Should The U.S Attack Iran?

[Videoskooter]

So, and now finally back to the topic:

Today, Iran threatened to hide its nuclear installations so the Atomic Watchdog can't control 'em anymore.

Secondly, they announced they would share their nuclear knowledge with other countries.

War of words? Let's just hope!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

[dfc99bb]

We are dealing with the 21st century Hitler. All the negotiating with the EU and at the UN has only given Iran more time to develop it's nuclear weapons. Iran knows this as do the EU nations involved.

Once more the Europeans are being hypocritical. They desperately need Iranian oil to fuel their economies and are willing to let Iran get nukes in the process. Yet the same European countries whine endlessly about how America has not embraced energy efficiency as much as they supposedly have.

They really believe that by kissing up to the mullahs, they will be protected. No one has apprently shown them a map indicating that they will be in the range of Iran's missiles very shortly, if not already. The UN is once again proving it's utter uselessness. The UN will soon go the way of the League of Nations.

[paul]

dfc99bb, Iran has nukes? They also have delivery systems capable of reaching their targets better than Iraq's SCUD missiles? What would you like to do?

[paul]

Johan, there is a lot of sabre rattling on both sides.
Bush is about to explode a 700 ton....lemme say that a gain a 700 ton conventional explosive in the Nevada desert early June. Ignoring the impact of the dust (perhaps even from nuclear test from the 50's to the 80's) in the air after this thing is blasted, we have nothing to lift that monster. So lemme think, what's lighter than that and has the same explosive impact. I'll let you figure that out!

[DiscoMan]

They really believe that by kissing up to the mullahs, they will be protected. No one has apprently shown them a map indicating that they will be in the range of Iran's missiles very shortly, if not already. The UN is once again proving it's utter uselessness. The UN will soon go the way of the League of Nations.

Exactly why we should drop this right into their laps. ترحيب إلى باريس ، [إيمم]

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Exactly why we should drop this right into their laps. ترحيب إلى باريس ، [إيمم]

Look here chaps. IF Iran were to guide a few nukes towards Europe, it would be totally annihilated by the retaliatory strikes. The question is more to do with who are Europe's allies? If China, Russia, India (and the U.S.) decided that Europe was a pawn to be sacrificed then we'd be in deep shit, but ya know something, the way things are going, the U.S. could well be the pawn to be sacrificed? You currently piss soooo many people off and your efforts at diplomacy is a joke. It's obvious that there is already a large body of people who see the U.S. as an aggressor and out of step with the rest of the world. It wouldn't take much to swing opinion to become more hard-line. Just wait until the oil starts to run out and you can't buy your share of it, for love nor money. With this is mind, Bush has been ahead of the game in the invasion of Iraq....so which country's next? Will the rest of the world just sit back forever and a day and let it happen? My guess would be no. New alliances will be forged and the economic strength of India and China will be the biggest (despite their past altercations), so whoever's onside with them, will emerge in a better position. But hey, you U.S. conservatives HATE the commie chinese, don't you? What a dilemma.

[RetroRuss]

...and now back to the original question. I think one should point out that Iranians are not Arabs, but Persian. Anyway Iran is a country which generally has a liberal Muslim attitude, but is governed my radical Mullahs. Think Hamas. I do not believe for one moment that Iran would (given the chance) develop nuclear power, just for 'peaceful purposes' and why a country rich in natural resources needs nuclear power is beyond me. It is the stated aim of the President of Iran to 'destroy Israel' - if the US, Nato or the UN Security Council approved air strikes the result would be Iran would 'turn-off' the flow of its oil reserves causing global recession. The easiest way round this is by getting Israel to bomb the facilities - they could say it is in 'self defence' - however I imagine the Israelis leveraging a deal from the US, Russia and China to do this. Israel this week launched a new spy satellite with the stated aim of watching Iran's nuclear facilities.....watch this space!

[dfc99bb]

I think it will ultimately come down to the US (or Israel) taking out Iran's nuke-developing facilities. Iran does not have a rational government at the moment. I believe them when they say they will wipe out Israel and attack U.S. interests. You can't negotiate with a goverment comprised of liars.

This entire situation is a repeat of the way Europe dealt with Adolf Hitler. No one but Chrurchill believed Hitler's statements. Most thought that Hitler was saying rabid things solely for German domestic consumption. Europe was proven wrong on Sept. 1, 1939. This time much more is at stake.

[Videoskooter]

Well today German and Israëlian Intelligence brought out the news that Iran's BM25 rockets have a range of 2500 Kilometer. Sufficient enough to hit Athens/Greece.

They are ready for use and are purchased in North-Korea. They will be improved and can carry nuclear heads!





I pity the fool who trusts those guys :evil:

[eddie]

Quinny hits the nail on the head with his last post.
Being a traditional conservative, I have a real problem with U.S. companies selling out America for oil and cheap labor.
This young U.S. generation (under 35) is about ready to get a wake-up call. We may soon have wars on about 6 fronts with Chavez, Iran, Iraq, Afganistan, China, and North Korea and nobody trained to fight. Bush is complaining about the price of oil hurting the US econonomy but what about the oil execs of the US and Haliburton.
We need to have a self-sufficient economy where we produce and manufacture everything here and not be dependant on other countries. We need to instill religious values into our communities much like the Iranians and then we can't be leveraged and the middle class will not be sold out.
If a World War does happen or Iran gets nuked, the only citizens supporting a coup may be those who question and want to regain the legitamacy of leadership domestically. Do you hear how conservatives like Lou Dobbs, Bill O'reilly, and Pat Buchanan go after Bush? The bases of both wings are irriate. Working class Blacks and labor are being undersold with corporate sponsored immigration and social conservatives have their values placed low in priority and any government reform has been stonewalled.

In summation, do not attack Iran. The hawks have no clue whatsoever of what they are getting into. I don't believe Iran has overstepped its boundaries in any way and Islamic fundamentalists like US traditional conservatives should be left out of this mess.

[remicks]

Originally Posted by dfc99bb

You can't negotiate with a goverment comprised of liars.

.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Com King]

:D :D :o :o :D :D :D

[remicks]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[dfc99bb]

"The Iranian nation won't give a damn about such useless resolutions," Ahmadinejad told thousands of people Friday in Khorramdareh in northwestern Iran before the IAEA report was issued.

So much for the EU and UN culture of endless negotiation. Even the Germans now believe that Iran has missiles that can reach Europe. Well, what now my EuroPussy friends???

Nuclear Agency Says Iran Defying U.N.
By GEORGE JAHN (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
April 28, 2006

VIENNA, Austria - The International Atomic Energy Agency said Friday that Iran has defied a U.N. Security Council call for a freeze on enriching uranium and its lack of cooperation with nuclear inspectors was a "matter of concern."

President Bush said "the world is united and concerned" about what he called Iran's "desire to have not only a nuclear weapon but the capacity to make a nuclear weapon or the knowledge to make a nuclear weapon."

The eight-page report, obtained by The Associated Press, said that after more than three years of an IAEA investigation of Iran's nuclear program, "the existing gaps in knowledge continue to be a matter of concern."

"Any progress in that regard requires full transparency and active cooperation by Iran," said the report, written by IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei.

The finding set the stage for a showdown in the U.N. Security Council, which is expected to meet next week and start a process that could result in punitive measures against the Islamic republic.

But Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said no Security Council resolution could make Iran give up its nuclear program.

"The Iranian nation won't give a damn about such useless resolutions," Ahmadinejad told thousands of people Friday in Khorramdareh in northwestern Iran before the IAEA report was issued.

"Today, they want to force us to give up our way through threats and sanctions but those who resort to language of coercion should know that nuclear energy is a national demand and by the grace of God, today Iran is a nuclear country," state-run television quoted him as saying.

Bush said he was not discouraged by Iran's vow to continue despite global pressure, and while he has refused to rule out the possibility of military action against Iran, he emphasized the pursuit of diplomatic efforts.

"I think the diplomatic options are just beginning," he said in Washington.

At the United Nations, Western nations promised to act urgently to introduce a new Security Council resolution next week to demand that Iran abandon uranium enrichment.

John Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said "the United States is ready to take action in the Security Council to move to a resolution. ... We hope that we can get council action just as soon as possible."

Bolton said the resolution should be under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter "making mandatory for Iran the existing requirements of the IAEA resolutions, and particularly the resolution the board passed in February." Chapter 7 resolutions can be enforced by sanctions, or militarily.

He said the IAEA report shows that Iran "has accelerated its efforts to acquire nuclear weapons although, of course, the report doesn't make any conclusions in that regard."

"I think the evidence of Iran's efforts to acquire nuclear weapons, its extensive program to achieve a ballistic missile program of longer and longer range and greater accuracy constitutes a classic threat to international peace and security, especially when combined with Iran's long status as the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism," Bolton said.

The report said Iran's claim to have enriched small amounts to a level of 3.6 percent - fuel-grade uranium as opposed to weapons-grade enriched to levels above 90 percent - appeared to be true, according to initial IAEA analysis of samples.

Uranium conversion - an activity linked to enrichment - "is still ongoing," said the report, adding that more than 120 tons have been converted over the past eight months. Were it used for weapons, that amount would be enough for more than 15 crude nuclear bombs, according to experts.

In one of the few recent developments in the IAEA's inquiry, the report concluded that Iran used undeclared plutonium in conducting small-scale separation experiments.

"The agency cannot exclude the possibility ... that the plutonium analyzed by the agency was derived from source(s) other than declared by Iran," the report said. Plutonium separation is one of the suspect "dual use" activities that could be used for a weapons program.

But the agency was stonewalled by Iran's refusal to give more information on other key issues - details of its centrifuge programs that are used to enrich uranium, information on drawings that show how to form fissile uranium into warheads, and apparent links between Iran's military establishment and what it says is a civilian nuclear program.

The report formally served notice that Tehran had shrugged off a 30-day deadline to meet council demands. As such, it opened the way for further council steps, including the potential threat of sanctions and military action if Iran continues to defy the international community.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice won broad support from NATO allies for a tough diplomatic line on Iran.

However, NATO foreign ministers meeting in Sofia, Bulgaria, did not offer any specific threat of sanctions against Iran, in part to avoid a rift with Russia and China. While Russia and China have been reluctant to endorse sanctions, the council's three other veto-wielding members say a strong response is in order.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Kislyak said it was premature to comment on the IAEA report.

"We will study this report very carefully with the aim of agreeing a position and possible future steps to resolve the issues surrounding the Iranian nuclear problem," the Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.

French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said the IAEA's report was "a worrying situation for the entire international community," but he added that the message to Iran was "the door to negotiation is not closed."

Iran's U.N. ambassador, Javad Zarif, said Thursday that Tehran will refuse to comply with the Security Council even if its request is turned into a demand through a resolution because its activities are legal and peaceful. Enrichment can be used to generate fuel or make the fissile core of nuclear weapons.

"If the Security Council decides to take decisions that are not within its competence, then Iran does not feel obliged to obey," he said in New York.

As late as Thursday, Russian President Vladimir Putin questioned the primacy of the council, insisting the IAEA should continue to play a central role in the dispute. "It mustn't shrug this role from its shoulders and pass it on to the U.N. Security Council," Putin said.

But a top French diplomat laid out a starkly contrasting position that also reflects U.S. and British views: The Security Council should not only have the main say in dealing with Iran but also should start considering how to increase the pressure. But, the diplomat said, a U.N. resolution enforceable by military action would not automatically mean resorting to such action.

The Security Council statement a month ago gave Iran until Friday to suspend all activities linked to enrichment because it can be used to make the highly enriched uranium used in the core of nuclear warheads.

Instead of complying, Iran - which says it seeks the technology only to generate electric power - has upped the ante in recent weeks, announcing it had for the first time successfully enriched uranium and was doing research on advanced centrifuges that would let it produce more of the material in less time.

---

Copyright 2005 Associated Press.

[originalbigm]

Originally Posted by eddie

Quinny hits the nail on the head with his last post.
Being a traditional conservative, I have a real problem with U.S. companies selling out America for oil and cheap labor.
This young U.S. generation (under 35) is about ready to get a wake-up call. We may soon have wars on about 6 fronts with Chavez, Iran, Iraq, Afganistan, China, and North Korea and nobody trained to fight. Bush is complaining about the price of oil hurting the US econonomy but what about the oil execs of the US and Haliburton.
We need to have a self-sufficient economy where we produce and manufacture everything here and not be dependant on other countries. We need to instill religious values into our communities much like the Iranians and then we can't be leveraged and the middle class will not be sold out.
If a World War does happen or Iran gets nuked, the only citizens supporting a coup may be those who question and want to regain the legitamacy of leadership domestically. Do you hear how conservatives like Lou Dobbs, Bill O'reilly, and Pat Buchanan go after Bush? The bases of both wings are irriate. Working class Blacks and labor are being undersold with corporate sponsored immigration and social conservatives have their values placed low in priority and any government reform has been stonewalled.

In summation, do not attack Iran. The hawks have no clue whatsoever of what they are getting into. I don't believe Iran has overstepped its boundaries in any way and Islamic fundamentalists like US traditional conservatives should be left out of this mess.

Some facts on how bad the economic deficit has become in the US.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/reserves.htm