nope, even George W is ahead of me on that!!

[SandraDee]

At least you don't start wars Q. (except maybe on this forum! :-? )

[QUINNY]

Steely: You know, if I were a president I'd claim neutrality for my country. I'm deeply hurt that I'm looked upon as a warmonger by anyone, considering my hippie credentials. :oops: :cry:
I've always found it kinda weird that the German's didn't invade Switzerland during the second world war. Think of all the money and art treasures they would have got their hands on. But no, Switzerland said they were neutral and everyone respected it. Why???????

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Jeff H

Ahem... Anyway, Pelosi said: "Bush is an incompetent leader. In fact, he's not a leader. He's a person who has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge of the subjects that he has to decide upon.... The shallowness that he has brought to the office has not changed since he got there.... The president's capacity to lead has never been there. In order to lead, you have to have judgment. In order to have judgment, you have to have knowledge and experience. He has none."

Bravo, Nancy! And you too, Graham! Like someone else said, if only U.S. voters were as informed about the issues here as you are! (And if Bushwhacked wins in November, maybe my next trip to Toronto will be permanent. )

And you love this comment? Unbelievable.

This is one of the most irresponsible statements ever uttered by a Member of Congress and it’s been criticized all over like it should, you can disagree with the policies and criticize/debate the decisions, but publicly insulting a sitting president and Commander in chief in time of war on a personal level like this? Shameful

With the exception of discredited Ted Kennedy (calling the President a traitor) and a few other usual suspects, this kind of personal attacks was never part of American Democracy and represents a new "Low” even for Liberals; Democrats should be ashamed to have elected someone like this as head of the minority in congress, but I guess it speaks volumes about how truly out of step the ultra-left liberal controlled Democratic party is, and they still can’t figure out why they are booted out of office in all 50 states. :lol:

It’s also very interesting that you place such confidence on foreigners opinions over that of American voters, read some of the posting above again, some of this guys would like nothing less than to see you destroyed and begging for mercy!

[paul]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

And you love this comment? Unbelievable.

This is one of the most irresponsible statements ever uttered by a Member of Congress and it’s been criticized all over like it should, you can disagree with the policies and criticize/debate the decisions, but publicly insulting a sitting president and Commander in chief in time of war on a personal level like this? Shameful

With the exception of discredited Ted Kennedy (calling the President a traitor) and a few other usual suspects, this kind of personal attacks was never part of American Democracy and represents a new "Low” even for Liberals; Democrats should be ashamed to have elected someone like this as head of the minority in congress, but I guess it speaks volumes about how truly out of step the ultra-left liberal controlled Democratic party is, and they still can’t figure out why they are booted out of office in all 50 states. :lol:

It’s also very interesting that you place such confidence on foreigners opinions over that of American voters, read some of the posting above again, some of this guys would like nothing less than to see you destroyed and begging for mercy!

Hey Mixmachine. I think you should check American history, recent and past. I remember Republicans in the Senate attacking former President Clinton when he got involved with NATO airstrikes in Kosovo. They called it Clinton's war and a diversion away from Monica's cum stained dress. Also my recollection of history, in particular WW II suggests there was considerable debate over US involvement in a European war.
I am a liberal but I have no particular love for the spineless Dems. Pelosi has generally been one. Having said that, I believe we still have a First Ammendment Right to free speech. I know during much of the shallow flag waving patriotism that the constitution took a back seat. Some of us, myself included, still support that document. Isn't that what we're suppose to fighting for and defending?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by paul

Hey Mixmachine. I think you should check American history, recent and past.

But I do , Is one of my fave subjects.

Originally Posted by paul

I remember Republicans in the Senate attacking former President Clinton when he got involved with NATO airstrikes in Kosovo. They called it Clinton's war and a diversion away from Monica's cum stained dress.

Clinton was mainly criticized for launching an ineffective attack and blowing up a Pharmaceutical factory in Sudan; but in any case the one big difference is that He opened the door for this accusations/attacks because of un-disputed evidence and facts, She had presidential cum in her dress, on National TV he lied to my face about it, and he was impeached for it! Much of this new brand of personal destructive political behavior and division we see today is a product of his Presidential "Legacy".

Originally Posted by paul

Also my recollection of history, in particular WW II suggests there was considerable debate over US involvement in a European war.

As it should be, debate is healthy, but when you start to launch personal insults with out merit at the Leader of the land, that's were I draw the line, Do you really think you get to be President of the US by been stupid?

Originally Posted by paul

I am a liberal but I have no particular love for the spineless Dems. Pelosi has generally been one.

And maybe you should do something about it when she comes up for re-election.

Originally Posted by paul

Having said that, I believe we still have a First Ammendment Right to free speech.

And you do, but if you utter such insults without merit at a private citizen they may be grounds for liable.

Originally Posted by paul

of the shallow flag waving patriotism that the constitution took a back seat. Some of us, myself included, still support that document. Isn't that what we're suppose to fighting for and defending?

Agreed, But other than a sketch on the Tonight Show I don't think that launching indiscriminate personal insults at your leader in public is what the Founders had in mind. But I guess times are changing......