New Dimitri/Joey BBE Release - "The Kings Of Disco"

[redgreg]

Originally Posted by markydefad

I agree with Jimmy M.-- Dimitri's stuff leaves me a little cold. Is it the "modern sensibility" that makes warm old records sound chilly when he's playing em? :o :o :o :o

I'm always sorta disappointed. I don't quite know why. :oops:

Hey, at least he pays some respect to the past--but he's overrated, IMHO.

Heard him play at the Kings Of Disco launch party and i have to agree that he is overated, I think he was playing mainly from CD's as he always seemed to have a CD wallet in his hands, He did'nt work with the crowd at all and there was no variation in tempo, very dull and really boring.

[JussiK]

Being somewhat biased against cds I haven't checked out this Dimitri's latest yet but is that Cappuccino thing the one realesed originally in Italy in 1981, with a sleeve depicting a waitress in a skimpy outfit offering a cup of coffee?

[DJ Jimmy M]

Well I guess this is all a matter of oppinion. I will say i'll have to go with K-Bee's judgement and report on seein the guy cause I know he knows what he's talkin bout (know him very well..maybe too well sometimes lol). But the thing I do agree with is...Dimitri is wayyyyy to overrated and still dont even come close to the true legends But his mixed CDs hes done with disco and disco/house combos are quite good compilations for true disco on CD. I own all three of em (both playboy ones, salsoul, and disco forever mini boxed set) excpet this one.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by JussiK

Being somewhat biased against cds I haven't checked out this Dimitri's latest yet but is that Cappuccino thing the one realesed originally in Italy in 1981, with a sleeve depicting a waitress in a skimpy outfit offering a cup of coffee?

Yeppers

[Pete B]

I think it is slightly unfair to slate Dimitri and Joey for mixing edits which don't fluctuate in tempo as much. Why is this not "proper disco mixing"? I doubt that every track they play is an edit but if the technology to produce even tempos were around in the 70's I'm sure all the best DJ's would have used it. Anyway, much of the Cerrone style euro disco was fairly rigid and easy to mix. If they are making their own edits so the songs work better within their sets, surely that is a good thing?

Also, mixing standards have changed so much in the last 30 years. If many of these trendy Johnny come latelys (who have never even heard Harvey DJ, let alone any of their American idols from the 70's) were presented with a comtempory DJ mixing like Walter or Larry they would find it unacceptable and say the mixing was all over the place, because from the tapes I've heard it was very hit and miss, which was fine back then.

I don't like every track on this CD but at least there are many new "old" songs, not just he same "Love is the Message" style classics trotted out yet again.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Pete B

because from the tapes I've heard it was very hit and miss, which was fine back then.

This is not true, this is what Disco history revisionists (internet articles/books written from a very narrow point of view) and parties with invested financial interest (labels/groups selling this old recordings and pushing articles manufacturing DJ 'Legends') want you to believe, in the old days (70's) 'train wreck' mixes were not acceptable any where by anyone, only today's merchandisers have been able to sell to unsuspecting youngsters this false notion and explain away bad mixing with big fancy words and tales of grandeur.

Check out postings in the Club section here under 'Limelight' (Florida) about DJ Bobbie Lombardy, a club DJ pioneer that inspired many local DJ in the mid 70’s with his impeccable mixings technique and flawless long overlapping mixes back when everyone was still mainly using the ‘Chop’ technique, I certainly never heard of him mentioned anywhere, I suspect the main reason is that probably his recordings never survived, and therefore no financial interest in boosting or creating an image to sell books and/or CDs.

Don't believe everything you read about the Disco era, special interests' bias are liberally sprinkled among half truths designed to enhance their financial and/or political agendas.

[Pete B]

I'm not saying that there weren't exceptions but the overall standard was lower, much lower.

I have heard tapes of Levan, Knuckles and there was a Walter Gibbons mixed LP on Salsoul last year.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Think ya missed the point here....point had nothing to do with making special edits (which in the 70s many did via tape and razor). The point on hand was talking about spinning live, not doing remixes & re-edits which were very well being done in the 70s as well (EX - every 12'' version). The whole point of the matter was, how today's so called DJ's basicly use these special gadgets, PC software, etc that does the mixing for you, rather than doing it all on spur of the moment skill with 2 vinyl records, a mixer and 2 turntables and making it work in a very unique and natural way...that was the point.

[Pete B]

Originally Posted by DJ Jimmy M

Think ya missed the point here....point had nothing to do with making special edits (which in the 70s many did via tape and razor). The point on hand was talking about spinning live, not doing remixes & re-edits which were very well being done in the 70s as well (EX - every 12'' version). The whole point of the matter was, how today's so called DJ's basicly use these special gadgets, PC software, etc that does the mixing for you, rather than doing it all on spur of the moment skill with 2 vinyl records, a mixer and 2 turntables and making it work in a very unique and natural way...that was the point.

I think you are missing my point, which is that both then and now the DJ is using the cutting edge technology of the day to enable him to make his blending and overall performance sound as good as possible. Then it was vary speed turntables, reel to reel tape edits, 12" singles - even decent mixers were quite a new tool. Today it is special effects boxes, vary speed CD decks, computer made edits etc. However, none of these new gadgets tell you where to bring the record in, how long to leave it in, which record to play next, which songs to have in your box or cd wallet. So it DOES NOT "do it for you". IMO that's a very silly thing to say!

Yes, there were remixes being made back then but there were a lot less of them and you had to be commissioned by the label to do one. Now, with accapella versions appearing on many 12"'s it is far easier for the DJ to produce his own version of a song. Also, it is far more straight forward doing your edits in the pc, then burning the result to a CD. Back in the 70's/80's you had to use a half inch tape machine (which itself was an expensive piece of kit, unavailable to most), then had to tranfer your edit onto a pricey acetate in order to play it out.

Your view comes over like "In my day the DJ had to use proper steam driven decks and if you didn't put in the correct amount of coal in at just the right moment the tempo would vary and he'd mess up the mix. Now with electric powered decks it's too easy" Times change my friend!

[DJ Jimmy M]

I never mentioned anything about doing remixes, edits etc on the PC being wrong or fake (I actualy do that now)...so would help if you'd actualy read what I was saying. What I was refering to when I said, it just dont do it for me... Im talkin bout LIVE SPINNING, NOT REMIXING/EDITS! Now about the live djing.. The CD mixers, etc do the mixing for you. Sets everything through picking up the BPM's and matching them and you do nothing other than just cue up where ya wanna drop it and just let it go and theres no working it in yourself. Ive actualy messed with these outta being curious and damn, yes they are easy as hell and take no work other than just settin up where you wanna drop and technology is great...also maybe someday singers wont have to sing anymore and just talk and technology will make em sing in tune and anyone could be a singer (we sure as hell could use that technology today with the so called new talents thats for sure LOL). But anyhow back to the subject.. for me, live mixing is an art and I prefer to put hard work and effort into my art rather than cheat the systyem....your entitled to your oppinion as I am mine..and I know some agree with you and some agree with me..no point in arguing something thats a losing battle on both our ends honestly..you say tomato, i say tomoto :lol:

[Pete B]

Modern CD players have bpm counters but they don't mix the records for you though. Even if you have 2 records both pitched to 125, it doesn't mean they are totally in time enough to lock in together, you still need an ear to tell that one is a bit slower/faster than the other. Anyway, IMO matching tempos is only a small part of the skill of DJing

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by Pete B

Modern CD players have bpm counters but they don't mix the records for you though. Even if you have 2 records both pitched to 125, it doesn't mean they are totally in time enough to lock in together, you still need an ear to tell that one is a bit slower/faster than the other. Anyway, IMO matching tempos is only a small part of the skill of DJing

Hmm, there are plenty of double CD players that'll keep two CDs in sync and effectively do the mixing for you. Only trouble is, that the BPM engine still doesn't pick up on anything other than straight thumping heavy 4/4 beats.

Jimmy: If we'd had this technology BITD, I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of DJs would have used it. Anything for an easier life, eh? Do you have any idea what it's like doing anything from 6 - 12 hours mixing per night, maybe 6 or 7 days a week? As someone who did it, I can tell you that it was mentally exhausting. The concentration required was enormous. To remain purist just for the sake of it seems rather elitist and snobbish to me, as if you're trying to prove to yourself how good you are by NOT embracing the technology that's available. We all have these comfort zones and it is true to say that in this case it could make a bad DJ look as good as the best, but we all know that there's a lot more involved than just mixing well. Now, computers with the ability to put music into very specific genres, BPM order and mix perfectly are a different kettle of fish. The human interface (DJ) could be redundant in a very short time from now. Therefore, it has to be said that the concept of beat mixing was possibly one of the dumbest moves in history. Discuss that if you will.

BTW: I would personally say that the mixing wasn't that hot BITD, mainly because the variation in tempos of records and poor editing made for a mixing minefield. The things that used to make records go out of sync more than anything else were drum fills and the like. Very few drummers can do fills and rolls without slowing down or speeding up very, very slightly. As we all know, the difference between 120 BPM and 119 bpm is only 4.2 milliseconds. That's diddly squat and 1 BPM is more than enough to make 2 records appear hopelessly out of sync! So, you'd better mix that mutha at the right point and not attempt to overdo it.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Do you have any idea what it's like doing anything from 6 - 12 hours mixing per night, maybe 6 or 7 days a week

Very much so, private parties sometimes went on for 12 hours plus, and for a while when I was doing this I sometimes had jobs that went 7 days a week with no break at all. When I worked the one club I did..that was usualy only an 8 hour shift, and yes..very very tireing LOL.

Yes the BPMS on alot of the good classic stuff is a pain in the ass. Thats for damn sure. But, even with modern stuff, you can still put more into it working with the vinyl and do more creative things and sound. This is why all the new dance stuff (at least in the US) is on vinyl. Maybe not avalible at your local music store, but for DJ's.


But im not trying to prove anything about myself...was simply stating like ya said..about how this new technology can make anyone be able to spin and also that the "kids" so to speak of today got no clue of all the hard work and mental draining of the job and the art. So you basicly hit my point right on the money in a way

Me personaly, dont wanna "change with the times"..cause im not about that. Im basicly my own person and dont follow the "masses"...if that were the case id be listening to DMX or Britney right now :lol:

But the new technology of doing remixes with software..I did jump on that banwagon once it was shown to me on how to use it cause I liked it, and it's not something a baby could do. Was something ya had to learn...and im still learning

[mixtape]

finally picked up Kings of Disco today. I was pleased overall with the cd. Now its true, the edits do bother me however I never heard a good amount of songs on this one so it did expand my library on disco music. Some of the songs were great and some of the songs I could live without naturally. However, I still say its a good buy considering that so many good disco cd's out there are already out of print and hard to find. When I find this in the disco section, it seemed out of place with the "pure disco" compilation.

[DJ Jimmy M]

I as well have checked out a copy of this and I will say I do like Dim's remix of the Goody "It Looks Like Love" track, it was done in pure 70s 12'' style mix rather than a boaring re-edit or updated house remix. Nice collection of obscure stuff here for the most part however..woulda been nice if they coulda just made it a compilation with the original 12'' versions (like Dim's Disco Forever boxed set) rather than re-edits but..we must take what we can get on CD for the real stuff...and "Pure Disco" ROFLMGDAO!! That dont even belong in the disco comp catogory if ya ask me so yes I see your point in finding it strange to see this CD in the same section, but hey..what do the basic public know right? :lol: