Disco music of the 1970s-1980s for DJs & record collectors
Discussion on Isaac Hayes : Don't Shaft within the Funk, Jazz, Northern Soul, Rare Grooves forums, part of the General Music Discussions at DiscoMusic.com category; Originally Posted by remicks Originally Posted by QUINNY ...... apart from the fact that much of his output in the ...
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#21
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As for the Wah guitar, Ike didn't introduce that to dance music. It was already around. That scratchy wah was already being used on tracks like Breakdown by Rufus Thomas back in 1970. Quote:
So while Barry White and Isaac Hayes both used wah wahs and strings, their songs were not pure disco (in terms of the genre) songs. Quote:
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Shaft was a great soundtrack tune, and less than a minute of it had a dance beat, which could have been more like old motown than true disco. While I've read many books citing Shaft as the first disco tune, I think they're missing the point on what disco music really was all about. The roots of disco are a bit more complex, and while I do agree that elements of what Isaac Hayes and Barry White played influenced later artists, a lot of the birth of disco was based on pure funk which James Brown was the creator of. [quote] Quote: Quote:
I think if anything, Isaac Hayes' main contribution to disco was probably long, musical opus. Before his album, soul albums were mainly made up of short songs (under 5 minutes or so). Ike probably got his cue to make longer songs from the prog-rock/psychedelic artists who were making single songs taking up whole album sides, like Iron Butterfly's In A Gadda Da Vida. I'm glad we've had this long and sometimes 'heated' discussion. Its made me think more about the roots of disco, and I've realized that disco was not just the invention of one guy or one song, but a series of experiments and merging of sounds to create the genre we all know and love. Heck, one could even argue that the Hi Records tunes by Al Green were pre-cursors to disco. I'm so Tired of Being Alone came out before Shaft and has a danceable beat similar to what one would find in later disco tunes. In the end, we'll probably never resolve who was the true 'original disco man'. But from my point of view a lot of the disco rhythm was based on the works of James Brown, and he deserves the title, at least when compared to Isaac Hayes. Disco Funk |
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#22
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Don't bow out yet DF ! The Isaac Hayes DISCO CONNECTION ..... is yet to be fully explored !!! :D I'm not about to let the real original disco man get the SHAFT if I can help it !! :P (I hope by heated ...you don't mean my impassioned positions are being received ( by you or anyone else ) as anything other than as good, hearty, disco sparring 8) ) ***** |
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#23
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And as Disco Funk alluded to much original disco music included non string production and arrangements and comprised mostly funk,soul and r&b. |
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#24
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| I just remembered another James Brown disco tune from the early days (recorded in June of '74) - "Rock Me Again & Again...." which he recorded with Lyn Collins. It's a got a funky groove, and a pulsing disco beat. Disco Funk |
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#25
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IE....when coming home from a night in a disco back then .... one thing that might have stood out in one's half-drunken brain about the night's glorious music was the preponderance of strings in the music throughout the night . Conversely ... when discussing a funk artist .... the funk sound ..... strings are not likely to be mentioned as a major component. Strings were not forbidden ... but were much more likely to be absent in the works of such performers .... particularly the non-disco ones like ............James Brown ...... Also : I looked at Marky's current compilation chart (Chart #83 --- May 22, 1976) ... and nine out of these classic top ten songs ( 90 % !!! )... contain strings .... so to say strings weren't a significant part of disco's sound ... well ...... :P :P :P !! http://www.discomusic.com/forums/vie...1990&start=120 If I'm not mistaken ... only Jesse Green's terrific NICE AND SLOW is without strings .... and even his spry little number , which emphasizes a flute , is more Miami TK or Van McCoy sounding ..... and thus still far and away from being anything James Brown like ... !!!! In conclusion, surely then , the true Original Discoman would've had a strong affiliation with the use of this most significant of disco elements : ..... strings ..... as, of course , was indeed the case with Isaac Hayes who consistently swirled them in and about so seductively within his epic pieces. 8) ***** |
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#26
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| James Brown did use strings, he just didn't use them on the uptempo songs. There was an exception, when he did Pick Up The Pieces One By One with the JBs under the name A.A.B.B. (above average black band), which as you can tell was a parody of the Average White Band. He felt they stole his Hot Pants Road when they recorded Pick Up The Pieces. Pick Up The Pieces One By One was released in 1975 and has strings and even a harp. I think the heavy use of strings for Isaac Hayes and lack of them for James on the uptempo songs had more to do with Isaac being a love song man, and since most of his tracks were love song oriented, he felt comfortable using them even on the uptempo stuff. James Brown was more club oriented, and while he did do the occasional slow song with strings, he preferred not to use them on his funky breakdown tracks. There was an uptempo track which he used strings on, called 'World' from 1969, but it was more soul than funk. Disco Funk |
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#27
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The point here continues to be ....... who was it that was most experimenting with their music in a way that would ultimately lead to disco. Isaac Hayes' use of lush strings is significant .... By doing so , as well as implementing other lavish elements of orchestration .... he was directing music toward a sound more identifiable as disco. His musical ingredients were strongly emphasizing those that would soon become the bedrock of disco. James Brown didn't toy with strings in a big way ... This , in part , contributed to his music's adherence to a more established funk sound . If music solely followed James Brown's lead .... dance music would have remained in a rut...... funk, funk, funk, and more funk . It took the musical elements such that Isaac Hayes was exploring to transform dance grooves into disco. Quote:
and it was Isaac's comfort with doing this ... placing love song elements into uptempo grooves ... (among other things )....that resulted in his guiding music toward the disco sound. I think we're making some progress here ! :D ***** |
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#28
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| And who had more tracks danced to by more people all over the world, than any other single artist in the proto disco period.........James Brown. Hence his claim to be the Original Disco Man. We could go on like this for eons....I for one am getting rather bored by this now!!! |
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#29
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Yes James Brown was hot stuff right thru the early seventies , and if you limit dance music of that era to funk only ... he ruled . But even he became staler than left over Rainbow bread .... once dance music moved on and started sounding more like Isaac Hayes ..... and that's when disco took over . I'll repeat this because I think the point is a good one : Quote:
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#30
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| I know we're just going back and forth with this topic, but I just want to add that disco IS funk. It's a different type of funk. Even the pop-disco songs have a bit of funkiness to them. Its a faster tempo funk, but its still funk. And James Brown was the funk king. He was also the king of clubs. Ike had some great uptempo soul tunes, and some of it was funky, and probably got play in the clubs, but James Brown's grooves and beat were dancefloor oriented which predated Ike's Shaft. As has been pointed out, strings were one ingredient of disco, but it wasn't an essential ingredient. In other words, there were tons of disco tunes without strings. So if Ikes main contribution was to add strings to uptempo soul songs, it wasn't an essential addition. It was a nice addition, but not essential. Plus I believe Thom Bell and Gamble & Huff were using strings on their uptempo productions in Philly well before Ike did. Disco Funk |
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