Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft

[Disco Funk]

I take it from the lack of response from Remicks, that the debate is over? James Brown IS the Original Disco Man!

getupoffathatthing

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

I take it from the lack of response from Remicks, that the debate is over? James Brown IS the Original Disco Man!

getupoffathatthing

Disco Funk

Why Mr. Disco Funk ...I do believe you are egging me on !!!








That's the spirit!!!! ...........

....we have only begun to scratch the surface of this debate !!! .
....& I will respond to your last post soon.

This JB video is great . What would you say is making that particular song of his finally chart under the disco banner ?? I 'm hearing this: ....that bass line groove is more disco....there's a prominent high hat ....and isn't this song about three times faster than his typical sound??? Anyway , I'm glad the self-proclaimed "original" disco man finally found his way to the disco chart in August of 1976 .....

Which was of course eight months after Isaac charted with this:

:


.... Isaac .... as usual....setting the tone for the future? ??? ......three years later and it would've mixed easily into Arpeggio's LOVE AND DESIRE ....



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[Disco Funk]

Not trying to one-up myself, but I think you might really enjoy this youtube clip:

Ike Shaft

[Videoskooter]

Okay, now that you guys had your fun in this topic it's time to put an end to this quest!!

The original Disco man? Hayes? Nope! Brown? Nada!

It's Johann Strauss, the man who put the P into Philly and the E into Eurodisco. If the man was alive today he'd probably made top ranking house!

Joking? Not at all. Listen to his popular music! Go to a concert by André Rieu and just add the drums in your mind. You will be voggueing your a** off!

Discussion closed, basta e finito







Proof??





Man, I shafted them all and I Feeeeeeeeel Goooooooowd!

[Disco Funk]

That first clip, isn't that the Blue Danube? We all know who did that one during the disco era.

Hmm...I you're trying to one up by hitting the classical music era, I'm afraid one guy has got Strauss beat: Ludwig Van. :)

5th of Beethoven

Someone attempted to sync up some disney Mickey Mouse footage to the music, with poor results (you can tell during the dancing part it's not even at the same tempo as the music).

Disco funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Barry White's 'You're The First, The Last...' was probably his most 'accurate' foray into the disco genre, but I still say that his sound was not disco. His other songs would have not worked well in a set of disco standards from 75 onward,

Hi Discofunk

I was just reviewing the REMEMBER THE PARTY playlist for this time around and noticed Barry White on there and I remembered your comment so I went and reviewed the other parties and I found these various Barry White mix applications :

Ist party :

Boystown Gang --- Remember Me/ Ain't No Mountain High Enough Suite
Barry White --- You're The First, The Last, My Everything
Gloria Gaynor ---- Never Can Say Goodbye

2nd Party

Bohannon --- Let's Start The Dance
Love Unlimited Orchestra --- My Sweet Summer Suite
Ray Martinez & Friends --- Lady Of The Night

4th party

phyllis hyman ---loving you, losing you
barry white --- let the music play
bionic boogie --- dance little dreamer

5th party

You'll Never Find Another Love Like Mine --- Lou Rawls
Can't Get Enough Of Your Love, Babe --- Barry White
Young Hearts Run Free --- Candi Staton

Latest party

The Love I Lost --- Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes
My Sweet Summer Suite --- The Love Unlimited Orchestra
Ten Percent --- Double Exposure

Saturday Night, Sunday Morning --- Thelma Houston
It's Ecstasy (When You Lay Down Next To Me) --- Barry White
More More More --- The Andrea True Connection

So in the right hands ..... they'll fit in fine ....






( also I'm reading James Brown's autobiography ......so stay tuned ! )



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[Disco Funk]

As much as I love Barry White and the Love Unlimited Orchestra, I still can't hear them as playing 'disco music' per se. Sure, their music got play in the clubs, but if we're defining the genre has having certain characteristics, than his sound doesn't fit completely.

But going back to Ike versus James, I think James might even get credit for having the first four on the floor drum groove going on one of his tracks. If you listen to 'I Got Ants In My Pants', which was released in 1972, you can hear the drummer (who I think is John 'Jabo' Starks) hitting the kick drum on every beat on the 'chorus' sections. He doesn't do it on the verses, but it's apparen on the chorus. So James may have invented, or at least pioneered, the four on the floor beat, which Earl Young a year later used on the philly disco sound.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

As much as I love Barry White and the Love Unlimited Orchestra, I still can't hear them as playing 'disco music' per se. Sure, their music got play in the clubs, but if we're defining the genre has having certain characteristics, than his sound doesn't fit completely.
Disco Funk

This is what worries me DF about trying to pigeon hole disco music into a certain criteria of sounds . No matter what that criteria gets narrowed down to... it will always wind up eliminating certain tunes ... even disco classics ... because they "don't fit" the definition . The problem with a set definition is that disco music was never a singular sound .... not even on day one ... and it redefined itself in various ways each day there after .

That is why the disco charts are so valuable ..... anyone wanting to know what disco "is" ..... simply can go check it out .

Here's the disco that was playing heavily in October of 1976

October 16, 1976
Billboard Disco Action Top 40: Chart #8
Disco Compilation Consensus Chart #104 (volume 2: (1976 = #42 )


1) MY SWEET SUMMER SUITE - Love Unlimited Orchestra
2 weeks @ #1
2) CHERCHEZ LA FEMME / SOUR & SWEET/ I'LL PLAY THE FOOL - Doctor Buzzard's Original Savannah Band
2 weeks @#1
3) MIDNIGHT LOVE AFFAIR - Carol Douglas
4) NICE 'N' NAASTY (LP- all cuts)- The Salsoul Orchestra
5) DOWN TO LOVE TOWN - The Originals
6) YOU + ME = LOVE - Undisputed Truth
7) I DON'T WANNA LOSE YOUR LOVE - The Emotions
8. CALYPSO BREAKDOWN/ (R) WHERE IS THE LOVE - Ralph MacDonald
9) FULL TIME THING (Between Dusk & Dawn) - Whirlwind
10) YOU SHOULD BE DANCING - Bee Gees
9 weeks @ #1

(courtesy of markydefad )


I have a feeling that some definitions of "disco" wouldn't include the three songs on that list that were so universally popular they eclipsed all others and went to #1 .
That would include Barry White's SWEET SUMMER SUITE ... and that to me would be a travesty .





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About the Barry White /Isaac Hayes disco connection , I found this recently in regards to it. Normally I think the argument should be based on our listening to the music itself (who cares what some talking head has to say) ...but sometimes it helps to have some collaboration of ideas for added support ...This one being particularly spot on (IMO) ....

This is the opening line of the Barry White synopsis found in the book :

SOUL MUSIC A-Z
by Hugh Gregory

The considerable girth of Barry White loomed into prominence in the early 1970's with a series of hits that slotted neatly into the transitional stage between the lush overstated arrangements of Isaac Hayes and the emergence of disco.

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[UltimateBeeGeesFan]

Whoa; when it comes to James brown and Isaac Hayes, Hayes really had more of that newer, (for that time sound) sound that would become disco. One song is all it takes Quinny; and with Shaft and Disco Connection (which is instrumental) Isac Hayes brought forth the beginnings of disco.
James Brown isn't as discoish in my mind; just more dance, dance music; not disco dance music.
I agree with remicks, Isaac Hayes was more of a pioneer in disco than Brown. I don't consider Brown to be even disco for the most part, but funk, soul with a disco label when he needed one.

[Cory Ander]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Wanna hear James brown's most danceable record pre Disco (apart from Sex machine), then check out There Was A Time?
That was sooooooo revolutionary when ot came out. Straight ahead 4/4 uptempo funk that really did the business.

There's no contest between Ike and JB. JB wins hands down when it comes to danceability. Ike was not much more than a cabaret act by comparison.

not 100% sure I'd describe Hayes as a cabaret act since he is listed as co-writer of some of the most beloved soul songs in music history, including more memorable hits by Sam and Dave than I can remember.

[remicks]

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New quotes :

From VH1 ROCK STARS ENCYCLOPEDIA :


Isaac Hayes:
HOT BUTTERED SOUL
1969

DJs are hooked by the unique formula which Hayes introduces on the four song album --- familiar songs in extended personalized versions, an intimate 'rap' monologue, and arrangements with wah-wah guitars and muscular funk rhythm sections in symphonic layers of strings

( My My . How disco-y )

1970

Hayes maintains this appearance (shaved head/ gold chains ) on his tours (undertaken with a 40 piece orchestra) .

......Very Interesting .... A soul artist creating music that needs a forty piece orchestra in 1970


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[remicks]

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...... adding a bit more to this twisted tale concerning Isaac's HOT BUTTERED SOUL lp.

In another thread Disco Funk you identified the releases of Al Green as the inspiration for the heavy beat formula Thom Bell applied to his Spinners tunes --- beginning with I'LL BE AROUND and continuing on several hits after.
Seems AL also had some influence on Isaac Hayes :


In BLACK MUSIC ( A Hamlyn book printed in 1974) ... an interview therein with Al Green includes this comment :

"A thing called ONE WOMAN started me off with HI . I recorded it before Isaac Hayes .... see he'd come over to the studio where he heard my rendition of it and liked the song ,which was written by Sandy Rhodes and Charles Chambers. So Isaac went back over to Stax and put a version on his LP HOT BUTTERED SOUL --- the first song on the album."

Just found it interesting the way these various influences were cross pollinating the music being created then by Isaac and others .....


Al Green ONE WOMAN

Isaac Hayes ONE WOMAN

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[remicks]

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And then .......When Isaac Hayes meets James Brown ....you get something like this :




"That Clarence Reid is a bad mutha...." ....

.."Hey , Blowfly shut 'cho mouth ! "


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