WOULD YOU QUEUE?

[QUINNY]

The sight of hundreds, if not thousands, of voters stood in line after the polling staions had officially closed, waiting to cast their vote, was a shock to my system. One might expect to see such scenes in a new democracy, or an extra large democracy with a poor infrastructure, but in the U.S.A.? It really did make me think that there must be something fundamentally wrong with the U.S. voting system, especially when absentee votes etc might not be counted for 10 more days, should the result in Ohio become really ugly. What gives?? This is surely a sham and a national disgrace! Didn't the 2000 election fiasco mean anything to anyone in power?

I realise that this TV image was the headline grabbing one, but even so, I couldn't believe that the most powerful country on earth would expect some of its voters to be subjected to such a thing. That it would have such a voting infrastructure that allowed it and that the people actually stuck it out. A very powerful image indeed.


Apart from the obvious cynicism of the government towards its citizens, through such poor administration of the voting process, it also demonstrated the power of democracy in action.

I don't think I would have stood around for up to 3 or 4 hours though, to vote for even more oppression.

In a two way fight, isn't it time that the electoral college system was dropped for a straight popular vote. That would be so much easier and fairer.

[Videoskooter]

I read this topic's title as "Would you Q?" and yes sometimes I certainly wanna Q everybody.

But answering da real question: here in Belgium, voting is a duty. You must vote in an election here. Not turning up means an invitation to the courthouse and a possible conviction (up to € 500,00) or jail-sentence. So we simply have to queue up. But since we almost all vote digitally we usually don't have to wait that long at the poll-station.

Would I queue up in the USA? ABSOLUTELY, I would register there and vote! Not voting is an attack on democracy and an insult to people who have lost their lives for giving us our right to vote.

Don't mess with democracy! Be a responsable citizen!

And Q, yes history is repeating itself, only now in Ohio, but the fact is that George Bush is getting a lot of votes (more than Kerry) and is winning in a lot of States so that means that a whole lot of Americans are approving his politics.

[QUINNY]

Depends on whether or not you believe that some hackneyed politicians have any right whatsoever to rule your life. I don't. Therefore, I could never live in a country where voting was compulsory.
Yes, unfortunately millions of people did die, in the name of democracy and freedom. All I say is "what democracy and what freedom"?

Why should I vote for even more laws, less freedom, a democracy that doesn't deliver and more governmental tyranny?
Do you know something? When I have voted it's always been for a party that hasn't gained power. Is that full democratic franchisement, when the people I (and supposedly millions of others) have supported get absolutely no say in how things are run? Does that give me and millions of others any sort of a political voice? Hell no.

[Videoskooter]

Q,

What would you do in this case:

Since last election the "Vlaams Blok" is the biggest party in Belgium. They are extreme-right, directly linked to Nazi's (that's a proven fact-they have contacts with all neonazigroups, even in the States and they are runned by former nazi-collaborators). They are not in power here because the other parties are blocking them from power by making coalitions and so are creating a majority without them.

A recent poll last week proves that they are still growing and that there wil be a day soon that they can't be neglected anymore. (Like in Austria).

Now they are allready convicted by the courts for racism (especially against muslims) but the appeal is still pending. However if they are convicted again they simply gonna form a new party and they will continue.

When you read their points of view, it's very clear that once they are in power, they will destroy democracy. So they are using their democratic rights to destroy it afterwards.

What should we do with them? Accept them in a coalition? Neglect them?

For people who are following the American series "The Westwing": they are mentioned in one of the episodes and they have tried to ban that episode on Belgian television.

[QUINNY]

This is surely nothing new? The low countries have a history of right wing extremism to some extent. I'm thinking South Africa for instance. As some Belgians are Flemish I guess the ties go a lot deeper than mere language.

They may be the largest party (which would lead one to believe that they have a large popular vote and have a 'majority' of Belgians who support them), but if you have many parties and (i guess) proportional representation there's no way they'll ever gain power. However that does leave one hell of a lot of Belgians who feel disenfranchised and therefore latent trouble on the horizon.

Maybe you just have to accept that Belgium is potentially an ultra conservative, neo nazi country at heart? Tough I know, but there's not a lot that you as an individual can do, is there, except vote with your feet and move to another country?

In a democracy, everyone has a right to a point of view, no matter how disgusting you or others may find it.

[euroflash]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

In a democracy, everyone has a right to a point of view, no matter how disgusting you or others may find it.

Those are fine words, indeed, and that quote hit the vibe with me at the moment when I am watching Sen. J. F. Kerry loosing the race for presidency. :( A lost chance for change...

The people who stood in long lines waiting to cast their votes have procrastinated to the very last moment. They could have mailed their ballots 3 weeks ago and avoided wasting so much time.

[Mixmachine]

BUSH WINS with both the majority of popular and electoral votes (more than anyone since Bush Sr), Republicans expand control of the Senate and House,they elect more State Governors, and Osama it's shiting in his pants! Take that to the Bank!

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

and Osama it's shitting in his pants!

No, not at all.

One thing which got overlooked during the run-up to the election was that Al-Jazeera released the full, unedited transcript of Osama's latest tape. In it, he explained that his tactics were not to defeat the US with military might, but to bankrupt America. This is exactly how he helped defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda spent about $500,000 on the Sept 11 attacks, but it cost the US BILLIONS. The war in Iraq (where Al Qaeda previously had no presense -- yes, Bush lied about that) has cost billions more. He has openly stated that he plans on doing relatively inexpensive attacks around the world, luring the American military to spend millions pursuing a handful of men.

Bush has eagerly fallen into this trap. Osama is COUNTING on Bush launching more and more military action -- and now he's even said so! It will already take a generation to pay the debts incurred from the "war on terror". And Osama still remains at large. How many more invasions can America afford?

[Videoskooter]

Hey Mix my Republican friend :D

First, George Bush has won with a big majority and this victory can not be contested. He is the elected president.

But again you are making one mistake and that is your remark on Bin Laden. First he is not scared because a fundamentalist fool like him can not be scared, that's why that scum is so dangerous.

I'm afraid that Graham has a point there about the expenses for this war on terror. He's absolutely right and the major goal for president Bush is to go full steam ahead now and crush those Al-Quaeda bastards and their low-life friends before the costs are getting to high financially.

Would I have voted for Bush? Mmmh, I have problems with his religious agenda. Would I have vote for Kerry? NO!!

That man was not convincing to me, sorry. And you know, I'm not a socialist, not a commie, not a liberal, I was a soldier and I still am in fact (reserve-unit/regimental police) so Mix, don't hurt my feelings this time when you reply :D

[paul]

Originally Posted by Videoskooter

Would I have voted for Bush? Mmmh, I have problems with his religious agenda. Would I have vote for Kerry? NO!!

That man was not convincing to me, sorry. And you know, I'm not a socialist, not a commie, not a liberal, I was a soldier and I still am in fact (reserve-unit/regimental police) so Mix, don't hurt my feelings this time when you reply :D

Well, I beleive you reflect the view of many Americans. They weren't sold on Kerry. Bush should have been the easiest opponent to defeat. Kerry couldn't do it which didn't surprise me.

[judydoggie]

It's over. Thank God that Senator Kerry had the decency to be a gentleman rather than giving any thought to antics similar to Vice President Gore's four years ago.

I know that many in this group are extremely disappointed with the outcome of the election. I empathize with those who are, in particular, frustrated by the President's tendency to inject religion and morals into his agendas. There is, after all, a concept in this country called "separation of church and state." I was even more surprised and disappointed at the backlash against gay unions in, I believe, eleven states. The pendulum of public opinion has swung, now, about as far right as it can. And if one examines history, we can rest assured that it will now begin to swing in the other direction. (For qualification purposes, I am a straight, married man -- and I know what you're thinking -- with a faggy "nickname" online.)

For those of us who supported the President, this is a time to think about how we will continue to focus on the Republican ideal; compact government and freedom of regulatory interference. We must play the cards that we've been dealt. The President may not be appealing, charismatic, a great orator, or even persuasive. But he has spent four years in that office, and will apply his experience, I am sure, to do even better, greater things for American in the next four.

I encourage those who are frustrated with the outcome of the election to channel your frustration and anger into action! Demonstrate (peacefully) to the President how you feel. Should he not listen, surely your representatives in Congress and the Senate will. The President's win should not be construed as a loss by anyone. Senator Kerry told Americans it's time for a change. Guess what? The next four years will, I'm sure, be marked by some very significant changes for Americans. Surely a sensible person cannot expect the President to repeat his mistakes.

Returning to my disagreements with the President; if enough is done to demonstrate to the men, and perhaps women, who would run for the office after the President's turn is up, that the President's right-wing, moralistic, fundamentalist-based decisions were wrong and invasive to the very freedoms that the Republican party was founded upon, the next President, regardless of affiliation, will pay attention. In the meantime, nothing will change the outcome of yesterday's election. We have now to adapt and change ourselves; and in changing grow -- sometimes painful, this growth -- but grow nonetheless.

- Paul a.k.a. Judydoggie

[Funky Dude]

Seeing Americans have the freedom of choice of voting or not, I would not vote at all and wouldn't waste my time in the queues. And if I were forced to vote, George Bush would have buckleys chance of getting my vote.

Unfortunately over in Australia, just like in Belgium, we are forced to vote or pay a fine. Traditionally I vote for Labour but seeing Mark Lathan isn't a great leader I voted Greens cos they care for the environment, and who won, well that's easy, little Johnny fuckin' Howard :evil: :evil: :evil: !!!!! I reckon the election was rigged cos I heard that Howard has been known to go to mental institutions and old peoples nursing homes and talk them into voting for him. And small businesses are forced to vote Howard because Mark Lathan's plans for the businesses are fucked, my boss was forced to vote Howard even though he thinks Howard is a bloody wanker!!! I wish we had a Labour leader like Gough Whitlam or maybe Bob Hawke, Labour would of won hands down.

And I KNEW George bloody Bush would win cos it's so OBVIOUS, I reckon the majority of the ones that voted are the ones who want George Bush to win cos they believe in old ideas :evil: !!!!!

And Johnny Howard once again kisses Bush's arse by congratulating him, and Latham seems to join in. Howard must have the brownest lips in politics, he's kissed Bush's arse since Bush became President!!!

I reckon if voting was compulsary in USA George Bush would lose big time because he is a bloody liar and a war monger and I'm sure the majority of Americans don't like him!!! And when Bush declares war, Howard gets the Australian army involved!!!

That's my opinion, I might be crossing the line with my comments but that's how I honestly feel, I never liked George W Bush, nor do I like Johnny Howard, they are both wankers :evil: !!!!

__________________________________________________ ___
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!! OI OI OI!!!

[QUINNY]

America is such a divided nation and that won't make the next 4 years easy for Bush or his fellow Americans. It's a shame that politics and especially presidential elections can't be fought on something better than shabby party political lines. I personally can't understand the need for people to associate with these antiquated ideals.
They are so out of tune with the present day politic, proved beyond any doubt to be corrupt, self serving and immoral and don't go anywhere near to meeting the average man's everyday political needs, that I despair. When are we, the populace, going to get rid of 'em?

Revolution is in the air throughout the western world!! Times are a changin'.

[gvtaylor]

Never trust a man who's eye's are too close together!!! :o


The first three years ... can the English language survive another term?




"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- George W. Bush


"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- George W. Bush


"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is, 'to be prepared'."
- George W. Bush



"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
-George W. Bush


"The future will be better tomorrow."
George W. Bush



"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- George W. Bush



"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- George W. Bush

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
George W. Bush



"Public speaking is very easy."
George W. Bush



"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
George W. Bush


"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- George W. Bush



"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- George W. Bush



"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- George W. Bush



"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
-George W. Bush



"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- George W. Bush



And something to be REALLY worried about:



"Remember, 2004 is an election year!!!" George W. Bush

[judydoggie]

Dear Quinny:

Don't you think that the terrorists are keeping the Constabulary busy enough without people taking to the streets?

If you're so dismayed with what's going on in the U.S.:

1) Stay in Britain.
2) Channel your negative energy for positive change, but please, in your own country.

Respectfully,

Paul - a.k.a. judydoggie