Question to RARE Northern soul fans!

[zeca azevedo]

Hi,

what's wrong with RING MY BELL? Nothing, at least for me. We discussed this song a few months ago - all haters and lovers had their chance to talk about the song. I like the song, so, for me, there's nothing wrong about RING MY BELL being a highly priced rare record in the future. Different folks...

zeca azevedo, I'm just saying to you people that you can ring MY bell anytime you want :lol:

[jack]

Originally Posted by DISCODISK

don't dismiss your 7" collection as worthless you might be surprised! the northern collectors go for 7" over 12" e.g
"janice" skip mahoney-salsoul 12"=$50 7"=$100
"my babys got e.s.p" four below zero-roulette 12"=$60 7" $100+
and double on p&p :o

dumb(?) question...why do the 7" go for more?? i have noticed that on some items in the states this is also the case...is it a "rarity" thing?

[Greg Wilson]

Discodisk: On a topical note (with it being featured in one of the current KFC adverts), I'm interested to know how there came to be only 2 original copies of the Frank Wilson single in existence. Were these test pressings? What's the story behind this remarkable rarity?

[DISCODISK]

hi GREG no theyre not acetates these were actually pressed up as soul promos with a catalogue number the official story is frank[wilson] and berry decided that it would be better for frank to continue with motown as a writer/producer and not as an artist so the record was shelved with berry ordering all promos to be destroyed.there is another story that berry wanted the song for marvin but marvin wasnt interested.
that was thought to be that until tom dieperro discovered a copy in 1977,he didnt appear to be too interested in the record and our old friend simon soussan aquired the record in 1978 he knew what he had and the havoc it would cause on the northern scene acetates went out to english d.js his bootleg machine was cranked up and it was all done under another artists name eddie foster,later that year simon sold the record to les mccutceron [the guy that formed shakatak] for $500 at this point it was loaned to russ winstanley at the casino and became a monster the record got slightly damaged and got passed on to notts d.j jonathon woodliffe for round 250 pounds who in turn sold it to kev roberts for 350 pounds in swaps [12" singles and funk and soul records] ten years later it was sold to tim brown for 5,000 pounds thats one copy.the other was turned up in 1990 by a guy in toronto canada martin koppel who is known to canadian members here as he has a record shop in toronto kops collectables that is the copy that was sold later in the decade to cllector kenny burrell for 15,000 pounds!but what would they sell for if either was offered for sale again? much much more,what price do you put on an item that only two copies exist and that it is such a fantastic record as well as one of motowns best recordings.there was a version cut too on chris clark and that is just as good that was never pressed though there were acetates knocking round england ten years ago they were supposed to have come from chris clarks cellar :-? 50 of em,i had one i always believed they were bootlegs so i sold mine for a good price.franks version got a legit motown reissue in the u.k in 79 i have a promo they are expensive and hard to find but truthfully its something i would never play at home as i think im almost at the point of hearing it enough in my lifetime[as good as it is]when i d.j here i have to take it with me out of a 3 d.j team i am more known for playing more newer released records i do my very best not to play it but very rarely can i get away with it :roll: BTW both verions were released back to back on the canadian stardust label a couple of years ago

[Greg Wilson]

Thanks for that Discodisk. Crossed paths with some of the people you mentioned back in the early 80's. Could you clarify a couple of things?

1. You say there are two copies out there. Isn't it possible that Frank Wilson, Berry Gordy, or any Motown employees have further copies (I'm sure this question has been asked many times)?

2. Where did Tom Dieperro come across the first copy?

3. How many bootleg copies did Simon Soussan press up of the 'Eddie Foster' record, and did he keep the same title? Presumably this would also command a fair price with collectors. Did any of the DJ's cotton onto the fact that this was the withdrawn Frank Wilson recording?

4. Chris Clark? Sorry, I'm not quite sure who this is, and how he comes into the story. How did he come across this other version?

I find the whole thing fascinating. I'd always thought that this was a big Northern tune from the off, but it obviously didn't start getting played until the late 70's.

It's interesting that you said the song was offered to Marvin Gaye. The Bobby Garrett track that features in the other KFC ad really puts me in mind of 'Ain't That Perculiar'!

Any idea how these KFC ads came about and who advised them on the choice of tracks?

[Greg Wilson]

Thanks for that Discodisk. Crossed paths with some of the people you mentioned back in the early 80's. Could you clarify a couple of things?

1. You say there are two copies out there. Isn't it possible that Frank Wilson, Berry Gordy, or any Motown employees have further copies (I'm sure this question has been asked many times)?

2. Where did Tom Dieperro come across the first copy?

3. How many bootleg copies did Simon Soussan press up of the 'Eddie Foster' record, and did he keep the same title? Presumably this would also command a fair price with collectors. Did any of the DJ's cotton onto the fact that this was the withdrawn Frank Wilson recording?

4. Chris Clark? Sorry, I'm not quite sure who this is, and how he comes into the story. How did he come across this other version?

I find the whole thing fascinating. I'd always thought that this was a big Northern tune from the off, but it obviously didn't start getting played until the late 70's.

It's interesting that you said the song was offered to Marvin Gaye. The Bobby Garrett track that features in the other KFC ad really puts me in mind of 'Ain't That Perculiar'!

Any idea how these KFC ads came about and who advised them on the choice of tracks?

[DISCODISK]

HI greg wilson
in answer to your questions
1 yes its possible other copies exist,but frank dosnt own one he was surprised as hell when he first heard about this ill tell you a funny story that i have mentioned here before he played the togetherness blackpool weekender here a couple of years ago and one of the northern soul magazines nabbed him for a cover shot of the mag,smiling with a copy of said record in hand and the headline read 'frank turns up in london with a box of do i love you found in his attic'!i thought that was really funny as every single reader would have initially thought 'what' :o

2 its possible it came actually out of the motown building as he did research there

3 thousands were pressed up theyve all but dissapeared though you occasionally see them on e.bay they do go for quite a few quid, a few years ago they were considered a bit collectable but people go for the english 79 issue or the next best thing to a soul copy is an english promo

4 chris clark was a lesser known white motown act she joined in 63 and released records till 69 she made some nice records she then went on to motown management,i think when it was decided that the franks record wasnt going to be released her vocals were dubbed on however neither was to be. i dont know what the relationship between these two was but heres where the story gets stranger, theres another dynamite northern soul classic "my sugar baby" by connie clark released on joker records released around the same time[i dont know if the name of the label was like the jokes on you or as a reference to the batman t.v series as this was mentioned a lot in dance music at that time] written by frank wilson the record is similar to do i love you,but connie turns out to be chris!!then it came to light frank was supposed to have recorded it too!that version was released in england 2 years ago but i dont really believe it if you listen to the vocals on the motown record and that its hard to believe i think it was more likely done in the back of a taxi from heathrow to blackpool!! but that bad girl chris moonlighting from motown!

no it wasnt a northern record from the word go motown collectors knew there was a missing number in the soul catalogue but it was totally unknown,though once played it didnt take long before the true identity came out.motown fans still believe theres more surprises to come sure theres been tons of unreleased stuff but something thats actually been pressed is much more exiting,hopefully there will be a couple more.we spoke recently about the beatles and motown acts in the early days in england youll remember[?!!!!]or seen the ready steady go video with kim weston singing "a little more love" that was thought to be an english only release but again a couple of years ago a tamla copy turned up for sale in england so it can happen

also greg youve made a great observation of bobby garrett sounding like marvin gaye thats so true and i hadnt noticed that before its a good job berry didnt notice i mean look what happened to j.j barnes recording carreer when the same was said of him :lol:
i dont know much about the k.t.f ads at present they made some good choices but they should have used a later part of the bobby garret disc to give a bit more sax :lol: :lol:

[efunk_adelic]

Rare sucks

I do have a comment.

Rare could mean a lot of things and here is an example:

Let's say I wanted a copy of Elvis Presley's "Hound Dog/Don't Be Cruel" on 7". It would be virtually impossible to find that record in mint condition in it's original picture sleeve even tho millions of copies existed at one point making it rare to find it in the condition above.

For me I'd rather stick to "hard to find" than rare because even though Jakki's - "Sun, Sun, Sun" is rare, I don't care if I even come across it because I don't care for the song.

Moving right along, I went thru a stage where I just had to have the original copy on a 7" single of a particular song.
For Example: I wanted a copy of the single by the Chantels - He's Gone. I paid $40.00 for it about 10 years ago. Paid $25.00 for a copy of Cadets - Stranded In The Jungle, just to have them in my ever growing collection of music.

Right now, I'm on a hunt for Chi-Lites "Bottom's Up" on 12" and Side Effects - "Make You Mine" on CD. one other title
Debbie Dean - "Don't Let Him Shop Around" on whatever. I've never heard the song, but it's going price is about $75.00 :x

[Greg Wilson]

Discodisk: Thanks for all the info on Frank Wilson.

Intrigued to hear about this cryptic Beatles/Motown connection!?

The Beatles were obviously huge fans of R&B, covering tracks by the Isley Brothers, Barrett Strong, The Miracles, The Marvelletes, Arthur Alexander and The Shirelles on their first 2 albums. Mary Wells was also the first Motown artist to tour the UK (supporting The Beatles for 4 weeks in 64). There are photos of them arriving back in the UK after their first all conquering visit to the States, carrying R&B albums as they come off the plane (they also spent a famous evening phoning a NYC radio station from their hotel room requesting tracks by artists like Marvin Gaye and The Exciters).

I was fortunate enough to get to know one of the most legendary DJ's of all, the late Bob Wooler, who introduced The Beatles on stage at The Cavern 274 times (sorry, I'm going into real trainspotter mode there!). Listening to Bob talking about how he got hold of some of the records he played put me in mind of the subsequent Northern Soul movement. Many US releases were brought into Liverpool via the 'Cunard Yanks', merchant sailors returning from trips to America. Bob told me that he used to search for records in second-hand shops, not only in Liverpool but throughout the region, in an effort to unearth the odd gem (this is how he said he came across a copy of Chan Romero's 'Hippy Hippy Shake', which as a result would become a regular feature of The Beatles' live set at the time, and was later a massive hit for another Merseybeat band, the Swinging Blue Jeans').

The Beatles were the first port of call for many people who would later get into Soul in a big way, and who, after hearing their R&B covers, began to seek out the original recordings and other releases by these artists (and songwriters).

The closest I ever got to The Beatles was when they appeared at the Tower Ballroom, across the River Mersey in my home town of New Brighton, on one famous occasion supporting Little Richard (whose band included Billy Preston) in Oct 62 (the day after their first single 'Love Me Do' made it's entry into the lower region of the UK singles chart). I was then a young child fast asleep in the next street!

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by efunk_adelic

Right now, I'm on a hunt for Chi-Lites "Bottom's Up" on 12" and Side Effects - "Make You Mine" on CD. one other title
Debbie Dean - "Don't Let Him Shop Around" on whatever. I've never heard the song, but it's going price is about $75.00 :x

EFUNK_ADELIC
i cant really tell if you are saying you are trying to buy the debbie dean record,its a really early release motown 1007 stripes design from 1961 thats the reason it sells for that,the record is obviously very dated and is an answer record to the miracles shop around,she made a great record a few years later why am i lovin you but that would sell for 3 times the price of the other disc!

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by Greg Wilson

Discodisk: Thanks for all the info on Frank Wilson.

Intrigued to hear about this cryptic Beatles/Motown connection!?

The Beatles were obviously huge fans of R&B, covering tracks by the Isley Brothers, Barrett Strong, The Miracles, The Marvelletes, Arthur Alexander and The Shirelles on their first 2 albums. Mary Wells was also the first Motown artist to tour the UK (supporting The Beatles for 4 weeks in 64). There are photos of them arriving back in the UK after their first all conquering visit to the States, carrying R&B albums as they come off the plane (they also spent a famous evening phoning a NYC radio station from their hotel room requesting tracks by artists like Marvin Gaye and The Exciters).

I was fortunate enough to get to know one of the most legendary DJ's of all, the late Bob Wooler, who introduced The Beatles on stage at The Cavern 274 times (sorry, I'm going into real trainspotter mode there!). Listening to Bob talking about how he got hold of some of the records he played put me in mind of the subsequent Northern Soul movement. Many US releases were brought into Liverpool via the 'Cunard Yanks', merchant sailors returning from trips to America. Bob told me that he used to search for records in second-hand shops, not only in Liverpool but throughout the region, in an effort to unearth the odd gem (this is how he said he came across a copy of Chan Romero's 'Hippy Hippy Shake', which as a result would become a regular feature of The Beatles' live set at the time, and was later a massive hit for another Merseybeat band, the Swinging Blue Jeans').

The Beatles were the first port of call for many people who would later get into Soul in a big way, and who, after hearing their R&B covers, began to seek out the original recordings and other releases by these artists (and songwriters).

The closest I ever got to The Beatles was when they appeared at the Tower Ballroom, across the River Mersey in my home town of New Brighton, on one famous occasion supporting Little Richard (whose band included Billy Preston) in Oct 62 (the day after their first single 'Love Me Do' made it's entry into the lower region of the UK singles chart). I was then a young child fast asleep in the next street!

about the beatles/motown connection im a bit lost now as i made an earlier reply to you that has somehow got lost in here it should have been the first thing on page 3 it was there once as i saw it but its vanished,anyhow i dont think i was trying to make a connection i was just talking about the beatles and motown acts appearances on ready steady go
yes the beatles were huge r&b fans covering lots of records,the stones did it too so did dusty and other people there was an old northern soul record "you turned my bitter into sweet by mary love on modern records it came to light later that linda lewis had recorded that on u.k polydor,fascinating!the same happened with susan barrets r.c.a recording whats it gonna be dusty had done it too i would love to know the stories about how all those things came to be as they are quite obscure records especially r.c.a things from that time were quickly ground down thats why stock copies are ultra rare
jazz pilgrim bought up the subject of the cunard yanks here once that reminded me of that great b.b.c film lenny henry made the [title escapes me at the moment] on that very subject where he teamed up with an american guy who had lots of records and they became d.js in liverpool they were also on the run from the mob,its just come to me "coast to coast" it was hysterical and had a great soundtrack and has never been repeated which us a shame.
must try and get some bob wooler stories from my friend kevin when i come there tomorrow he was a cavern doorman he did tell me a story once when stevie wonder played there he was the one that had to escort stevie to the toilet thay have some jokes about that but im not gonna diss stevie here :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Greg Wilson]

Discodisk: I've got 'Coast To Coast' on video, taped it off the TV when it was on. If you want me to run you a copy off just let me know. The American guy was a serviceman stationed at Burtonwood (I presume) and this was obviously reflective of another route into the UK for US records back then. I'm amazed it hasn't be shown more often. Do you remember 'The Chiropodist'!? And the ice cream van they took the mobile disco around in? The soundtrack was excellent, with all those great 60's Soul tunes. Top programme.

I met Lenny Henry back in 1976. He was appearing for the week in cabaret at a club in Birkenhead and I'd been booked to DJ in a seperate room of the club (I was 16 then). Lenny was best known for the TV sit-com 'The Fosters' and had yet to become a national name via 'Tiswas' (he would have only been about 17 or 18 himself). Anyhow, it was a midweek night and the club was empty. After he'd finished his show he came into the Disco room and asked me if I had anything by Parliament. I'd recently bought an import copy of their new album 'The Clones Of Dr Funkenstein', and he was buzzing because he'd yet to hear it. As there were only a handful of customers in I just played both sides the album while we sat and had a couple of drinks together.

First Bob Wooler, and now Lenny Henry in the same thread, better be careful or I'll get myself a reputation for being a namedropper!

[DISCODISK]

hi greg i knew you were gonna say you had that tape i actually have it i didnt know it was going to be on at the time and i was videoing the programme before there wasnt enough tape for the whole lot so it was split between two tapes ive never been able to find the first part the bit when they are going through the records and the camera was focoused on them it looked really good,in truth ill be lucky to find the second part as im the worst for labeling videos so a copy of that would be a real treat.
so you had a few drinks with lenny over the latest parliment album! there was a funk programme a few years ago on t.v there was a whole programme on that and lenny went to the u.s and interviewed that gang did you see that.
going back to the cavern club i spoke to my friend earlier tonight,he knew bob wooler very well,he told me another story involving bob,john lennon and a black eye! hes got all the stories!perhaps ill tell you more when we meet on tuesday :lol:

[Greg Wilson]

Discodisk: Just about to get all the necessary software so I can transfer from VHS to DVD, so when I suss it all out I'll run you a DVD off.

Never caught the Lenny Henry Funk programme, but I'd obviously love to see it!

It was a bit more than a black eye that Bob Wooler got. It's pretty sad really, as that ended his association with The Beatles (he was paid off so he wouldn't press charges), and all because of a wind-up about Lennon going on holiday with Brian Epstein. Bob never cashed in on his Beatles legacy when he was alive, but he said he'd written a book that would be issued after his death (which would obviously be a major event for Beatleheads). I'll have to find out what's happening about this, there's bound to be stuff in there that nobody but the inner-circle knows, not least details about the above incident.

See you on Tuesday at the Soul Cafe.

[efunk_adelic]

discodisk,

i am searchin' for it... I basically just want to hear the record... but will buy a shitty copy for $20.00 ... lol
and that other record by her sounds interesting...
:D