On seeing "Sicko"

[Nano]

I have to say the picture Michael Moore does about public hospitals sounds a bit too positive here (but of course, Buenos Aires does not have the best budget for that). However, his view on the U.S. sanity system looks pretty scary. In the last decade, there was a rush of new private firms doing pre-pay healthcare down here, on the basic premise that we were imitating the U.S. policy on the matter (we tend to see "how they do it" as the rule). But people have very similar complains to those I saw in this documentary... The difference being that we still have a big net of public hospitals for those who can't pay their healthcare.

Just wanted to hear your opinion...

[DiscoMan]

Michael Moore is primarily a left-wing propagandist and you must keep that in mind when watching any film manufactured by him.

[Videoskooter]

Because I don't know this for sure: if you don't have the finances and you need urgent medical treatment in the US,then who's paying the bill???

Discoman is right on Michael Moore though. It's obvious that sometimes his criticism is justified but he has a hidden political agenda and he's a manipulatortoo.

And I always LMAO when a so called man of the people and semi-communist lives in total luxury but tries to put on a smokescreen by making this kind of movies and dresses in a jeans that obviously hasn't been washed for a decade.

Now, if Paul would make movies like this

[DiscoMan]

No one in the U.S. is ever denied medical care. US hospitals hand out FREE hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in free medical care to the indigent, vagrant, poor and un-insured every year. That's one reason why our private medical insurance is so expensive - the insured pay for the un-insured. Hospital emergency rooms all over the USA are packed with the un-insured waiting for care - care that they are not denied - BY LAW. Walk into any hospital emgerncy room and see for yourself. Sure we have have problems that need to be addressed and resolved. Those problems are primarly focused on the outrageous premiums employers here in the USA pay for health insurance for their employees and they are rebelling. U.S. automaker General Motors adds to the price of each vehicle it sells $1500.00 US to pay for the health insurance of it's retirees, for example. Insured people in the USA are hosed for outrageously higher premiums, drugs and medical procedures to pay for those who don't have insurance - afterall there is no such thing as a free lunch. And one more thing...Americans don't go to Canada for medical treatment but Canadians in the tens of thousands come here for ours...

Of course left-wing nit-wits like Michael Moore don't tell you that.

[remicks]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

No one in the U.S. is ever denied medical care. US hospitals hand out FREE hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in free medical care to the indigent, vagrant, poor and un-insured every year. That's one reason why our private medical insurance is so expensive - the insured pay for the un-insured. Hospital emergency rooms all over the USA are packed with the un-insured waiting for care - care that they are not denied - BY LAW. Walk into any hospital emgerncy room and see for yourself. Sure we have have problems that need to be addressed and resolved. Those problems are primarly focused on the outrageous premiums employers here in the USA pay for health insurance for their employees and they are rebelling. U.S. automaker General Motors adds to the price of each vehicle it sells $1500.00 US to pay for the health insurance of it's retirees, for example. Insured people in the USA are hosed for outrageously higher premiums, drugs and medical procedures to pay for those who don't have insurance - afterall there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Is this defending it ... or pointing out how shitty it is !!!


*****

[DiscoMan]

It's not defending it and it's not shitty. Just shining a little light of truth on Moore's dishonest propagnda.

[Videoskooter]

In Belgium we probably have 1 of the most envied social security systems in the world (Scandinavian countries have something similar).

The system is based on the same principle. If you pay an employee 1 Euro, in fact you pay an additional 1,5 Euro to the state. The employee's Euro is also topped off with a fixed fee.

All that money goes into a kind of fund. That money serves to pay the sick people (wage + medical costs), unemployed and the wages for retired people.

Every Belgian is also obliged to pay a monthly fee to a health insurance fund (the choice is free: catholic, socialist, liberal or non-political). When we buy medication that is proscribed by a doctor, we only pay a percentage of that price + we get a part of the Doctor's fee back, the rest is payed by that health insurance fund.

Of course this is not the case for f.i. plastic surgery except when it is for health reasons.

If a boss fires you, you get 80% of your wage during a year and then 60%.

People who aren't insured at all can go to the city welfare fund which is obliged by law to give you a roof above your head and the means that are necessary to live (money, food, clothes).

Now there's always parasites who don't want to work at all (in Belgium you can be unemployed during your whole life and still get that wage) but in general I and a majority of the Belgians are very satisfied about this system.

[paul]

Originally Posted by remicks

Is this defending it ... or pointing out how shitty it is !!!


*****

Well, exactly remicks. All of these Walmart republicans believe in stupid shit. I have grown tired of even arguing with their nonsensical aguments. As you said, is DM trying to defend the current US system with the argument he just made? Many of these people have swallowed the swill of the last 30 years of conservative bullcrap. These arguments only makes sense in a selfish way if you are in the top 1 percent of income earners who don't give a rat's ass about humanity in general. The vast majority of these repubs types however aren't nowhere near that and will stupidly argue that they want a health care system that might bankrupt their asses or if they don't have the money, force doctors to compromise the treatment they get.
Engaging in any sensible debate with the repub zombies is as meaningful as having a discussion with your dog.

[paul]

Johan, since Sicko is driving home a serious point I would probably leave it the way it is. I find it to be Moore's best movie. That said, I would also make the kind of movies with Rosalind Sanchez and Eva Mendes gettin' it on with me :)
Anyway, Moore isn't hiding the fact that he's liberal and that is a good thing. That has been the way I have known him for 20 years.
Of course you know being well off and having compassion for your fellow man is not mutually exclusive. It's just that the recent crop of conservatives once again show the nastiness of being wealthy feudal lords which they prefer to be. These sorts of people have long been a sore spot in humanity.

[DiscoMan]

Bernie, I find Paul's post insulting and offensive. Sanctions are required here. Or does discomusic.com subscribe to the double standard, with sanctions applied to only those who criticize the left?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Bernie, I find Paul's post insulting and offensive. Sanctions are required here. Or does discomusic.com subscribe to the double standard, with sanctions applied to only those who criticize the left?

exactly, apparently if you are a domestic (transplanted leech) anti-American leftist, or a foreign communist from a bankrupt third world country, you’ll have free reigns around this pages to launch verbal insulting attacks on America and it's citizens.

“Double Standards” is putting it mildly.

[markydefad]

I agree whole-heartedly with Paul. It's not worth arguing with these creeps.

Hopefully, your right-wing neocon ship is sinking in disgrace; unfortunately, Herr Bush has done such damage to this country that it may take decades to repair....get used to being in the bottom-feeder position for several decades....you can always say "I didn't vote for him,...I didn't...I didn't...oh yeah, I did--but he lied to me!!!"

Yeah, right.

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by paul

All of these Walmart republicans believe in stupid shit.

ROTF~!!!:i con_smile:
I highly recommend it

[markydefad]

When Michael Moore is viewed as an enemy of America because he shines a light on the outrageous current US policy of healthcare for profit..."insure those who don't need it/ deny coverage to those who do---keep the stockholders happy---keep the PROFITS up!!!" ya gotta wonder WTF is wrong with these people who HATE Michael Moore so vehemently? Is it because he's been soooo RIGHT....watch "Farenheit 9/11" again and see if everything he predicted was not dead on accurate.

Since when is "compassion" for the welfare of your fellow man--ANTI-AMERICAN???--except in the minds of raving nutcases????

Congress should lose those cushy healthcare plans they have....let them pay for their medical expenses out their own damn insurance co/pharmaceutical lobby-lined pockets. If it's good enough for the "people" --it's good enough for the "entitled"---except they have the means to pay, thanks to their lobby-lined pockets.

Cheers to Michael Moore--an American hero....in a time of so few. Cheers to Russ Feingold too....other than that...there's slim pickins' out there. Such a sad, shameful time....the government is run like the mafia...and the the chief law enforcer is a lying crook. WTF???

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by markydefad

Congress should lose those cushy healthcare plans they have....let them pay for their medical expenses out their own damn insurance co/pharmaceutical lobby-lined pockets. If it's good enough for the "people" --it's good enough for the "entitled"---except they have the means to pay, thanks to their lobby-lined pockets.

First: let's all stay calm, we all know that this is the danger zone of the board All opinions go here, left or right but when we start insulting each other, the topic is ruined and that's a shame coz' Nano started a thread that can be very interesting if it gets rational replies.

Marky, can you explain this to me coz' I haven't seen "Sicko" and I don't know what kind of plans you're talking here. Paul also has touched that.

Discoman, Mixmachine, feel free to reply (in a civilised way of course, same goes for the others too!) why the current US health system is good in your point of view or what should be changed eventually.

Regarding the insults on the American President: feel lucky that you can still do that without getting fined or jailed. That's called democracy. Belgians can not insult the Belgian King or a member of the government without being indicted and we sure ain't no fascist country. If a Venezuelan or Cuban insults his head of state (the heroes of a dear member here) he's jailed, period. That's not Democracy, so please let's put it all into the right (or left) perspective.

If you're so keen on using the term "Bush Crime Family", then take 'em to court and prove it! That's Democracy, that's Justice, otherwise be a little restraint.