Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft

[remicks]

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[remicks]

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[remicks]

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Originally Posted by Disco Funk

I know we're just going back and forth with this topic, but I just want to add that disco IS funk. It's a different type of funk. Even the pop-disco songs have a bit of funkiness to them. Its a faster tempo funk, but its still funk. And James Brown was the funk king. He was also the king of clubs. Ike had some great uptempo soul tunes, and some of it was funky, and probably got play in the clubs, but James Brown's grooves and beat were dancefloor oriented which predated Ike's Shaft. As has been pointed out, strings were one ingredient of disco, but it wasn't an essential ingredient. In other words, there were tons of disco tunes without strings. So if Ikes main contribution was to add strings to uptempo soul songs, it wasn't an essential addition. It was a nice addition, but not essential. Plus I believe Thom Bell and Gamble & Huff were using strings on their uptempo productions in Philly well before Ike did.

Disco Funk

Like all good discussions worth having ..... the topic at hand tends to jump all over the place ...8)

We seem stuck on the issue of strings .... but that's OK for now .... we can get back to appreciating Isaac, the Original Discoman , in due time . :D ...

Quinny first mentioned the association of strings with Isaac’s music , and I agree with that . It was an important element of Isaac's formula .....but it isn't the only thing that he was working around that made his music such a big precursor to disco... Strings were important for the fuller, lusher , silkier, vibe he was creating though . And I'm not claiming Issac invented the usage of them ... he just valued them and intentionally featured their sound ...

Had James Brown similarly explored music using a bigger band sound …. ( already using horns) …. had he brought in some violins, more varied percussion , woodwinds .…. he couldn't have helped but to have taken his dance sound further , and entered into the realm of disco.
While strings are not essential .…. not using them …. really hinders the likelihood of a disco sound ..... As you point out Disco Funk , those taking the soul sound progressively into disco .... like Gamble and Huff, were usually incorporating strings .

On Marky's newest chart, three "strings " tunes fall from the Top Ten to be replaced by three new ones . By definition , the Top 10 are the cream of the disco crop ,
and the creamiest sure seem to benefit from the inclusion of strings ....


.7) CATHEDRALS (CA-THE-DRALS) – D.C. LaRue
strings thru out

8. ) LIPSTICK – Michel Polnareff
not only some wonderful string sounds
.... but this tune is a direct descendent of the works of Isaac Hayes . ( Isaac meets Van McCoy ) Could mix SHAFT right into it .... especially because of the heavy wah wahing
Speaking of which …. we shouldn't so easily dismiss Isaac’s use of wah wah .... he too was using it in his music in '69 --'70 as were other pioneers.
Is there any denying that the most succinct use of that sound was captured by Isaac's SHAFT ..... the quintessential wah wah song

10) * LOVE CHANT – Eli’s Second Coming …don’t know this one :oops: …
strings used on it ?? :-?

Now about disco being funk..... I don't agree Disco Funk . I think funk of that era can be folded into disco most of the time ..... but funk is just a sliver of all that was disco .....


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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

10) * LOVE CHANT – Eli’s Second Coming …don’t know this one :oops: …
strings used on it ?? :-?

You can check out an audio sample from this CD compilation on Amazon:

Disco Party
Amazon-U.S. | Amazon-U.K. | Amazon-Germany | Amazon-France

It's another example of really good philly disco soul. Eli is AKA Bobby Eli. The whole album is really great and worth getting. Love Chant has a really cool bass riff playing throughout, and the ending is a drum breakdown with moans and groans.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

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Thanks for that link DF ! :D
That's one I sure don't remember .... & didn't know until now who Eli was....... doesn't really stand out ( would like to hear that ending) .....probably at the time I just assumed it was a typical Salsoul/ TSOP cut off of one of their LPs .
It's quite an eye opener just how prolific that group of musicians was ... the many projects they worked on and for so many labels ...

AND
It's especially nice of you DF to provide that link, considering , I can now confirm from it that yes ... LOVE CHANT ... was yet another Top 10 disco song that featured strings ....... ( Top 10 remains at 90% with strings )

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That CD has another song I've been wanting to hear , also currently on Marky's May 29, 1976 chart : Foxy's GET OFF YOUR AHH AND DANCE .... despite the title .... a much smoother sound for them ...never would have linked it to them just by hearing it .....with the hustle sound featuring a McCoy-ish flute ...
... oh......... and the lovely , lingering usage of delightful ..... strings ........
8)

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[Disco Funk]

That Disco Party CD is good if you buy it as a reference guide to seeing what good stuff was on TK. Unfortunately, it's mixed (the songs are played in their entirety), and the source is vinyl. But you can find it cheap on Ebay and through Amazon marketplace sellers.

The Eli's Second Coming album is really good as I've said. A few songs feature really good bass riffs. More funky grooves than purely silky disco. There's even a great song called Hopscotch that features bag pipes, of all things! The weakest cut on the album was a cover of Love Won't Let Me Wait, which wasn't inspiring and didn't improve on the Major Harris version. Another cut from the album is also on CD:

TK Disco 45 Collection
Amazon-U.S. | Amazon-U.K. | Amazon-Germany | Amazon-France

This was a Westside release, and I don't know if Edsel has re-released it. By the way, the track 'At The Top of The Stairs' on CD 1 is also a philly disco track.

Disco Funk

[soulsta]

hi I don't get to post often but I love the site. I saw quinny's post about the song there was a time. there was a live version and a studio version. but I got excited at the fact that that song was brought up! that is truly one funk classic. :D

[remicks]

Originally Posted by soulsta

I saw quinny's post about the song there was a time. . but I got excited at the fact that that song was brought up! that is truly one funk classic. :D

This is one sweet piece of music . 8) Rough and jazzy. Would this fall under Northern Soul ???
Got's that "oh , ah " chain gang thing going on.

For that reason I'd like to play with mixing it into Midnight Rhythm's WORKIN SLAVIN
and then I think a more exciting mix would be into CARRIBEAN QUEEN --- Billy Ocean

Nothing But The Funk Vol. 3
http://www.tunes.co.uk/tunes/featured/8654.htm

It truly is a fine piece and

truly one funk classic

as you put it.

yes ............ excellent : FUNK .

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[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by remicks

This is one sweet piece of music . 8) Rough and jazzy. Would this fall under Northern Soul ???
Got's that "oh , ah " chain gang thing going on.

For that reason I'd like to play with mixing it into Midnight Rhythm's WORKIN SLAVIN
and then I think a more exciting mix would be into CARRIBEAN QUEEN --- Billy Ocean

Nothing But The Funk Vol. 3
http://www.tunes.co.uk/tunes/featured/8654.htm

It truly is a fine piece and

as you put it.

yes ............ excellent : FUNK .

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No it ain't Northern Soul. If anything it's more of a pure Boogaloo track. As for mixing into Caribbean Queen...what you hearin' that I ain't hearin'?
Perfect mixes for the tune are the Midnite Movers Follow the Wind or Bohannon's Stop & Go or even Lunar Funk's Mr. Penguin (it's a bit faster though), or any other 4/4, c.120 BPM funky gem from the early '70s. They were proto disco in a big way, as they combined funk with a straight, 120ish BPM, 4/4 beat. Up until then, most funk was slower, far more tricky and often disjointed.

From the top of my head, if I were pushed to pick a more modern track to mix it with I'd probably plump for Nick Straker's Straight Ahead from the '80's or a slowed down Charles Earland - Let The Music Play from the '70s. It's all about that pushing, 4/4, funky chug.

[soulsta]

I am learning a lot as I have never heard of the songs you two have posted in these threads except carribean queen. but yeah if you are thinking of the oos and ahhs of like the ohio players it could be but I couldn't call it. I enjoy so much reading you guys and ladies threads as I am a collector myself and as many lp 's that I have I still don't know anything funkwise yet I know a lot.. but the midnight movers I have one lp by them a song I like to jam is feelin strong. thanks for the info and being able to dialogue with you all.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by soulsta

hi I don't get to post often but I love the site. I saw quinny's post about the song there was a time. there was a live version and a studio version. but I got excited at the fact that that song was brought up! that is truly one funk classic. :D

If you're talking about the James Brown vocal version, there never was a studio version. The 45 was taken from the Apollo performance. There were a couple of instrumental covers he did with the Dee Felice Trio, with a more jazzy feel, and an awesome break in the intro of one version.

Disco Funk

[soulsta]

ohhh okay--maybe that was it. thanks guys yall are soooo cool! Iwill also check out the link. thanks disco funk. I made a mistake on the song feelin strong however on my last post --I thought it was by the midnight movers but it is made by someone else. but I like a couple of tunes by the midnight movers as well. as a matter of fact yesterday morning I pulled out my midnight movers lp to check the song out. it does have a shafty issac hayes sound effects type of feel. thanks quinny.

[remicks]

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I'll just build my case slowly......

Putting some records away ....and here's Isaac's 1980 AND ONCE AGAIN LP .....with the DON'T LET GO meets Rick James sounding song I AIN'T NEVER . Also the pretty-disco styled song LOVE HAS BEEN GOOD TO US ... could mix nicely into GONE GONE GONE .... Johhny Mathis ( I looked for John Davis' name on this. It isn't. The original disco man had no trouble producing/ arranging this AIN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU sounding number ........himself . )



Anyhow's ... on the back of the album's jacket ....Ken Smikle from Record World magazine says .........

It isn't difficult to trace some of the major influences on the music of the seventies ( read disco ! :P ) back to Isaac's HOT BUTTERED SOUL album of 1968 ........


:P :P :P

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[remicks]

Marky's latest compilation has just one turnover in the chart's TOP 10 .....

Out goes one string laden song .... LOVE HANGOVER ....
To be replaced by another ......Tavares' HEAVEN MUST BE MISSING AN ANGEL ..... ...

can you imagine the flowingly angelic imagery of that song sans the heavenly strings .....;)


TOP TEN disco songs with strings remains at 90% ......


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I should mention too that Isaac Hayes continues to be represented on the current chart with :

16) SOUL MAN – Calhoon
(Warner/ Spector 7”/ 12” promo REMIX disco disk 5:48.) (14 points/ C)

------ a song he cowrote with David Porter some ten years earlier .................


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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

Out goes one string laden song .... LOVE HANGOVER ....
To be replaced by another ......Tavares' HEAVEN MUST BE MISSING AN ANGEL ..... ...

These two songs also featured some of the same West Coast/LA session musicians. I can with 90% certainty say that its the same drummer (James Gadson) on both tracks.

Disco Funk