The devil came here yesterday

[DiscoMan]

"Has anyone pondered the good Castro might possibly have brought to Cuba had he been allowed to carry out his original goals and had the US not succeeded in doing everything possible to thwart them ? The odds of any success were highly stacked against him .... wouldn't you agree ?"

Are you shittin' me!?

Remicks; you better go back to school...

[remicks]

*******

NO ... I ain't shittin' you .

Anybody else besides Discoman give any thought to how different the world might be if countries were allowed to determine their own destinies?? (and also .... therefore how the USA, in turn, wouldn't be hated so much ) ......

*****

[DiscoMan]

Remicks...go back to school.

[remicks]

*****

......maybe a little reprogramming to unquestioningly accept all that self-promoting US propagandist stuff such as the proclamation of our religious entitlement to a "manifest destiny" ???? ( Boy , wouldn't we be viewed as radical religious extremists if we reapplied that assertion today :???: )

Sorry DM, I caught on to all that the first time around!!!:razz:

[paul]

Can I post.

[paul]

Good, either Bernie had server problems or DM's secret police were monitoring my posts :-o
Anyway, I wanted to post that Pre-Castro Cuba was rife with coruuption as well as being in the grip of the mafia and similar tropical gangsters. Castro's government brought in a higher literacy rate, greater access to medical care, and the removal of the mafia's grip.
Perhaps Mix can add or correct what I posted here

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by paul

Good, either Bernie had server problems or DM's secret police were monitoring my posts

Paul, you are monitored but not by Bernie or Discoman.

[DiscoMan]

In God I trust... all others I monitor...:p

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by paul

Anyway, I wanted to post that Pre-Castro Cuba was rife with coruuption as well as being in the grip of the mafia and similar tropical gangsters. Castro's government brought in a higher literacy rate, greater access to medical care, and the removal of the mafia's grip.
Perhaps Mix can add or correct what I posted here

Nice baiting job, Paul. But I’m afraid you have watched to many leftist’s Hollywood movies. )(Godfather? Havana?)

I usually don’t debate Cuba issues any longer, what’s the use, especially since after 45+ years the irreparable damage has been done, and sadly IMO (and that of many ), is going to take several generations of Cubans (with luck) after Castro is gone to repair the damage inflicted.


I always marveled at how little understanding your average American has of what really happened in Cuba with Castro.:roll:

It seems like the American left (especially publications like the NY Times) was able to sell America a version of the events that became “facts” through the years (by repetition) despite all the contradicting evidence (maybe it will be corrected in the future):roll:

Yes, Batista and his cronies in the Army and police were out of control (not so much before Batista), but even so, under Batista life was infinite better for the great majority than under Castro by a long shot. Poverty and hunger will always be part of the Human landscape anywhere, but by far , even the poorest of Cubans, in general terms, never went hungry and/or begging in the streets (like many Latin American countries today), this image of Batista’s Cuba (or Cuba in general) is mostly bullshit.

Despite what the American left and the ‘useful fools’ of the world have fed the world (about the revolution), the Cuban revolution had nothing to do with poverty, discrimination or hunger, the poor class never revolted like they did during the French or Russian revolutions.

The Cuban revolution was a ‘middle class’ revolution, Castro’s families and most of those around him including his supporters were mostly wealthy middleclass, for instance, the only reason Castro after his captured was able to avoid execution was because of his family’s political connections with the Church and government, I’m sure their money came very handy too, if he had been an average Joe, we wouldn’t be here discussing the issue.

The middle class supported Castro because they wanted to get rid of Batista since he was an illegitimate corrupt President ( hurting the economy) that disrupted the progress of Democracy in conjunction with the army, not because they were Socialist much less Communists, certainly not because the “poor” revolted around the country.

Once Castro consolidated his control, he betrayed everyone and executed, eliminated, and/or jailed (for 30 years in cases) almost all those around him including many that fought with him in the mountains (because they hated communism and they rebelled and took up arms against him); Castro even sent the scum of Che Guevara packing to Bolivia when he got to cocky and/or popular in some circles (reportedly to a certain death) , then Castro declared himself communist (more interested in Castrism) and re-invented the revolution ( along the Bolsheviks’ line) and sold this image of the ‘savior’ of the Cuban oppressed masses to the ‘useful fools’ of the world who through the left media promptly romanticized and disseminated this fairy tale around the world, The New York Times is greatly responsible for this..

Pre-Castro’s Cuba per capita income when compared with all of Latin American /Caribbean economies at the time was second only to Argentina, the numbers even ranked up there with the USA, I've read that the Cuban peso occasionally even surpassed the US dollar in market value, Cubans produced everything they needed to feed themselves and then some, today , Cuba even imports Sugar, which had always been Cuba’s biggest exporting commodity.

Rent or buy Andy Garcia’s “The Lost city” and listen to the commentary, lots of historical facts discussed there, this movie is even handed in the treatment of the subject, and accurately depicts many of the facts, (not to every cuban liking though)for instance, Castro’s movement was not the only one fighting Batista, Castro just became better known and then took credit for other’s actions while he crushed them at the same time.
Take a look at this fact clip published a few years back in the Miami Herald.

[paul]

The baiting worked didn't it and I learned a few things :lol:

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by paul

My hero at the UN. :lol:

"Violence and drug trafficking is also on the rise in Venezuela. Homicides have increased 66 percent and kidnapping 366 percent since Chávez took power in 1999, according to government statistics obtained by the Venezuelan criminologist Marcos Tarre Briceño. Local and foreign government investigators also say that drug trafficking organizations from Colombia and Mexico have set up shop in Venezuela."


"In addition, democracies remain fragile in Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia, and corruption is endemic throughout the region. For its part, Venezuela was ranked 130th out of 159 countries by the Germany-based Transparency International corruption watchdog group in its 2005 survey of the world."

From the Miami Herald

Maybe you should find more worthy heroes.

[paul]

The people of these respective countries will have to decide if they want their leaders.