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Discussion on Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft within the Funk, Jazz, Northern Soul, Rare Grooves forums, part of the General Music Discussions at DiscoMusic.com category; ***** Originally Posted by Disco Funk But Disco = Dance Music. It's funky dance music, as opposed to other genres of ...
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#61
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OK class .... you aren't paying attention ... so OK .... let's play it this way .... IF James Brown is the original discoman ... because of his danceable funk grooves .....then why isn't the disco era considered to have begun in the mid to late 60's ... when he was a funkin' & a dancin' at his prime ..... HMMMMM ????? *****
__________________ listen to my story : Ride The Mighty High |
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#62
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| :razz: James Brown (born James Joseph Brown, Jr. on May 3, 1933 in Barnwell, South Carolina) is an African-American entertainer, recognized as one of the most influential figures in 20th century music. As a prolific singer, songwriter, bandleader and record producer, Brown was a seminal force in the evolution of gospel and rhythm and blues into soul and funk. He has also left his mark on numerous other musical genres, including rock, jazz, reggae, disco, dance and electronic music, and, most famously, hip-hop music. ;) 1962 James Brown: Live at the Apollo The first million-selling r'n'b album, and a dynamic snapshot of the greatest soul act ever to tread the boards. Brown's influence on modern music is immeasurable, beginning with his impact on Sixties Mod groups and continuing apace with his presence in contemporary urban music. 8) In the mid to late '60s James Brown seemed to have a new bit every month, often based around a new dance step. In 1969 he placed nine songs on the charts, five of thern variations on the same dance"The Popcorn," "Mother Popcorn," "Lowdown Popcorn," "Let A Man Come In And Do The Popcorn (Part 1),""Let A Man Come In And Do The Popcorn (Part 11)." But as Robert Palmer wrote in lhe Rolling Stone Illustrated History OfRock & Roll. "Pervasive as Brown's influence was during the '60s, he shaped the music of the '70s even more profoundly. The chattering choke rhythm guitars, broken bass patterns, explosive horn bures, onechord drones, and evangelical vocal discourses he introduced during the mid'60s have become the linguafranca [universal language] of contemporary black pop, the heartbeat of the discotheques, and a primary ingredient in such farflung musical syntheses as Jamaican reggae and Nigerian Afro-beat." :p The gospel and blues structure of his early records gave way to rhythmic vocals and a complex funk sound. His innovations during this period had a profound influence on popular music styles around the world, including funk, rock, Afro-pop, disco and eventually rap. :???: At around the time of "Mother Popcorn" in 1969, James Brown began to concern himself more and more exclusively with rhythmic distinctions, thus leaving himself ever more open to the all-sounds-[the]-same complaints he'd always been subject to. Having enjoyed his interracial []e, he quickly faded from the consciousness of most white people. But between 1969 and 1971, while whites danced [(if at] all) to Creedence and the Stones and maybe Memphis soul (Motown was out [then], Brown scored 17--17 in three years![--]top-10 r&b hits that changed black dancing and paved the way to disco. What was Ike doing at this time?Hmmmmm:roll: :p Funk music opened the doors to the disco subculture. There was a reaction, particularly among New York's gays, to rock music's domination of the airwaves. People still wanted to dance, but the counterculture had demonized dance music. Funk music served an audience that was tired of guitar solos and boogie rhythms. Black people used to organize dance parties. Persecuted by the public opinion and by puritan sects, gays had created social islands within the metropolis. Their night clubs were as segregated as the black churches in the 1950s. Gays took the same idea of the black dance parties and used the same music for their parties, that were staged in those private clubs, soon to be known as "discos". Discos became so successful that they transformed rapidly from marginalized, discriminated and underground phenomenon to a chic craze for the yuppies. :???: I can recall going to Disco's in the early 70's. Long before "that stupid movie" came out in 1976. These discos that I went to were quite a bit differnt than the one depicted in "that stupid movie". They were usually located in inner city neighborhoods and were either converted warehouse facilities, abandoned resturants and the like. People would show up to these places at around 10 pm or so to dance & mingle. We called them "discos" but another name for them might be "Funk House" !!...........they were very different kinds of places than what younger people today might think of as "disco". People would come dressed in "full funk regalia"...(afro's, 'nik nik' shirts, applejacks, etc) and dance/mingle till the wee hours of the morning. 8) The decade had started out with the music of Jimi Hendrix, Sly Stone, James Brown, Miles Davis, Funkadelic and others completely revolutionizing Black music by somehow blending together jazz, blues, soul & rock n’ roll and inventing something that today we call FUNK. Later in the decade this tradition was carried forward by artists such as Weather Report, Ronnie Laws, Ohio Players, Earth Wind and Fire, Parliment, Gil Scott Heron and many others. This music was not just a "deep groove", it also made the listener think about their lives and the world around them. It embraced not only the concept of being Black in Amerika, but also made the connection to the Caribbean, Afrika and elsewhere. And it was all positive, not "anti white", but "pro black". This force was so powerful in fact that even white people caught the "groove". White people catching this groove manifested itself in the form of Disco.
__________________ Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings. But there are times for you and me when all such things agree...Rush |
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#63
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| ***** How wonderful to see someone put a little effort into this :D:D From where is this taken OBM ???? Of whom are we referring input on this ?? Quote:
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dang ....let's just call him the original musicman period and be done wth it !!!:p Quote:
original funkman original rockman original Afro-popman original discoman original rapman if only he'd done some grunge .... he'd have had a clean sweep !!!!:D :???: Quote:
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and .....whoops.... HOLD IT !!!! :-o:evil::evil: stop the music !!!!! what's this ??? What's this "thank god" comment about someone not being disco !!!! Why is this author THANKING GOD Shapiro wasn't a "DISCOMAN " :p and ... Quote:
Ok, this is written by some no-nothing anti -disco asshole . And , since they are written from within this anti-disco framework .... this person's opinions about disco and who originated it are therefore unqualified and the review of them ends here !!!!! . :evil::evil::evil::evil: .................................................. ..:p *****
__________________ listen to my story : Ride The Mighty High Last edited by remicks; August 2nd, 2006 at 02:59 PM. |
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#64
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| Remicks: Do the honourable thing and admit defeat now. |
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#65
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| http://www.towermusicfestival.co.uk/festival06/html/artists/index.htm<br><br> "The gospel and blues structure of his early records gave way to rhythmic vocals and a complex funk sound. His innovations during this period had a profound influence on popular music styles around the world, including funk, rock, Afro-pop, disco and eventually rap.":p<br><br> http://theliterarythug.blogspot.com/...g_archive.html <br><br>"But their most noxious lie they ever tell is the petite bourgeois myth that disco was somehow the peoples dance music. For if those who propagated that myth were hip enough to go musically uptown to check out P-Funk, Earth Wind and Fire, The Ohio players, War, and what Sly Stone, and James Brown did a few years earlier, they would have found the genuine populist dance music of the '70s."8)<br><br> http://www.funky-stuff.com/Nolen/bio.htm<br><br> "Jimmy Nolen was the founder of funk guitar," states bandleader Johnny Otis, "yet the very people who are influenced by him are not aware of it at all. He was a giant influence in American music." Nolen, who died of a heart attack at age 49 on December 18, 1983, played on several Otis sessions in the late '50s, including the bit "Willie And The Hand Jive," but developed his pervasive funk style during his 16 years with James Brown. Nolen was more than a stylistic innovator; until his death he remained the standard by which all other funk guitarists were measured. Although he was primarily a rhythm guitarist, the impact Nolen had on subsequent players was no less important or farreaching than the influence of rock/ R&B innovators such as Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, and B. B. King. His distinctive style of sixteenth note strumming and funky, choppy chord work (relying heavily on 7th and 9th chords) provided the foundation on which virtually all modern R&B, funk, and disco guitar is based. <br><br>The math is simple JB is the developer/founder/originator/purveyor of modern funk.It's well documented <br>Funk begat Disco <br>Disco = Funk <br>JB's claim was "The Original Disco Man". Disco's have been around since the 1960's and (even before) (Do the Research).As other forum members alluded to people were dancing and grooving to JB long before Mr.Hayes. I'll agree that Issac Hayes did contribute to one of the styles that disco evolved into but let's not forget your original assertion <br><br>"James Brown rightfully deserves a lot of credit for his musical output and influence . The " Godfather of Soul" ... absolutely. "Soul Brother #1 " ....sure. When it came to makin' it funky .... he said it loud. But ..... James Brown .... " The Original Disco Man" ?? ........... Don't think so ..... That distinction goes to ........Isaac Hayes . <br><br>As documented many would disagree and history doesn't support that claim. <br>THE DEFENSE RESTS!
__________________ Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings. But there are times for you and me when all such things agree...Rush |
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#66
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| I recall a remake of an Isaac Hayes classic that was a MAJOR house tune in the 80's..."I Cant Turn Around" from the Chocolate Chip LP...
__________________ Music is the soundtrack to life... DANCE MUSIC turns life into a party!!! let the DJ save your life...Keep Dancin\'!!! Ben \"Hot-Mix\" Koyton |
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#67
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| Hey remicks, check out the BarKay's Soul Finger from '67. Now there's a song with a proto-disco beat. Perhaps they were the godfathers of disco! Disco Funk |
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#68
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| ***** Thanks DF ....and of course it is the funky BarKays ....that is the musical group used by Isaac within much of his music and who also did their own ... SON OF SHAFT spin off .8) OK .....from Isaac Hayes ' JUICY FRUIT (DISCO FREAK ) 1976 “They say disco is here to stay And it will never go away So just as long as they’re around You’ll find me in a disco getting down “ Can anyone find as disco friendly and disco supportive a line from the music of that disco false prophet .... the "other" so-called original discoman !!!! ? :roll::razz::razz::razz: *****
__________________ listen to my story : Ride The Mighty High Last edited by remicks; August 13th, 2006 at 06:57 PM. |
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#69
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| I appreciate James Brown's influence. But if we're talking about out-and-out disco songs of the era, James Brown never had a "Don't Let Go" moment like Isaac Hayes. That was a true disco song. That's where Hayes used all his 1970's r&b influences, and refined them into a true disco classic. (And he gets extra points for producing Linda Clifford's "Shoot Your Best Shot.") I think we have to consider James Brown's voice. I don't think it was smooth enough for disco. Dan Hartman found a way to showcase it on "Living In America" in the 80's. But if Hartman had worked with him in the late 70's during the disco peak, I think he would have used him in a Loleatta Holloway capacity. Used his raw vocals for a "Relight My Fire" type of climax.
__________________ "Because there's music in the air." |
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#70
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| You make some good points FJF, but I'd have to say with James' vocals, you could look at guys like Joe Tex or Edwin Starr and see that they had similar, gruff vocal styles, yet they did some great disco tunes. I just think James never did a great great true disco song (even though I think Body Heat is a great disco tune) because he just ran out of ideas, and he wasn't surrounded by the great interpreters of his ideas, like he was during the early 70s. A guy like Fred Wesley really kept James on the Good Foot. Fred left by the mid 70s, and that's when you hear James hits start to dry up. The disco beat wasn't exactly something foreign to James. If you listen to early works like Talkin Loud & Sayin Nothin or I Got Ants In My Pants, they've got that consistent disco beat going, even if they aren't four on the floor kick drumming grooves. I think the first attempt by James to do four on the floor was via Lyn Collin's Rock Me Again & Again..., but that was a '74 release, after Earl Young and the Philly sound had made that type of drumming the established disco beat sound. Disco Funk |
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#71
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| Did I mention Sexy, Sexy, Sexy before? A pure attempt at Disco by JB that scored on the UK dance floors in 1973!! If anything this was way ahead of its time 'cos it featured sizzling hi hat, something I don't recall hearing from JB before it. If anything, it had DJs wondering what the hell the man was doing, as it didn't have a groove like any previous outing he'd done or anything much else doing the disco rounds at the time (except maybe Tribe's Koke). Get Up Offa That Thing was totally Disco IMO (for 1976, when Disco was still experimental). James Brown was a hopeless self publicist, hence his plethora of monickers. He was just tryin' to earn an honest Bob or two, guv. That's all. Last edited by QUINNY; January 1st, 2007 at 05:14 PM. |
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#72
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No disrespect to Isaac Hayes and his own considerable contributions (or to you either remicks I'm not sure if others would agree in classifying it proto-disco like I would, but the 1970 live version of "Get On Up Or Turnit a Loose" from the Sex Machine LP never ever fails to get me moving.. Last edited by neonlights; January 1st, 2007 at 07:15 PM. |
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#73
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| Have a nice day ! Last edited by Simon White; January 2nd, 2007 at 02:27 AM. |
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#74
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| Here's a new question...which is better, bread or water? |
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#75
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I enjoy Get Up Off That Thing, but I don't think of it as good disco because it's got no bottom. It's ass is flat as a door. If you notice it's all top heavy, so you really only hear hi-hat and snare drum. The kick drum was mixed out, if it was even there at all. But it's a fun track. Disco Funk |
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