Does Islam Need a Luther or a Pope?

[paul]

Ummm, ok. Hugs and kisses to you too mi amigo. 8-)

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by paul

Ummm, ok. Hugs and kisses to you too mi amigo. 8-)

That's a pathetic and childish reply and you know it.

Let's get back to the real topic. I've just found an interesting article on Madmufti:

Islamofascism

[paul]

You are on fire today huh. OK, I'll knock down your earth shaking points.
The Islamofascism link is to Denis Prager is well known right wing talk show host. He is very pro-Israel and a chickenhawk. By the way, I'm always fascinated by how easily the christian and as in this case, some jewish god loving people are quick to go to war. War should always be the avenue of last resort, not your first diplomatic position.
I'll get to the rest of your other stuff layta. I gotta take care of some business.

[Videoskooter]

Don't bother Paul. I can write your reply myself: if we say something you respond: "Rightwing Fascist Propaganda".

If you place a link, it's the only rightful one and certainly is not propaganda.

THOSE THINGS HAPPEN in Iran, my friend and it shows how dangerous that Reli-political system is!!!

Now, I really get tired of you stating that you live in a country runned by fascists. If you would publish in Iran the stuff you write here on your PRESIDENT, you would be decapitated. And that's no joke buddy!!!

The fact that you are writing this sh*t for a long time time now and the fact that you still are a free man, proves that you live in a rightful democracy and that there IS freedom of speech in the US. Maybe it's not a perfect democracy, but it still is a democracy. People like Madmufti don't believe in democracy, they don't believe in human rights, they are blinded by their religion and they can not hide that.

And you'll never knock me down 8-)

So, for myself, I'm closing this thread coz' we could go on for ages and I'm going to concentrate on the Music since we are heading for a very busy period over the next weeks and I won't have much time to post.

Paul, take care, and I'll be glad to meet you in the non-political forums ;-)

(BTW, if I ever make it to the US, we WILL go pubbin' together, that's a promise and we take Angelina with us :lol: )

[paul]

So umm, you get bummed out when I don't follow up or you you make up my mind for me and draw your own conclusions.
Johan, your hatred clouds your understanding. Do not equate my disgust for the bush crime family with my feelings for the US. If you can digest that part then I'll continue with the rest of your rant. Seems you need a little time out.
By the way, am I to assume your solution to the mideast is more wars? I didn't see a solution from you. I offered 1 possible solution. As I stated above, first digest what I said. Perhaps that's enough for you to chew on 8-)

[DiscoMan]

I've invited Paul to move to Massachusetts several times (on this board, so far he hasn't) where he can live the left wing socialist life style every day. He could also move to Canada or to France or to the USSR. He doesn't put his money where his mouth is so I question his courage in his convictions. In any case I no longer waste my time trying to have an intelligent debate with him...

Islam has always been a religion of the sword. Sure, excesses occured with Christianity but that isn't the issue today and those excesses ended with the Reformation 400 years ago.

People like Paul will celebrate their dhimmitude...

[paul]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

I've invited Paul to move to Massachusetts several times (on this board, so far he hasn't) where he can live the left wing socialist life style every day. He could also move to Canada or to France or to the USSR. He doesn't put his money where his mouth is so I question his courage in his convictions. In any case I no longer waste my time trying to have an intelligent debate with him...

Islam has always been a religion of the sword. Sure, excesses occured with Christianity but that isn't the issue today and those excesses ended with the Reformation 400 years ago.

People like Paul will celebrate their dhimmitude...

With all due respect Disocman, like much of your ilk (yes you too Johan ) you guys offer little in the way of intelligent political debate. Even in your above statement you reference a USSR that I should move to. Newsflash, there hasn't been a USSR in over a decade. This is the sort of thing you want me to intelligently debate? :o
Oh, and for the 100th time, I used to live in Massachusetts. Now I live in the left coast. I know this wont sink in. That's ok, I don't mind repeating this again in a few months 8)

[Bernie]

Since we've veered from the original topic how about taking a stab at it again? The original topic was, does Islam need a person such as Luther a.k.a. reformation or a Pope who can serve as a unifier and translator of ideas and rules?

It seems the reformation part already happened as we have the Sunnis and Shi`ites and in many ways is continuing with the Jihad minded terrorists forming their own brand of Islam.

As for a Pope figurehead... it seems Muslims can't even agree among themselves at this stage and everyone seems to want to follow their own sheik who of course has his own interpretations of things.

I could very well be wrong here, but it seems as if it is the moderate Muslims who need to become more vocal and bring some order to their religion by being adamant about non-violence... I find it telling that Pope Benedict says a few words about Muslims and violence and what's the first things Muslims do? Prove the Pope right by being violent.

[DiscoMan]

I tend to agree with you Bernie. Islam has never had a "titular" leadership position and for that matter neither has "protestantism" (all denominations under one leader) the Catholic Church does and this goes all the way back to Saint Peter (there is archeological evidence that Saint Peter's Basillica is built over the tomb of Saint Peter). Islam split in it's earliest days. Both side have hated and murdered one another since. And they both hate Christian Europe. The current situation isn't a war over Israel but the latest worldwide jihad in centuries of jihad. Islam has ALWAYS been violent this time is no different.

And many shites believe in the imminent return of the twelfth imam and will hasten his return with nuclear holocaust if they must. We are in for bloody violent times before things improve...are you ready?

Paul, just because the USSR "collapsed" doesn't mean that the bolsheviks disappeared...

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by paul

With all due respect Disocman, like much of your ilk (yes you too Johan ) you guys offer little in the way of intelligent political debate.

So you think you're an intelligent debater Paul 8) Typical. Everything "Ilk" like us post is denounced as idiotic semi-fascist right wing bollocks.

Every time you turn around a topic and spit your remarks it should be classified as wisdom and based on true facts 8)

If we place a link to underline our vision, it again is semi-fascist right-wing propaganda. When you place a link, it's the "truth".

And the fact that we don't come up with solutions? After your plan to move the Israelis to Texas, I, ehmmmm, don't feel like serious debating anymory. Sorry! That's the biggest bull I ever read, coming for you :evil:

You want solutions?

- Make Israël comply to all the United Nations resolutions!
- Thus, let them retreat to acceptable borders with respect for the Palistinians! They do have a right to live there too, if you like it or not!
- Use severe sanctions if they don't obey!
- When you see those things happen, protect Israël and give a clear sign to warn retards like Hezbollah, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and sh*theads like Ahmadinejad that they shouldn't even consider to attack them.
- Try to work out an acceptable solution for Jews and Palistinians so they can share and conservate their holy places.

That's an awful difficult mission but it can work.

And I only feel hate towards a-holes like the Iranian government and shitty cowards like Bin Laden. Sending out young people to commit suicide while staying safe and sheltered is simply CRIMINAL!

And that's all folks!

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by Bernie

I find it telling that Pope Benedict says a few words about Muslims and violence and what's the first things Muslims do? Prove the Pope right by being violent.

True fact Bernie! They will never get our support or sympathy when they continue to react like that. And you know what? All those masses you see parading on the streets, burning flags, destroying buildings and churches are fired up by a growing fraction of Islam that simply wants to dominate the world.

That's the agenda of those instigators and the idea of them getting a Pope or a "super-imam" is honourable but at this moment complete out of the question.

I want to live my life as a free man and I will never accept a sharia or an extreme leftist government like Chavez' or Castro's. And if I really have to choose a life under a Catholic/Protestant Bush or new-evangelical regime or under a regime run by pre-historical ayatollahs, I choose the first one.

I'm raised as a Catholic, I think there are many good things in the bible but I'm realistic enough to transpond that into the current world. For me, the bible is a good guide but I don't take or never took it litterally. And, I'm no better or worse person than all the people around me.

And I do respect the current Pope too. I had difficulties with his predecessor.

And if some around here call me a semi-fascist or a person who is trigger-happy or full of hate, so be it. I know that I'm not that kind of guy.

If peaceful solutions can be found I'm even a happy person! But some people unfortunately only understand the sound of violence and sometimes that violence is necessary. I live in a real world, not in Utopia.

And as for your remark on the moderate Muslems? I don't see them these days, do you? Where were the apoligies for 9/11? They were f*cking dancing on the streets of the Middle-East :evil:

Islamofascists should be taken care of the hard way and now! We had enough of them and it's time for them to back down.

[DiscoMan]

They're pulling the shit they're pulling because they can get away with it. Raise the price and those lousy primitive rag heads will crawl back to their third world shit sand dune like the cowards they are and have always been. They are the scourge of humanity. It's time the west knocked off the moral equivilancy bullshit and picked up the hatchet.

We haven't hit 'em hard enough - when we do they'll slime away once again.

I love the bomb.

[Videoskooter]

Can you imagine what the world will look like when these great democrats and altruïstic and intelligent rulers will have the bomb?

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-irn/index

Both links come from extreme-rightwing organisations :-)

[paul]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

They're pulling the shit they're pulling because they can get away with it. Raise the price and those lousy primitive rag heads will crawl back to their third world shit sand dune like the cowards they are and have always been. They are the scourge of humanity. It's time the west knocked off the moral equivilancy bullshit and picked up the hatchet.

We haven't hit 'em hard enough - when we do they'll slime away once again.

I love the bomb.

What countries do you want to nuke?

[DiscoMan]

Casablanca to Jakarta.