Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

These two songs also featured some of the same West Coast/LA session musicians. I can with 90% certainty say that its the same drummer (James Gadson) on both tracks.



Disco Funk

Drummer , shrummer ........ what I want to know is ....is that the same group of talented musicians on both these songs providing those killer disco defining strings !! ........




Now .....on to the issue beiing investigated here ....... that being whether Isaac Hayes is the true original disco man .....
Well I already commented that Barry White would be a better candidate for the title rather than the self-proclaimed James Brown .....so this Rolling Stone comment seems most relevant :

I’m not one to quote the idiot as#ho*&#s from Rolling Stone …… but in this case, I’ll refer to the geniuses ….

Their book : ROLLING STONE ALBUM GUIDE has this to say about Isaac Hayes :


OK ……y'all ready ……

------ "Shades , dashiki , gleaming bald pate: Isaac Hayes cut an imposing figure during his early-70’s heyday . Hard to believe that the hulking auteur behind the ultra funky “THEME FROM SHAFT “ was actually a Barry White prototype, given to steamy bedroom raps and lush orchestration ………"


To be continued ………
….and it gets much better …… 8)

*****

[remicks]

*****

and now to continue ...... from :
ROLLING STONE ALBUM GUIDE



----- " However Hayes shouldn't be written off as a period oddity . His rambling soundtracks and full-blown cover versions had a big effect on soul music ... broadening and softening the instrumental palate ...."

Gee, .... that sounds familiar ..... just like what remicks has been trying to say .....:roll: ;-)


Rolling Stone has still a little more to add to this discussion about Isaac Hayes .... the original disco man .... ... and what they say yet is the absolute capper :-o :p...... le crème de le crème .....



which will be provided here to review .....

........................................ in the next post :-P :razz: :-P !!



*****

[marmite7]

Putting JB or Isaac Hayes aside for one minute, where would you place Sly Stone in the mix?


Dance To The Music has to be the first disco record (ok, with some heavy funk bubbling away), but you cannot deny the overall feel is pure jump-up disco!

Sly gets my vote ;)


PS: Anyone remember a cover version of this tune by French Fries? Played at Northern Soul events and great fun :)

[remicks]

:o--------

Originally Posted by marmite7

Putting JB or Isaac Hayes aside for one minute, where would you place Sly Stone in the mix?
:)

------ :o


Ahemmmm :roll:............er, I'm going thru great pains to solidify my point here Marmite ! ;-)


but ......
if anyone wants to include Sly Stone in the debate ...... well .... Linda Clifford !! ( Shoot Your Best Shot ! ) ;)

*****

[Disco Funk]

In other words, you can't just credit one person with the creation of the genre of music known as 'disco'! :) You got Sly, James, Isaac, plus Motown deserves a lot of credit. If you really want to go for a driving beat, tracks like The Beatles' 'Got To Get You Into My Life' and The Stones' 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' are great discotecque tunes.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

****

OK .... I think we've let this topic ramble sideways about Sly Stone long enough .... ;) ......


Back then to my big point .... still in progress and yet in conclusion !

Here , at last , is what .... the Rolling Stone Album Guide .... says in the end about Isaac Hayes , the original disco man ......;)

....... ready ???? :p


" HAYES PAVED THE WAY FOR DISCO " ....

........................:p:p:p:p:p:p.............. . :roll: 8)8)8)


That's plenty direct and straight forward , ain't it !! ..........:D:D:D8)

an assertion from Rolling Stone no less ........

"Hayes paved the way for disco !!"

well ......watcha know .......:p :roll:







but, of course Rolling Stone can't just leave it at that ....they have to get in one unnecessary editorial dig by adding :

"... whether he deserves credit or blame :evil: is a matter of taste."


(See ... I told you the folks at Rolling Stone :evil: are a bunch of anti-disco assholes !!!! )


*****

[fleetswimmer]

Hey guys!

There's a really cool Isaac Hayes interview. He talks about his personal life as well as his career.

Go to http://video.google.com
Search: InnerVIEWS
Scroll down

Check out all the other interesting videos too! Enjoy!

[remicks]

*****

Hold it ! ....
The defense for Isaac Hayes .....the original disco man .....has not yet rested its case ..... there is much more evidence to be submitted ....not to mention a thorough review of the actual early music of Hayes itself. 8)

So, at this time I’d like to present the liner notes from an Isaac Hayes compilation album that was released in 1980 :

ISAAC HAYES ENTERPRISE
HIS GREATEST HITS
FULL-LENGTH ALBUM VERSIONS

Barry Lezell
Record Business and Sounds
London, England :

---As the 1970s made way for the 1980s, a fresh hustling interpretation of Jessie Stone’s DON’T LET GO soared high into the pop, disco, and soul charts and through the airwaves across America appropriately bringing back into the public consciousness the name of the artist whose music had similarly ushered in the 70s in triumphant fashion----- Isaac Hayes.

A decade on from the dawn of that influential and highly successful period of his work ---and with the whole panorama of subsequent developments in black music helping to obscure our view--- it is easy now to forget just what an innovator and trendsetter Isaac Hayes was during the early 1970s. The tracks on this retrospective album, selected from his recordings made for STAX between 1969 and 1973 should serve as ample reminders :D

To be continued …….



*****

[remicks]

*****

And now continuing our review of Isaac Hayes , the original discoman ....


more excerpts from the album liner notes of :

ISAAC HAYES ENTERPRISE
HIS GREATEST HITS
FULL-LENGTH ALBUM VERSIONS

written by :
Barry Lezell
Record Business and Sounds
London, England :

--- By rights , HOT BUTTERED SOUL (1969) should have been an uncommercial proposition . It featured only four long tracks
( my , how disco like ~ )

the briefest clocking in at 5 minutes, and the longest stretching into a mammoth 18 minutes 40 seconds . In these four cuts though was a whole new synthesis of black music. Hayes didn’t play the game straight ;
( no comment :razz:)

he didn’t follow the conventional musical path along which he had guided many other artists to success and acclaim. Instead he picked on a straightforward song as a jazzman might, treating it not as a finished product in of itself, but as a flexible framework which he could stretch to his own ends. . He stood the familiar arrangements of well-known hits upon their heads
( one of these four songs on HOT BUTTERED SOUL was WALK ON BY.... and let’s see .... didn’t Gloria Gaynor/Meco do the exact same thing with that exact same song when they also stood its arrangement on its head ... by stretching it into disco ? )

adjusting the tempo ,the lengths, even the established rhythm patterns to taste
(and if doing that ain’t the roots of disco craftsmanship …!! ... well .... :p:p)

He brought in symphonic layers of strings hand-in-hand with chunkering wah wah guitar work and a hammering deep-soul bass line…….
( Repeat ….if that aint describing the beginnings of disco …..well.....:razz::razz::razz:!! )

The defense has considered resting right here 8)….. but ...



...........to be continued ……:D


*****

[QUINNY]

Hey Remicks:

You're like a guy who has a pile of tyres and wheels, door panels, windows, body parts, an engine block here, a cylinder head there and says "look I've got a car".

You may have the making of a car, BUT a fully functioning automobile...NO WAY.

Well, it's the same with dear ol' Ike.

Now go look for the zillions of references to James Brown and DANCE music. Bet he'd out-number Ike's by about 100/1.

[Disco Funk]

I have to agree with Quinny. When you think of 70s dance music, and you lay out names like James Brown and Isaac Hayes, I think the Godfather of Soul gets thought of first. Hayes was more of a soul crooner who did some uptempo tracks. I think if he directly inspired anyone, it was Barry White.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Hey Remicks:

You're like a guy who has a pile of tyres and wheels, door panels, windows, body parts, an engine block here, a cylinder head there and says "look I've got a car".

You may have the making of a car, BUT a fully functioning automobile...NO WAY.

Well, it's the same with dear ol' Ike.

Now go look for the zillions of references to James Brown and DANCE music. Bet he'd out-number Ike's by about 100/1.

Not talkiin’ about “dance “ music in general …..talkin’ about disco .... use the word DISCO instead of DANCE … and its bye bye James Brown ...
Please notice that Hot Buttered Soul is not even about dance …. it's about composition ….about the intro of the usage of certain musical elements .... combining particular things .... structuring sounds ….elaborating, stretching … these are revolutionary approaches to pop music .... that would soon define the upcoming sound of disco …..

Now go look for the zillions of references to James Brown and DANCE music. Bet he'd out-number Ike's by about 100/1.

My "original discoman" is Isaac Hayes ….. if you want the nod to go to funkmaester James Brown …..YOU DO the Bloody work !!!:roll::razz:

You may have the making of a car, BUT a fully functioning automobile...NO WAY.

Ya ? ..... ahem: 8)
“Isaac Hayes paved the way for disco “ --Rolling Stone Magazine “ 8) ..... (and when doing your research, you find a disco reference anything like this for James Brown ;)....then we can talk)

I wouldn't advise standing in the middle of the road when I get behind the wheel my friend 8):D

*****

[remicks]

*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Funk
I have to agree with Quinny. When you think of 70s dance music, and you lay out names like James Brown and Isaac Hayes, I think the Godfather of Soul gets thought of first.

Disco Funk

And if more people think of Elvis Presley as having created Rock "N Roll ....does that make that belief correct ????

Quote:
Hayes was more of a soul crooner who did some uptempo tracks. I think if he directly inspired anyone, it was Barry White.

Thanks for agreeing with me on that significant fact !! 8)

Disco Funk : When you think of 70s dance music, and you lay out names like James Brown and Isaac Hayes, I think the Godfather of Soul gets thought of first

Quinny :
Now go look for the zillions of references to James Brown and DANCE music. Bet he'd out-number Ike's by about 100/1.

I don't know why you and Quinny keep going five steps back in this discussion !!!:roll:
I am not talking about dance music .... of which funk is indeed one form of music people dance(d) to ( so is country music ) . And I agree that people danced to James Brown. No argument .

I am talking about disco.... D-I-S-C-O , DISCO !!
"Disco" is what I am trying to trace the roots of !!!! Not dance .....disco

I am not claiming that Isaac Hayes created the best dance music ... or better music to dance to than James Brown. What I am saying is: .... Beginning in 1969 with his HOT BUTTERED SOUL compositions .... Isaac Hayes is twisting , tweaking, maneuvering, enveloping music into a style that is setting up a soon to come musical transition into disco .....

***** __________________
have you heard the remix yet ?

*****

[Disco Funk]

But Disco = Dance Music. It's funky dance music, as opposed to other genres of music that are danceable at higher bpms, like country, or swing, or even polka. It's not music for people to sit down and listen to, even though many songs had pensive lyrics, like a lot of the philly stuff. When disco plays, its music for shaking your booty. What DJ wants to play to a crowd at a club where people are sitting at tables and not dancing? So, disco is dance music, and James Brown is the original disco man for that reason. :)

Disco Funk

[originalbigm]

Originally Posted by remicks

Ya ? ..... ahem: 8)
“Isaac Hayes paved the way for disco “ --Rolling Stone Magazine “ 8) ..... (and when doing your research, you find a disco reference anything like this for James Brown ;)....then we can talk)

I wouldn't advise standing in the middle of the road when I get behind the wheel my friend 8):D

*****

When James Brown entered the scene all that changed. He delivered the drum front and center. Vincent noted that James Brown brought out a more prominent rhythmic foundation for the music and introduced the important concept of 'Hitting on the One'. James Brown focused his entire band including the complex horn, rhythm guitar and keyboard arrangements of his band mate Fred Wesley, Pee Wee Ellis and Nat Jones to 'deliver on the one'. James Brown punctuated his efforts by using his voice with his vintage grunts, groans and screams as a binding force which also drew everything 'on the one'. It seems so simple and commonplace today, but back then it was groundbreaking.

Vincent who eloquently breaks this whole thing down in book 'The History of Funk' went on to add, that prior to James Brown most American music built upon the Blues tradition. After James Brown, American music built upon the tradition of the Funk concept of 'Hitting on the one'. Everything from 'disco' to 'modern rock' to Hip Hop has built upon that concept introduced by James Brown. In later years the West Coast Hip Hoppers would build around the music of Parliament and George Clinton who themselves were directly influenced and inspired by the 'Hit it on the One' concept of James Brown.