Question to RARE Northern soul fans!

[wow27]

Here's a question to all you Northern soul fans/obsessives! :roll:

How RARE is RARE :o

Now let's try and elaborate on this, just how RARE is RARE??? Is it RARE to such an extent that it is RARE or is just so RARE that it simply is RARE?
RARE to what extent i ask myself?
Maybe just so God damn RARE that it simply does'nt exist? but then it becomes RARER than RARE-now that is RARE! :lol:

[BrunoRepublic]

"Rare" is one of the most mis-used terms out there. A lot of the so-called "rare" records aren't really rare at all -- there are many copies around -- just not enough to meet the demand for them.

"sought-after" or "valued" would be much more appropriate terms. There are plenty of records for which there might be less than 10 copies left in existence -- but they're still worthless, because nobody wants them.

Examples: I have three items that would fit the commonly-used definition of "rare" -- i.e., they're worth a lot. The 12" of "Sun... Sun... Sun..." by Jâ-Kki, and copies of Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" and Sex Pistols' "Never Mind The Bollocks" on 8-track.

Yet, there are actually hundreds of copies of all three of these items in existence. All were quite successful in their day and sold by the thousands. They're considered "rare" because there are many more people trying to obtain them than there are copies for sale, and some of these people are willing to pay crazy sums of cash for them.

Meanwhile, I have loads of obscure German electronic LPs, long-forgotten disco 7" records, and boxes of other 8-tracks for which there are probably only a handful left in existence. These would actually be much more "rare", but I doubt you'd ever see them described as such, because their net worth is zero.

[wow27]

Maybe there are various definitions to the word 'Rare' and perhaps your description of rare is true - however, i view 'rare' in the case of music as a song or track that is very hard to get hold of and you would have to scour the deepest corners of the earth to find it (i thought circles dont have corners?), anyhow,even then you would be lucky if you found it!
For example you may have a tune that is released on a test pressing white label only - say, 20 copies only! 15 copies are stored in a warehouse somewhere and the warehouse burns down in a fire! So there are only 5 copies left somewhere and they could be anywhere in the world! now that would be my definition of 'rare'! :roll:
Just thinking about a senario like that is enough to give you a headache! : :x

[BrunoRepublic]

Originally Posted by wow27

For example you may have a tune that is released on a test pressing white label only - say, 20 copies only! 15 copies are stored in a warehouse somewhere and the warehouse burns down in a fire! So there are only 5 copies left somewhere and they could be anywhere in the world! now that would be my definition of 'rare'! :roll:
Just thinking about a senario like that is enough to give you a headache! : :x

One of the most valued records in the world (some Doo-Wop single, can't remember the details) is the result of a similar situation. The master tape and acetate were destroyed in a fire, only three test copies were made, and one of them is broken.

Actually, one particular record that I'd love to hear is like this as well -- early test copies of Vangelis' bizarro 1980 LP "See You Later" had two tracks that were dropped from the final release, never to appear anywhere else.

Then there's Jean-Michel Jarre's "Music For Supermarkets" -- he recorded the album as a protest against commercialism in the music industry, pressed one copy, auctioned it off for charity, and then destroyed the master tapes. But at least he let them play it over the radio first.

[DISCODISK]

GRAHAM, a few examples of rare northern
frank wilson "do i love you [indeed i do]-soul-$24000
andantes"like a nightmare"-v.i.p-$6000
the inspirations"no one else can take your place"-breakthrough$6000
should any of these come up for sale in the u.k they would be sold in seconds.
the frank wilson would probibly sell for double that for two reasons ony two exist,one in lancashire u.k the other in scotland,and it was one of the best motown dancers ever made[even a 79 u.k reissue that sold well would cost $60!]
considering its rarity i actually think thats a bargain!
in the early 70s as i kid i saw a copy of copy of "cigarette ashes"-jimmy conwell-mirwood sell for $120 the mid 70s saw a copy of "seven day lover"-james fountain-peechtree sell for $250 people gasped in horror as that was 2 months wages more for some people, today $500 dosnt buy much at all.
i wheel and deal in northern records and there ARE plenty of people waiting to buy them and the rarest record you have for sale sells first as some of these things nowdays are so rarely seen people think this way "if i dont grab this now ill never get it" also internet auctions are damaging record collecting,theres a frenzy going on pushing up prices more e.g i put a $25 dollar record up [the going price] some guy bid $60 he paid and that was fine, a couple of days later it appeared on a sales list at $25 sure enough i got an e.mail "that record you sold me for $60"....
im still trying to explain to him that i never sold it to him for that price he BID that price! but be sure the next time thats listed on a sales list it will be $60
you are right saying records are being hyped as rare and they arnt an example of this is ace spectrum "dont send nobody else" sells here for about $100 even with the big demand here it should be $30 tops!
dont dismiss your 7" collection as worthless you might be surprised! the northern collectors go for 7" over 12" e.g
"janice" skip mahoney-salsoul 12"=$50 7"=$100
"my babys got e.s.p" four below zero-roulette 12"=$60 7" $100+
and double on p&p :o

[DISCODISK]

i forgot to add a couple of years ago frank wilson was here to do a gig,for a joke a northern soul mag photographed him with one of the copies of the record in his hand for the front cover frank was smiling with a headline "frank wilson turns up in london with a box full of do i love you" kenny burrel the guy who paid the $24000 i believe had a heart attack :lol:

[QUINNY]

DISCODISK:
Very interesting but.................... :lol:

[DISCODISK]

QUINNY you ruined the other topic now are you going to try to do the same here you are so SAD why do you come to this site you obviously know nothing about music and care for it even less,people come here to meet likeminded people,unfortunately they have to meet you along the way WHAT IS IT WITH YOU ? ive said it before and ill say it again you bore me to death.you are so f***** DULL

[QUINNY]

DISCODISK: Really, I find it interesting how obsessive some people get to be and that records can change hands for such huge sums. I found it interesting that they reckon 150,000 Northern Soul type records have been released (although it's a figure I find hard to believe; even over 50 years that would be 3,000 per year average). I do not contribute any further 'cos I realize that you are soooooo knowledgeable.
I was merely letting you know that I'm reading the thread, to offer some kind of acknowledgement, but if you feel this ruins the thread then that's your problem.

[Bernie]

DISCODISK,

I understand your frustration and you made your point, but let's not sink to, "you are so f***** DULL." This goes for everyone else-let's keep our cool.

Quinny,

If you have nothing productive to add to an otherwise informative thread, then please wait to respond until you have something.

[wow27]

It never ceases to amaze me how fickle and fragile human nature really is these day's! I'm not having a go at the guy's above in specific - just using their messages as a prime example of how easily fickle human nature is these days! :roll:
What started out a a fairly harmless, inoffensive thread about 'rareness' has somehow escalated into world war 3 and warranted the intervention of Bernie the site owner to calm it down! how&why????? :evil:
It really never ceases to amaze me! & maybe we should have a new section on this site focusing on why human beings always tend to bring out the worst in each other! unbelievable! :cry:

[BrunoRepublic]

Well, there are some people who get a kick out of antagonizing others. I guess these people feel rather powerless in their own lives, so they try to get this wherever else they can. There are people who despite being quite ignorant or uninformed, will post as if they know the final word on everything, and often don't take it well when someone else contradicts them by posting correct information. Then there are some people who, while not deliberately malicious, are quite thoughtless and post without any tact or sensitivity, and then are astonished and outraged when others do the same to them. And then there are some people who have an agenda and will focus only on that, regardless of how (ir)relevant it is to the forum in question. You will see these things on *any* public forum. And non-moderated ones are infinitely worse -- the flame-wars, spam, and pointless profanity will quickly drown out any real discussion. People suck. It's just the way it is.

Getting back to your original post. I too, agree that something that is "rare" is something that is nearly impossible to find, regardless of whether its worth $1 or $100,000. However, based on what I've seen, this is not the definition that most others use.

[wow27]

Maybe the definition of 'rare' is a combination of both! :o
It is near enough impossible to find and yet even if it is found,it is proberbly priced out of peoples reach! So in both cases it is impossible to get hold of! :x However,i personally would opt for the first definition more so than the second! :)

[zeca azevedo]

Originally Posted by Bernie

Quinny,

If you have nothing productive to add to an otherwise informative thread, then please wait to respond until you have something.

Hey Bernie,

wise words, my friend, wise words :D

zeca azevedo, the only living boy in cucamonga

[QUINNY]

Fast forward 1000 years when all but a few disco 12" records have been destroyed, lost or just given up the ghost; and by the way all known masters were destroyed because anti-disco fundamentalists eradicated all inferior records and artefacts in 2109.
In an auction room somewhere, there is a pristine copy of a disco 12" from 1979, the only copy in existence. It sells for a zillion dollars 'cos of its rarity and superb condition. That record is 'Ring My Bell'.

It could happen.