Northern Soul: That's Not Northern Soul... It is Now

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Simon White

AT THE DISCOTHEQUE
(Feldman - Goldstein - Gottehrer)

Sung by Chubby Checker
PARKWAY 949
1965


:-P

Don't tell me !!
Chubby Checker is another one of those maybe /perhaps but its doubtful Northern Soul plays too !! ;)

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[tony98]

Chubby Checker linked with Northern Soul i'm afraid so,he also had another track which had some play "You don't Know".In fact a few Cameo Parkway artists had some Northern play - Bunny Sigler - Dee Dee Sharp (Gamble) - The Orlons. An interesting footnote is that Gamble & Huff started off as session men on Cameo.

[Simon White]

The point of posting the lyrics up really was in response to the Brainstorm lyrics.

'At The Discotheque' comes from 1965 and so using the first one of Remicks' three yardsticks

"... written for and about disco ....
.... pressed on a disco 12" single (always a good clue ) ...
....that was marketed & distributed exclusively and specifically to disco clubs .

Can't get any more disco than that.:grin:"

'At The Discotheque' is at least one third a Disco record ! ;)

As for yardstick two....
'Tainted Love' ,'Out On The Floor' ,'Wade In The Water', 'My Man A Sweet Man' and 'I Get The Sweetest Feeling' from Gloria Jones, Dobie Gray, Ramsey Lewis and Marlena Shaw, Millie Jackson and Jackie Wilson respectively all meet that critera having all been issued on 12" single. There are more too.

And yardstick three....given that Brainstorm's track was widely commercially available for sale....

Or am I just being pedantic? ;) ;)





I'm going back to listening to Celi Bee's 'One Love'

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Simon White

The point of posting the lyrics up really was in response to the Brainstorm lyrics.

The point of posting Brainstorm's lyrics was in response to how imprudent it is to try to claim it as any other intended music style other than "disco" . iow, the songs explicit lyrics are "disco guy " ... not "northern soul guy " ....

'At The Discotheque' comes from 1965 and so using the first one of Remicks' three yardsticks
"... written for and about disco ....
.... pressed on a disco 12" single (always a good clue ) ...
....that was marketed & distributed exclusively and specifically to disco clubs .


'At The Discotheque' is at least one third a Disco record ! ;)

Those are indeed three yardsticks ..... but these three aren't the only ones . Another one that eliminates that old Chubby Checker tune would be that a disco song would never be some original musty record from the sixties .
( that's a yardstick that could define a record as Northern Soul though ... so Chubby's still in the running there !)

As for yardstick two....
'Tainted Love' ,'Out On The Floor' ,'Wade In The Water', 'My Man A Sweet Man' and 'I Get The Sweetest Feeling' from Gloria Jones, Dobie Gray, Ramsey Lewis and Marlena Shaw, Millie Jackson and Jackie Wilson respectively all meet that critera having all been issued on 12" single. There are more too.

HEADLINE NEWS !!!
Turns out Disco didn't invent the 12" single ...that honour goes to Northern Soul ! Judging by the titles here ... they were apparently pressing them prior to the disco era .

And yardstick three....given that Brainstorm's track was widely commercially available for sale....

OK... but this is no yardstick defeater and it's actually further evidence that the tune was indeed disco..... 95% of disco songs were commercially available in some form during their time of play .... either as a 7" single or an album cut or as a commercially pressed 12" ... or all three !
This was after all , a crassly commercial artform .....remember !??
And, this is an important part of what made the disco scene PROgressive: .... the music was concurrently being freshly pressed and made available on the market to coincide with and in response to ... its disco play .

So yes, one very good disco yardstick is these intentional pressings of promo copies issued specifically for disco pools and disco clubs.
Many of them even say "For DISCO use only " :-P



I'm going back to listening to THE GRAND TOUR 8-):)


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[Simon White]

Isn't the weather inclement/hot/wet/dry/cold (delete which does not apply) for the time of year ?

(It's called changing the subject)



I'm going back to listening to Mouzon's 'Everybody Get Down'

[Soulpreacher]

Great reading this 'Northern Vs. Disco' thread, as that is what it seems to have become. Northern soul is far too complex to put into one statement. It was not all about wigan casino, not always about 60s stompers. With venues all over the U.K., all playing each ones own version of what is northern soul, has led us to this mixed bag of records. Yes mainly 60s sounds make up the major part of the northern scene, but 70s releases were played at the time, mainly the 7" version. So discos in the U.S. played the more disco slanted 12" versions, the u.k. northern & modern scenes played the 7" versions. Simon is so right, when he tells us about northern & disco both being fundamentaly 'black' dance scenes (not saying it was totaly black but the main chunk is by black artists). And the northern soul scene is very alive and well today, with new release tracks finding favour in northern soul events. Mr Day - soul on wax, played as a white label at both modern & northern soul nights back in 2000/01 I think, later went on to become a bit of an underground house fave when it got a full release. So we were ahead of the pack, so what. It just proves that the northern soul scene has always had its forward thinking side, alongside its 'stuck up its own butt' '64 to '69 only mob. And it would have played what were in the u.s., disco tracks as new releases in the 70s, but would have just been seen as uptempo 70 soul tunes in the u.k..

And as for 'Loving is really my game'.......I love the Betty Wright 7" version.

Ben S.

[Simon White]

I've put up last weeks 'Metropolitan Soul Show' playlist in the 'Online DJ Mixes and Web Radio Shows' sectionn.. the second half of the show features some 70's and 80's things relevant to this thread.

[tony98]

One of the points i've tried to make is what is "Northern Soul" it seems to have changed from it's original meaning over the years.Disco and mid-tempo 70's soul are played now,yes we know some places played that in the 70's but it's much more prevalent now.Another example of how the music has changed is a few years ago a friend got in touch looking for two indemand "Northern" tracks. One was Nino Tempo "Sister James" A&M 73' (Funk Istrumental) lucky for him i had a spare copy.The other one was Freddie King "100 Ways" Federal 62' "Blues Guitarist" but i would'nt part with it. Can anybody think of a new definition for "Northern Soul".

[Greg Wilson]

Thought this interview with Colin Curtis that's just gone online would be of interest:

Colin Curtis is one the greats of British DJing, having been through every phase of its development from northern soul right through to house. He was resident at Blackpool Mecca with Ian Levine in its halcyon period and then went on to run Rafters and Berlin in Manchester. Having sold all of his records, these days he plays mainly CDs:
http://www.djhistory.com/djhistory/archiveInterviewDisplay.php?interview_id=50

[marmite7]

Whew! That took some reading (and a couple of ciggies to calm my shattered nerves), cos why's everyone getting so worked up?

Northern Soul is (was) fundamentally a UK phenomenon, cos our American cousins hated the music and shipped it over to us in vast quantities as ballast on out-going ships. Once they docked here (North of England mainly) the ballast wasn't needed anymore and the vinyl was dumped...........ready for erstwhile vinyl collectors to take their pick.

Down south the clubs / discoteques were playing a heady mix of funk, RnB & Motown but soon to be replaced by acid-fuelled psyche.

The North continued to worship the 4x4 beats of imported black soul, much of which in truth did sound like poor man's Tamla, with the 60's Mods leading the way, given that style & "hip-ness" were essential to their way of life, no self-respecting Mod would stoop so low as to dance to anything uncool ;)

The fascination & elitism which pervades the Northern Soul scene isn't a bad thing (as some have hinted at), cos anyone can listen to Gloria Jones - Tainted Love or Frank Wilson's - Do I Love (Indeed I Do) (used in A KFC advert for gawd's sake), but it's the sheer joy of hearing a new tune dropped (albeit one recorded perhaps 35 years ago) that makes the scene what it is. Northern Soul is just a moniker for uptempo dance tunes, (and yes Quinney, some do have poor production, but the artists were making music they loved and for that they can't be faulted)............

however to get to the crux of the matter, I do believe we're talking about crossovers here aren't we?

Tunes which straddled the divide of Northern Soul & Disco and could be appreciated by both sets of dancers.

Pretty much like today's dance scene innit ;)

One man's House music is another's techno / trance etc etc etc etc

Each n every N Soul fan has their fave sound, whether it's four to the floor stompers, floaters or big soul ballad shufflers!

For me personally, I couldn't stand the crossover tunes, cos all I wanted was 60's stompers! If I wanted disco-sounding Northern Soul, I'd have gone to a disco, instead of paying me fiver at a N Soul allnighter!!

Contact? Awesome disco classic, but not at a soul night thank you very much. Why would I wanna listen to that when Max Rees or Kev Roberts (or even Tony Clayton) is spinning, when I could just pop into me local Ritzy and hear it there ;)

Give me The Spellbinders, The Showmen, James Bounty, Candi Staton (The Upper Hand- disco diva did Northern first ;) ) The Present or The International GTO's over First Choice - This Is The House Where Loved Died, Van McCoy - Soul Improvisations, The Playthings - Stop What You're Doing To Me or The Tramps - Hold Back The Night...........all major crossover's and great records in their own right, but not what I wanted to hear.

Pretty much the same if you'd paid a visit to The Paradise Garage and the dj dropped a Bee Gees or Ottowan track - innit ;)

Someone mentioned that N Soul was regressive, whereas disco was progressive.................

anyone remember Dibango's Soul Makossa being a hit first time round? Nope, it was rediscovered (as are the majority of N Soul tunes) and played to an appreciative crowd where its popularity ensured it was a hit second time round. (Just like Dean Parrish's - I'm On My Way in the UK)

Soul / dance fans arguing over soul & dance - tut tut.

United we stand in our love of black music and all it's deriatives :p

[remicks]

Originally Posted by marmite7

Candi Staton (The Upper Hand- disco diva did Northern first ;) ) ;)

Of course, many many AMERICAN soul artists like Candi Staton recorded these older styled soul records during the 60's and early 70's when that was the sound of the day ..... before progressing on to American disco once it arrived .

It's a great list of wonderful artists ... I'll make it up if no one else does ...

United we stand in our love of black music and all it's deriatives :razz:

Disco --- unlike "Northern" Soul --- was also progressive in its color blindness.

Sorry Marmite, I think your post makes some really good points , but this repeated racial assertion ... (always from folks in the UK (? :roll: ) ) ... I say is out of place on these culturally rich , and proud of it , disco boards. 8) :)

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[Simon White]

Originally Posted by remicks

Of course, many many AMERICAN soul artists like Candi Staton recorded these older styled soul records during the 60's and early 70's when that was the sound of the day ..... before progressing on to American disco once it arrived .

It's a great list of wonderful artists ... I'll make it up if no one else does ...




Disco --- unlike "Northern" Soul --- was also progressive in its color blindness.

Sorry Marmite, I think your post makes some really good points , but this repeated racial assertion ... (always from folks in the UK (? :roll: ) ) ... I say is out of place on these culturally rich , and proud of it , disco boards. 8) :)

*****

Oh dear...I think I finally realised what the agenda is here....:(

Remicks you constantly chose to ignore one FACT although history tells you otherwise.
Disco in it's original form is a strand of Black music whether you like that or not.

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Simon White

Oh dear...I think I finally realised what the agenda is here....:(

Remicks you constantly chose to ignore one FACT although history tells you otherwise.
Disco in it's original form is a strand of Black music whether you like that or not.

Simon, there is nothing "oh dear " or " :( " about my agenda ... so no, I don't think you do realize it .

But yes , I would like to know what is meant by this "original form " of disco music you have pinpointed .


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[Simon White]

Originally Posted by remicks

Simon, there is nothing "oh dear " or " :( " about my agenda ... so no, I don't think you do realize it .

But yes , I would like to know what is meant by this "original form " of disco music you have pinpointed .


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I'm not even going to dignify you with a proper reply, mate.

[remicks]

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:-P ..... ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ....... oh dear , it's catching !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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