Deliverance

[nrgbeat]

Is anybody a big fan of the 1972 film "Deliverance"?



I just watched it and wasn't impressed. I guess I'm not a fan of pig squeeling, banjo plucking and watching Ned Beatty get violated by a hillbilly.

[paul]

Hi nrgbeat. Yea, I like Deliverance, more so because it is such a quirky movie to me. I often wondered how actors Ned Beatty and Jon Voight felt playing those roles, in the sense that it harmed or helped their careers in retrospect.

[Boodikka]

"He sure got a purty mouth, don't he?".....Bill McKinney and Herbert Coward are two of the most frightening film villains ever, largely because you can just imagine what else they must be into. This film is a winner in my book, with its examination of machismo, the violence of rape, and other themes. The "Dueling Banjos" sequence is surreal, touching and almost out of place, almost as if it is from another film.

[jack]

I'm not a fan of pig squeeling, banjo plucking and watching Ned Beatty get violated by a hillbilly.

well i am...love the movie..just saw it again about a month ago..the book is also a great read. once those dueling banjos begin i am hooked, and have to watch the entire movie all over again. and burt reynolds...wow,each time i appreciate his performance more and more.

[Rab]

Deliverance is designed to "deliver" precisely what straight boys want to see! That "fags" are a potentially dangerous bunch, that in the end will get exactly what they deserve! When the handsome, dashing Burt Reynolds shoots that arrow right through, that terrifying character representing, what scares straight men most, it brings delight to all those straight men, with a sigh of relief. Today, as in 1972 when this film was made "men" are still portrayed as the victimizers, the assailants, the perpetrators, etc. So, it brings some relief to finally see the "straight man" as the "victim" and not the victimizer. And what better way to show this victimization than by showing society's main "villain" the male queer into action, doing what all straight men secretly (irrationally) fear. This is probably the only time you will ever see a nelly, queer in the agressive role....when in the end, the straight boy can once again triumph victoriously, and then some. While straight boys may be portrayed negetively more often than women in general, they are also portrayed more often as hero's. Something no Hollywood movie will ever allow the queer male to be seen as. Unfortunately, people don't realize, that in reality rape is very rare within the gay community...and when same sex rape does occur it is usually within the confines of a prison, where the perpetrator is a straight man. Gay boys don't usually ever have to worry about getting sex in jail the way the movie industry wants you to believe ("Shawshenk Redemption", with Tim Robbins). So, while some of you maybe thinking this is "overreacting", Deliverance is precisely what helped motivate many straight boys to commit acts of violence against gay men 30 years ago. There have been over 150 murders of gay men since the Matthew Sheppard case that have not received any news coverage. And I have yet to hear a story about some straight boy that was "stalked" by some guy looking for gay sex....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-02 11:57 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-22 18:40 ]</font>

[Jeff H]

YOU GO, Rab!!



It's nice to read such a well thought-out and thought-provoking post. (And you're taking some of the pressure off other gay loudmouths like me and Marky!)



Oops! I guess now we'll be hearing from that other member who wishes we'd keep our "preferences" to ourselves.

[NickNack]

Hi Rab,



I agree with most of everything you said, especially Hollywood's version of gays as 'villan'. Now, granted, it's been years since I've seen this movie and I've never read the book but, for whatever reason, I never considered these villans to be gay. DISTURBED, truly. But not gay AND disturbed. Have I forgotten a key element somewhere? Was this part of their character makeup? I honestly took the rape as "Hillbilly Country" bullshit. You know, farmboys...in-breeding...out in the middle of nowhere...any hole will do. It was just scarier because these two were psychotic.



Can you or someone tell me were these guys written as gay characters in the book or the movie?

[markydefad]

Nicky,



You totally expressed my thoughts on this subject. I never equated those guys as being gay--just psychotic hillbillys looking to cornhole somethin'. Again like you, I haven't seen the movie in a looong time--but I guess there may have been a more underlying implication of homosexuality threatening straight males, but if it was there, it flew right over my head.

[Rab]

To the person with some education on the matter that point is clear. Perhaps, more so to someone who lives in urban New Jersey or Los Angeles as both of you do. But clearly, the average heterosexual person is not going to take the time to figure that out; especially if they live out in the country-side, in rural America somewhere, or swear they've never even met a gay person, etc. People are going to identify the gender a rapist prefers with his sexual orientation. Is one really that naive to believe one's sexual orientation cannot be "implied"?



Using imagery has been an artform Hollywood has always used. For example Jean-Claude Van Damme discussed in an interview he did for a Boston gay rag about 7 or 8 years ago, a last minute change he made per his request to his movie "Lionheart". This scene was when Jean is approached for a fight in a parking lot. Before the fight, the challenger approaches Jean and states, "You know, you are so pretty, I don't know whether to fight you, or kiss you?" This comment was intended to justify a powerful kick to the challengers groin, humiliating the challenger before he even had a chance. Jean doesn't even break a sweat, giving the challenger a look that clearly stated, "You know.....you should be a little more careful who you make a comment like that to", and walks away laughing, with the crowd laughing at the disgraced challenger as he convulses on the ground in agony. Clearly, the challenger could have been straight, but the implication is clear, and the scene delivers to the audience what the "straight male" majority would prefer to see. In every other fight Jean participates in (in every movie), his defeated opponent always looses with at least some dignity, and of course, without even a subliminal pass being made.



Now, if gay boys had there way, the scene in Deliverence would have had Burt Reynolds squeeling like a pig, instead of Ned Beatty, with the crossbow deleted. In this case I would bet almost every gay boy would probably have his own personal copy of Deliverance, including myself...





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rab on 2002-04-08 12:55 ]</font>

[NickNack]

Point taken. I've used similar arguments when working on a corporate "Diversity" council.

[StuckIn1979]

The movie the "Celluloid Closet" is an excellent documentary discussing Hollywood's negative portrayal of gays in the movie industry. I think Deliverance should have been added to its collection

[paul]

Hey StuckIn1979. Are you referring to the famous squeal like a pig scene. For some reason I never viewed those mountain people as gay so much as I viewed them as well, hillbillies. They would just as soon put it to a person regardless of sex as they would the closest farm animal.

[StuckIn1979]

Originally Posted by paul

For some reason I never viewed those mountain people as gay so much as I viewed them as well, hillbillies. They would just as soon put it to a person regardless of sex as they would the closest farm animal.

Did you read the other responses, particularly the second one from Rab?

[paul]

Originally Posted by StuckIn1979

Did you read the other responses, particularly the second one from Rab?

I can dig where you're coming from now that I've read or perhaps reread the prior posts. I guess my sentiments echo those of Nicky's. As a straight man though, the biggest "gay fear" is the being somebody's bitch in the big house. Anyway, I can appreciate arguments that focus on the subtle imagery and undertones in movies and other media. As an African-American, I used to frequently debate racial imagery and undertones in "The Color Purple."

[JussiK]

Just curious...what did you gay guys think of recent THE TRANSPORTER, then? That Luc Besson-produced film starring Jason Streatham was the most thin-veiled totally gay movie I've ever seen and many critics have agreed. Who kicked who's ass and what were the implications?