Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft

[remicks]

******

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Hey Remicks,

I can't exactly remember what you said were the ingredients that Hayes brought to the music that would ultimately be known as 'disco'. Was it the use of strings? High bpms? He certainly didn't bring the funk into the music. His style was more soul, R&B. If disco was mainly about the strings, then you could argue that Hayes really just copied Gamble & Huff or Thom Bell because they were using a lot of strings on their mid-tempo and up-tempo tracks in the late 60s. Just check out the Delfonics music, as a prime example.

Yes ... I agree ... strings in R&B go back to the earliest R&B releases of the 50's (as do horns) and are the crux of the Motown sound of the sixties ... so nothing new there . Isaac's influence is from two fronts : The impact from his movie scoring , SHAFT specifically ... and the ways its' sound defined the disco-y themes for dozens of seventies TV action/drama shows and movies ... as well as a chunk of disco tunes that mirrored that wah wah sound .

And as important ....his revolutionary treatment of pop music in the late sixties ....specifically on the HOT BUTTERED SOUL lp . There is just a flavor to be found there ....the flavor isn't dance ... it isn't funk ....but it is the flavor of disco .... before its later used to actually flavor disco .....

Disco Funk : Isaac Hayes did to the occasional funky song, but his bread and butter was syrupy, usually Burt Bacharach covers, love songs.

Yesssss indeed .....and two of those songs he applied that special Isaac flavor to were WALK ON BY and NEVER CAN SAY GOODBYE.... the exact same couple of songs soon to be canonized as disco songs by Meco via Gloria Gaynor . A staggeringly odd coincidence ... (coincidence?? )

______________________


Tonight I am listening to James Brown's JAM 1980's LP ....released smack dab in the middle of the disco era .... in 1978 . On the back cover in pink letters on a line all its' own it reads : JAMES BROWN - NEW DISCO SOUND .
And this note ---
Here I am back where we all started because now people want real dance music. I am so glad that the public got wise to the electronic sounds! Either you can or you cannot . () I thank God they say I can. ( ) Here it is so spank your butt off .
Love you,
James Brown

All I can say is that if James Brown thinks that this album was what the dance crowd wanted in 1978 ....he was simply delusional.

This LP was not a "new disco sound " as promoted on the cover .... in fact it's a double lie ....it's neither "new" nor is it "disco" . It was just yet more of the same old James Brown funky sound ..... and not the best of that either ....

*****

[remicks]

*****

Thanks to Videoskooter finding this on Youtube ......
here's a really good opportuntiy to put some of all this to a test .

Here is Isaac Hayes performing a shortened version of WALK ON BY in 1969
(a song soon to be redone again in full disco style by GLORIA GAYNOR )

No this is not disco disco .... very slow BPM for one thing ... but is it on the right track ( in flavor) toward disco for 1969 ??? Is it a precursor ??
That’s the challenge ….

Listen to the way the bass line leads the song ...the prominent four on the floor thumping that kicks in at 2:05 and then remains til the end ... the instruments used: especially very upfront drums ….ongoing bass line .. strings …clarinet .. flute. The significant use of a female chorus .( as important to the overall sound that they are strongly featured on stage too ) The treatment of the song .... the mood .... touching and emotional ... very sensual …. YET with a groove .....

Is anybody else doing anything like this musically ???

Before listening try first mentally playing St Tropez' JE TAIME in your mind because I think they are quite interestingly similar .. ....



And here's the biggest part of this analysis .... ...
Right at 1:17 in this video .… when most of the music drops out and all that remains is the drum thump and the growling guitar... right when Isaac hums ... mmmmm mmmm mmmm mmm mmmm .... imagine right then mixing into Donna Summer's LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY at a part where she picks up his "mmmms" with her moans of .... ooooh love to love you baby ....

Does it work for you ????? If you hear what I do ...that mix .....

then you're on to what I 've been talking about .....





And I thank you for indulging me


*****

[originalbigm]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

Thanks to Videoskooter finding this on Youtube ......
here's a really good opportuntiy to put some of all this to a test .

Here is Isaac Hayes performing a shortened version of WALK ON BY in 1969
(a song soon to be redone again in full disco style by GLORIA GAYNOR )

No this is not disco disco .... very slow BPM for one thing ... but is it on the right track ( in flavor) toward disco for 1969 ??? Is it a precursor ??
That’s the challenge ….

Listen to the way the bass line leads the song ...the prominent four on the floor thumping that kicks in at 2:05 and then remains til the end ... the instruments used: especially very upfront drums ….ongoing bass line .. strings …clarinet .. flute. The significant use of a female chorus .( as important to the overall sound that they are strongly featured on stage too ) The treatment of the song .... the mood .... touching and emotional ... very sensual …. YET with a groove .....

Is anybody else doing anything like this musically ???

Before listening try first mentally playing St Tropez' JE TAIME in your mind because I think they are quite interestingly similar .. ....



And here's the biggest part of this analysis .... ...
Right at 1:17 in this video .… when most of the music drops out and all that remains is the drum thump and the growling guitar... right when Isaac hums ... mmmmm mmmm mmmm mmm mmmm .... imagine right then mixing into Donna Summer's LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY at a part where she picks up his "mmmms" with her moans of .... ooooh love to love you baby ....

Does it work for you ????? If you hear what I do ...that mix .....

then you're on to what I 've been talking about .....





And I thank you for indulging me


*****

Why don't we all start pulling out snippets of 1960 songs that had some element of the arrangements that we can label as this was the start of disco.Ridiculous of course. Your particular analysis of the song does not elevate it to accepted fact. Issac Hayes was not the first person to incorporate arrangements of strings and four on the floor rhythms.Trying to equate a four on the floor beat in a ballad does not come close to justifying this as disco in any form.

"The Disco Sound originated in Philly (thanks to the greats, Leon Huff and Kenny Gamble) as a progressive evolution of Philly Soul. Around the same time, Barry White released his own brand of sophisticated Disco under his own name and his band The love Unlimited Orchestra."
DiscoStyle.com FAQ's; Definition of Disco and the Disco Backlash

Shapiro ties in two disparate strains of music that together became the prototype of the disco sound: Motown and Northern Soul, which originated in the hardscrabble coal counties of Northern England (and influenced the Beatles).
New York Blade Online

A list of milestones in the development of disco according to Barry Lederer

1969 - The Church, later called the Sanctuary opens on West 43rd Street in NYC and the legendary Francis Grasso is the DJ.

1969 - Jerry Bulter's "Only The Strong Survive" is released and helps define the Philly sound that would become one of the most important components of Disco history

1969 - The Stonewall Riots (- need I say more)

1969 - The Cockettes, featuring Sylvester opens as theatre troupe in San Francisco

1970 - David Mancuso and his Loft parties begin in NYC and become a forerunner of many clubs to come

1970 - The Ice Palace opens in Fire Island, followed by the legendary Botel and the Sandpiper in the Pines - All 3 are major forces in the disco movement

1972 - 3 - Eddie Kendricks "Girl You need A Change Of Mind" and the Temptations "Law Of The Land" become a prototype of Disco records

1973 - Kool Dj Herc throws his first party in the Bronx and Hip Hop is born

1973 - Salsoul changes it name from Mexicana and becomes one of the most successful record labels

1973 - Soul Makossa enters the pop charts and after being a favorite at top NY nightclubs

1973 - "The Love I Lost" is released featuring the incredible drummer Earl Young whose hi - hat sound would soon define the disco beat

DISCO ROOTS

Don't see Issac Hayes "Walk On By" as a milestone Most song milestones interestingly enough are Motown or Philly related. Jerry Butler has had his hat thrown into "Original Disco Man" contest

Soul and funk records that influenced disco include:

• Sly and the Family Stone - "Dance to the Music" (1968), "Everyday People" (1968), "Thank You (Falletin Me Be Mice Elf Agin)" (1970) and "Family Affair" (1971)
• Hugh Masekela - "Grazing In The Grass" (1968)
• Friends of Distinction - "Grazing In The Grass" (vocal version - 1969)
• The Honey Cone - "Want Ads" (1971), "Stick Up" (1971)
• Isaac Hayes - "Theme from Shaft" (1971) and "Hung Up On My Baby" (1974)
• Incredible Bongo Band - "Bongo Rock" (1973)
• Eumir Deodato - "Also Sprach Zarathustra" (1973)
• Average White Band - "Pick Up the Pieces" (1974), "Cut the Cake" (1975)
• James Brown - "Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Sex Machine" (1970), "Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved" (1971), "Get On The Good Foot" (1972)

The Motown Sound also featured many elements that would be associated with the disco sound:

• Martha & The Vandellas - "Dancing In The Street" (1964)
• The Temptations - "Since I Lost My Baby" (1964), "Cloud Nine" (1968), "I Can't Get Next to You" (1969), and "Papa was a rolling stone" (1972)
• The Four Tops - "I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch)" (1965)
• The Supremes - "You Keep Me Hangin' On" (1966) and "Reflections" (1967)
• Jackson 5 - "I Want You Back" (1969), "ABC" (1970), "The Love You Save" (1970), and "Mama's Pearl" (1971)
• Stevie Wonder - "Signed, Sealed, Delivered, I'm Yours" (1970), "Superstition" (1972) and "Higher Ground" (1973)
• Diana Ross - "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (1970)

http://www.answers.com/topic/disco

Now based on the above list and your assertions I guess we need to recognize all of these artists as the "Original disco man/men,woman/women"


Seriously Mr.Hayes while having contributed his little bit to the development of the disco sound certainly will never be recognized as the architect or creator of the disco sound as there is just no predominant discography, as I have previously submitted, to back it up.

As Mr.James Brown so cleverly espoused it's time to "Give It Up and Turn It Loose"

[remicks]

*****


Did you give any time to listening at all OBM ??
That is supposed to be the point this time around ... the challenge of listening for ourselves rather than going to other disco sites to find how how we're supposed to think ... . . I'm not saying in order to agree ... just as a chance to delve into this topic more directly ........ an exercise intended to explore one of Isaac's songs and apply it directly to the ongoing discussion.
This song is but one piece of the bigger Isaac Hayes puzzle and not presented as the one end-all determinate ... I am still speaking of Hayes' overall sound , his musical progression, his influence on the future... which will be disco .

Wish NEVER CAN SAY GOODBYE would show up too ....the two together make a stronger case from which to reference.
Nonetheless, enough solid evidence is present in WALK ON BY to get a better idea of what it is I am talking about.... for anyone who wants to make the effort .
.
So thanks for giving it a try .................. if you did ..............?


Hope others will try it and find the exercise a bit more insightful .





*****

[sageone]

The comment that james brown was the original disco man needs to be taken in context. James Brown was funk straight up and down.

here is a quote of his referring to disco:

Disco is James Brown, hip-hop is James Brown, rap is James Brown; you know what I'm saying? You hear all the rappers, 90 percent of their music is me," (Assoicated Press, 2003).

the album "the original disco man" i think was saying much the same thing, if you look at the cover he is sitting in a very king like chair in the middle of an empty dancefloor, for all of you familiar with metaphor what do you think that means?

I think what he is trying to say is that disco, rap, hiphop, and much modern popular music came from funk, which he created.

as for issac hayes well he was a follower... listen to his first record listen to his fourth, 10th and last. An amazing range of genres.....

whether you like it or not james brown had a massive impact on music that predated disco and the music that disco developed from.

and you can pick over that as much as you want.........

[remicks]

*****

Originally Posted by sageone

the album "the original disco man" i think was saying much the same thing, if you look at the cover he is sitting in a very king like chair in the middle of an empty dancefloor, for all of you familiar with metaphor what do you think that means?....

Simple:

It means:
Play James Brown in a disco : empty the dancefloor!!!! ... ....... ........... ..........



******

[Simon White]

Remix, old fruit (it's an old British term, don't worry ) the weight of opinion is against you..the weight of evidence is against you...the weight of fact is against you. As has been said already...'Give it Up Or Turn It Loose' !

You might as well start a thread arguing why onions are more relevant than oranges !

[remicks]

*****


Simon ....you ol' piece of chewed cud (It's an American term .... don't worry) when you offer .... that is, IF you ever offer a post to this topic that contains some actual substance ..... I'll welcome such productive input and give it a respected response




*****
.... or you'd do as well seeking out threads about oranges/onions......

[Simon White]

No need to be rude remicks. Were you hovering over the keyboard?



OK, lets take it back to your original post -

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

James Brown rightfully deserves a lot of credit for his musical output and influence . The " Godfather of Soul" ... absolutely. "Soul Brother #1 " ....sure.
When it came to makin' it funky .... he said it loud.

But ..... James Brown .... " The Original Disco Man" ??
........... Don't think so .....

That distinction goes to ........Isaac Hayes . 8)

*****

You posed this interesting, very ambiguous, but thought provoking statement. Your evidence, from what I can gather and correct me if I'm wrong (as if you wouldn't..... but it's often difficult to see your point outside of " 'ol remicks is right" ) seems to be based on the fact that Isaac (who I love by the way) recorded some long (but absolutely not 'Disco') records whereas James Brown, whos record as a dancefloor act is unsurpassed in the history of dance music made very few on the fours hi hat type 'Disco' records.

The thread has run on and the weight of evidence and opinion is against you but still you continue to argue what is in reality, a non point!

Let's draw the thread back to your original thought provoking point and see if we can make some sense of it. Maybe you should take this opportunity to put your point across again in away we can all understand ?

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Simon White

No need to be rude remicks. Were you hovering over the keyboard?

Sorry for seeming rude, Simon, you old fruit. (don't worry ---- just a friendly British term)

Well it's just a little frustrating that this thread sits here and then when I do post ...it's then answered with something non productive . If you’d rather compare oranges and onions ( you already used that line BTW elsewhere .....concerning Northern Soul I think) go start such a thread yourself. .... I'm happy right here , discussing the Isaac Hayes DISCO CONNECTION

Originally Posted by Simon White

OK, lets take it back to your original post -

Don't need to go back to the original ....just go back up three posts to the one about Isaac Hayes' "WALK ON BY " Did you bother to take me up on my challenge ?? Did you listen to it with Donna Summer's LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY in mind? Could you sense a similar groove going on ???? ?
It’s the song’s dynamics . It's the ongoing throbbing sensuality. I’ll call it a bedroom ambience. . Also disco-wise, it’s the instruments used and how they are used…. pounding tom tom like drums throughout ....single flute …strings …. the thud of the bass line … growling guitar…The strong presence of a three-girl harmony ( I think I’ve noticed that getting used in disco just a tad bit ... ever by James Brown??? ) Isaacs own softer vocalization … a softer male vocal soon to be common in early disco ( George McCrae , Al Green …. most male vocal groups like The Stylistics … ….and of course not the least amongst them ….Barry White. )
(( Note: The above are each elements NOT James Brown. ))

It’s also Isaac’s taking a differently styled song already familiar to us but restructuring it in a totally different way … now reworked so that it has this pulsing energy. (this will soon be a standard disco producer’s operative ) ...
WALK ON BY is different from anything anyone else is doing ( is it not?? ) ...It’s also not formulated with fitting it onto a 45 in mind … it goes on and on as needed … no rush … it’s like a nice romp in the bedroom …. ah yes ... the preferable long version ....
… he’s creating music that is sensual yet it has a groove ...This is why Isaac's music is deserving of so much credit. Yep ….it's heading toward ....disco.

I listen to WALK ON BY and I can hear Donna Summer , and of course , Barry White , a coming …. can you name a James Brown song that does the same????
All anyone has yet said about James Brown is that he was the king of funk. That's true enough. Title granted . He created funk ..but funk is not disco ....Nor did James Brown invent dancing . He just offered one more style of music among many that people were dancing to in the sixties …early seventies . Just like The Beach Boys did . Stones. Motown….and Petula Clark wannabees.

Here's a million dollar question : Why isn't James Brown's dance music of the early seventies simply called "disco"?? Because it ain't ..It's something else….. it’s something else called "funk" . The James Brown funk sound worked until when???? The arrival of disco. Disco literally bumped it out of fashion. Why didn't his dance music remain popular during the disco era .. Simple: .... ITS NOT DISCO.

What's missing then in that funk music of James Brown…… why isn't his dance music "disco"???? .. It’s lacking some of the very musical elements Isaac Hayes was developing .....lush orchestration ....strings ….wah wah guitar ....sweeter vocals ... bedroom ambience ... These are the things Barry White picked up on and ran with .... these elements that play into the disco sound .


Of course, as mentioned already there are many who'd pin "the original disco man"title on Barry White ...




*****

[Simon White]

I agree with everything you say remicks, you're absolutely right. Hopefully everyone else does too.

[remicks]

*****

Originally Posted by Simon White

I agree with everything you say remicks, you're absolutely right. Hopefully everyone else does too

... I guess we're through then Simon, since you're (correctly) in total agreement with me. Gee, that was a lousy round .... way too easy an opponent .

.... NEXT !!!


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[Disco Funk]

Time for me to chime on back in.

I'm afraid that Walk On By has more in common with Barry White than Disco. And as much as I love Barry White, Gene Page, and the Love Unlimited Orchestra sound, they weren't playing true 'disco', as in the genre of music. They were playing syncopated funk with an orchestral backing. But a syncopated beat with orchestra does not make Disco.

Walk on By was soul with a nice groove and a sweet orchestral arrangement, but it wasn't going in the direction of what would be known as Disco music. It was too slow, and just didn't have the right type of groove that one would associate with true Disco. If you wanna hear something from Stax that would go on to be what sounds like true disco, check out Soul Finger by the Barkays from '67 (I don't know if that was already mentioned in this mammoth debate). Or Last Night by The MarKeys. Those tracks are way more 'Disco-ish' than Walk On By.

In 71, James recorded a track called 'Talkin Loud & Sayin Nothing'. It doesn't have any strings, but it does feature a walking groove that would probably best exemplify the dance music known as Disco music than anything that Ike had done up to that time. But going back earlier, in late 67/early 68, The Godfather of Soul released a track called 'I Can't Stand It', which featured a repetitive groove, not as syncopated as his Cold Sweat excursion into the funk. This track featured emphasis on every beat by the hi-hat, which would be a trademark of the Motown psychedelic funk sound of the late 60s and early 70s. Some people might consider Scorpio by Dennis Coffey as a proto-disco track, which features that similar type of hi-hat heavy groove.

'67/'68 was also the same time when James recorded a track called There Was A Time, which was the outro vamp to Let Yourself Go, another cut that one could call an early glimps into what would become Disco.

So you have numerous tracks not just by the Godfather of Soul, but also by other artists, that have more of a disco feel and groove than anything Isaac Hayes did up until Shaft or Theme From The Men. But since we are debating between James and Ike, that rules out the other examples, and puts James as

The ORIGINAL DISCO MAN.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Time for me to chime on back in.

Good to have you back !!! . Let's go !

I'm afraid that Walk On By has more in common with Barry White than Disco. And as much as I love Barry White, Gene Page, and the Love Unlimited Orchestra sound, they weren't playing true 'disco', as in the genre of music. They were playing syncopated funk with an orchestral backing. But a syncopated beat with orchestra does not make Disco.

This may be where we have a problem in this discussion DF . I'd have to argue that a syncopated beat with an orchestral backing would make for a darn good indicator you might be listening to disco . But of course disco was never limited to only one sound so this doesn't have to be the case in all disco . And I agree that the Isaac Hayes - Barry White commonality is huge. (An important point to this whole discussion). That's the disco connection ! And as far as the Barry White / Gene Page sound being disco ... well don't take my word for it :

MARKY'S DISCO COMPILATION CONSENSUS TOP 16

Chart#3: November 9, 1974

1) --- YOU'RE THE FIRST, THE LAST, MY EVERYTHING/ b/w MORE THAN ANYTHING, YOU'RE MY EVERYTHING (Instrumental) - Barry White
(20th Century 45) (Last week: #2)

Ahem .... that's not just anywhere on the disco chart please note ...that's NUMBER ONE on the disco chart . The third recorded disco chart's Number One , indicating it was a strong influential source for the new sound of the times (disco) ... a sound that was coming from "the sincopated beat w/ orchestral backed" musical camp ... a la Isaac Hayes . This is the progression ..from Isaac to Barry ..Barry heightened the Isaac Hayes approach through the early 70's such that when disco finally got around to distinguishing itself as such ....there he was ...right on top . Interesting that his successful period mirrors the disco era .... isn't it.

Walk on By was soul with a nice groove and a sweet orchestral arrangement, but it wasn't going in the direction of what would be known as Disco music. It was too slow, and just didn't have the right type of groove that one would associate with true Disco. If you wanna hear something from Stax that would go on to be what sounds like true disco, check out Soul Finger by the Barkays from '67

Yes I agree ... the slow beat is what stops his sultry groove from being disco ... and maybe that's the only thing that stops it from being disco ...
I agree 100 % about SOULFINGER ....by the Barkays .....oh and by the way who's that playing on Isaac's HOT BUTTERED SOUL LP ? ...yep ... The Barkays ( restructured after the plane crash granted )

In 71, James recorded a track called 'Talkin Loud & Sayin Nothing'. It doesn't have any strings, but it does feature a walking groove that would probably best exemplify the dance music known as Disco music than anything that Ike had done up to that time.

(note: this is the only video available using this song)

... We can't be talkin' (loud) about this song being disco(ish) ?? You really hear this as disco(ish) DF? This is just more James Brown funk and nothin' but the funk!! ............one of his best though ...

The Godfather of Soul released a track called 'I Can't Stand It', which featured a repetitive groove, not as syncopated as his Cold Sweat excursion into the funk. This track featured emphasis on every beat by the hi-hat, which would be a trademark of the Motown psychedelic funk sound of the late 60s and early 70s.


This is the only version of I CAN'T STAND IT 76 I could locate .... I'm thinking it was re-recorded then in 1976? .... but even then ...re-recorded in 1976 with disco all around him ... yet James still ain't remakin' it into disco ....
listen JAMES BROWN Cut #11

You must be referring to something else .....maybe you can provide a sample ....

'

So you have numerous tracks not just by the Godfather of Soul, but also by other artists, that have more of a disco feel and groove than anything Isaac Hayes did up until Shaft or Theme From The Men. But since we are debating between James and Ike, that rules out the other examples, and puts James as
The ORIGINAL DISCO MAN.

Ah yes SHAFT and THEME FROM THE MEN important songs each . TFTM ....about as disco as you can get in , what 1972 ....


*****

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

Good to have you back !!! . Let's go !
This may be where we have a problem in this discussion DF . I'd have to argue that a syncopated beat with an orchestral backing would make for a darn good indicator you might be listening to disco . But of course disco was never limited to only one sound so this doesn't have to be the case in all disco . And I agree that the Isaac Hayes - Barry White commonality is huge. (An important point to this whole discussion). That's the disco connection ! And as far as the Barry White / Gene Page sound being disco ... well don't take my word for it :

MARKY'S DISCO COMPILATION CONSENSUS TOP 16

Chart#3: November 9, 1974

1) --- YOU'RE THE FIRST, THE LAST, MY EVERYTHING/ b/w MORE THAN ANYTHING, YOU'RE MY EVERYTHING (Instrumental) - Barry White
(20th Century 45) (Last week: #2)

Ahem .... that's not just anywhere on the disco chart please note ...that's NUMBER ONE on the disco chart . The third recorded disco chart's Number One , indicating it was a strong influential source for the new sound of the times (disco) ... a sound that was coming from "the sincopated beat w/ orchestral backed" musical camp ... a la Isaac Hayes . This is the progression ..from Isaac to Barry ..Barry heightened the Isaac Hayes approach through the early 70's such that when disco finally got around to distinguishing itself as such ....there he was ...right on top . Interesting that his successful period mirrors the disco era .... isn't it.
Yes I agree ... the slow beat is what stops his sultry groove from being disco ... and maybe that's the only thing that stops it from being disco ...
I agree 100 % about SOULFINGER ....by the Barkays .....oh and by the way who's that playing on Isaac's HOT BUTTERED SOUL LP ? ...yep ... The Barkays ( restructured after the plane crash granted )
(note: this is the only video available using this song)

... We can't be talkin' (loud) about this song being disco(ish) ?? You really hear this as disco(ish) DF? This is just more James Brown funk and nothin' but the funk!! ............one of his best though ...

This is the only version of I CAN'T STAND IT 76 I could locate .... I'm thinking it was re-recorded then in 1976? .... but even then ...re-recorded in 1976 with disco all around him ... yet James still ain't remakin' it into disco ....
listen JAMES BROWN Cut #11

You must be referring to something else .....maybe you can provide a sample ....

' Ah yes SHAFT and THEME FROM THE MEN important songs each . TFTM ....about as disco as you can get in , what 1972 ....


*****

Alright!! Now the gloves have come off!! :)

Barry White's 'You're The First, The Last...' was probably his most 'accurate' foray into the disco genre, but I still say that his sound was not disco. His other songs would have not worked well in a set of disco standards from 75 onward, whereas James' Talkin Loud & Sayin Nothing, you could speed up the BPMs a bit, and mix it into maybe brass construction, or some other horn-based disco group.

By the way TL&SN was recorded in Oct 70. I double checked my CD. :)

Can't Stand It 76 was actually released on the early 1974 album Hell. Nobody knows why he labelled it with a '76'. I actually did another remake of the track back on the 71 album 'Hot Pants'. Perhaps he thought the new version would get good club play for the next couple of years?

You have to check out the original '67/'68 version. I've been naming it wrong, by the way. It's 'I Can't Stand Myself'

Check out the songs in this link:

I Can't Stand Myself

By the way, the audio sample of I Can't Stand Myself sounds like the song was slowed down. It's actually a bit faster.

Okay, Remicks, since you are playing hardball with the strings and funky groove, a trademark of Ike and the precursor to disco, I'm going to have to play my Ace:

James Brown - World

It's got all of the elements that Ike had, and was released in the same year as Hot Buttered Soul. It may have even been released before! The above performance was broadcast in late Sept 1969 on the show Music Scene. Isaac Hayes 'performed' Walk On By on Music Scene end of Oct 1969.

Disco Funk