Why Is Eurodisco Hated?

[JussiK]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Where next, in the rush by future generations to uncover even more undiscovered gems. Are we going to see even smaller sub genres in say 10 or 20 years time? One has to ask why have these very distinct, very rigid definitions sprung up and when? They certainly didn't exist to any degree back in the day. .

Very interesting points there Quinny. Rigid definitions have always been elemental in pop culture fandom though, in every arena as it's the diehard obsessed fan who defines each genre.

There'll always be unpredictable movements. Who in their wildest expectations could have expected something like the lounge phenomenon to actually spread like it did during the mid 90's, that people would be cha-chaing and stepping to faux bossas in nightclubs? The thing was separated into distinctly different American and European subgenres too, with the US fans going . for the smootchy Dean Martin & Les Baxter type of 50's and 60's cocktail sound while the euros jammed to percussive early 70's grooves from the likes of Roy Budd. I think it's just these subgenres that make everything vital and great, with heated arguments, cultural differences and controversy. That goes with dance music too - witness rap fans dissing househeads dissing those dancing around their handbags and vice versa etc. During the 70's a lot of clubs already had strict music policies, mirroring the fan's need to hear exactly what he wanted and nothing else. Of course, many great clubs did the opposite and mixed in all kinds of groovy things. When done well this type of programming can be wonderful as well, as anyone who's been to Les Bains Douches in Paris will testify.

[euroflash]

Rigid definitions have always been elemental in pop culture fandom though, in every arena as it's the diehard obsessed fan who defines each genre.

Jussik,

I have been long convinced that those rigid definitions came to life from collectors, rather than fans. I think it helped to simplify the daunting task going through those endless sale lists where EVERYTHING is bundled together. Many collectors are very specific and music niche oriented.

U.K. and U.S.A. did very lousy in this genre (including or excluding the subgenres) in the 80's, hence the common indifference to the various peculiarities and permutations of Euro Disco. This music was treated like trees or general lumber: like them, or I don't like them. And what difference does it make if it was a birch tree, douglas fir, mahogany or oak.

Another and new to me is Sabadel sound (Spanish Disco from the 80's). I Just learned it myself and these are some examples of it - David Lyme, Moreno, Closed, Fresh, Nancy Venables, Pat & Bell, Norman, Ivan...

Thanks for readin'

[JussiK]

Diehard fans often become collectors if they are obsessed but just as often remain simply heavy users. Both Dominic Stridenti and Laurence Gossberg state in their essential studies on popular culture (Stridenti at least should be still in print on Routledge) that the fan is the motor that keeps an actual genre alive thru affect, regardless of industries. Each genre does indeed seem to contain curiously named and controversial subcultures - techno went thru periods when there was a Kabba scene happening and purists argued whether this metallic, white industrial noise phenomenon should even be called music to begin with, etc. Without any sort of discourse a culture is dead, and happily, dance culture is very much alive, much more vibrant, progressive and controversial than rock which has remained all but completely static for decades.

[QUINNY]

Jussik: You're obviously way more of a style guru than me. Fashionistas may have been grooving to the stuff you've written about, but not yer average Joe Bloggs, so I still maintain that 'specialist' Discos were not the norm in the '70s and that goes too for the dividing of records into multiple sub genres. We were much too naive for that, whereas now it is mainstream ideaology.
Sure there were the odd Reggae clubs in the UK and doubtless there were the odd Funk only clubs, there was Northern Soul, but these hardly made much of a dent in the overall fabric of club life. They were largely incredibly underground. We would have played the odd Reggae/Ska record, the odd Northern Soul record and quite a bit of Funk, cos that was one of the two main dance styles, but Bossa Novas, Cha Chas and the like? In the early sixties for sure, but the seventies and beyond? Only for the darlings and fashion victims, surely? What's the saying, 'you can fool some of the people all of the time........'. There's always going to be some sort of a market for any type of music. Someone will convince themselves that they're hipper than the rest by creating their own little, highly developed scene and others will follow.
I must admit that I was amazed to see so many Reggae fans turn up for, what was to me at the time, an unknown act 'Bob Marley and The Wailers' at the club I worked in '73. We never saw those people again and didn't have any idea of how far afield they had come from, to see one of their heroes. It was at least a year or more later that I played anything by Bob Marley in a Disco. Sure, HE went on to be a giant, but all the other artists on the records they gave me to play?
I guess I've never felt the need to pigeon hole my tastes as much as some folk. Perhaps the sub genres are for no brainers too or perhaps it's just another attempt to reconcile 'where one belongs'.

[JussiK]

You're right on both counts I think - the no-brainers so much hope to belong and be accepted and so they attend the nights they read about in the trendy rags. Those who do belong do what they want and the sheep will follow. Still, someone has to lead, otherwise nothing develops. We have to have ones who dictate fashions and set things in motion. Everything fresh and progressive is always born in the streets and in the more innovative design offices, artists studios, media labs etc.

The cha-chas and bossas were not spinned during the 70's but were played during the early to mid 90's in quite a number of London and other clubs in the UK and elsewhere as well, in joints such as Madame Jo-Jo's that hostessed the still active Club Montepulciano. The Wag had nights like The Blow-Up with soundtracks, moog tunes and Motown. The Scala still has the weekly Popstartz or whatever the thing is called, with one room dedicated to Motown, funk, bossa, lounge, disco etc. The lounge craze was quite a big one with cd compliations popping out from Japan to Italy. The best were the Ultralounge series 1-13 from USA, the still happening Italian ones and the Karmisnsky Brothers realeses from the UK - check out both the In Flight cds and the best of the whole lot, Espresso Espresso. The packaging alone is worth the price.

Again I agree that most clubs definitely were just clubs back in the 70's. Everything from The latest Real Thing hit to Rose Royce was welcomed. No dresscode, just jeans and pullovers and sensible shoes. There were, though, definite trensetters, famed establishments with set music policies. The Embassy in London followed the then hot New York playlists with fast eurodisco and gay stuff, even though the clientele was very mixed. Blues And Soul magazine held a national poll in 1977 and El Coco came 1st with Cocomotion as the most requested track of the moment in England. Most of the readers were not deejays but just punters into the music in a BIG way. There was also a lot of heated discussion about the disco question - was it a threat to soul music as it was understood by the majority of the readership. Still, as Cocomotion and Accidental Lover by Love&Kisses which came close proved, eurodisco/ish non-soulful stuff was widely accepted. Just like the slightly and healthily elitist clubbers today might even dance to Cube despite its appearance on sales charts and the gained mass acceptance. Well, I better stop pontificating right now before this turns into a essay:-)

[QUINNY]

Jussik: Always interested to hear what you have to say. The Embassy was a definite tryout at Americanism in the UK, but I guess was just another attempt at being something that little bit different. It tried to be an English Studio 54 and succeeded for a short while. The hype at the time was amazing. Is that being fashionable, commercial advantage being sought or both?
They were known at the time for following a music policy that was pure unadulterated Disco, which quite frankly wasn't adopted by the rest of us to anything like the same degree. Some of us actually reckoned the place was pretty uncool. Strange really, by adopting an American approach to music policy, in our minds they ended up being a second rate copyist in effect, 'cos that just wasn't the English way. The great places had DJs who did their own thing. I guess those jocks did create fashions to some extent.
Yes, there will always be those who lead fashion and those who will follow. I just worry that many fashion trends are started by morons or by those who assume different automatically means better. Too many of today's fashion gurus are just people who are great self publicists. It is rather artificial at the best of times and driven more by commercial greed/necessity than any other motive. "Now, how can we make a few more bucks? I know let's invent a new craze"....... I'm a cynical so in so.
Lounge music (thankfully) largely passed me by. About as insipid as Cocktail Jazz from what I heard.
Ah well, whatever turns people on, I guess.

[JussiK]

Yep - that basically was/is England. Continental Europe was/is arguably more fashion-conscious with more labelfixated crowds. If those Dries van Nooten shirt and pants have such fabulous detailings and the music they are worn to dance to better match them perfectly. Alors, eurodisco.

[wow27]

On why is eurodisco is hated?
I personally love eurodisco and the cheesier the better! :lol:

[Sierra-Leone]

Well...
This 100-list of "Euro"-artists is NOT representive! I do confirm, that there are mostly ITALO artists in that list, besides that all of them are from 80-s. 80's disco is real artifact! There was no really disco-movement in 80's, there was new wave and so on. Have we forgotten this? That italo stuff is equal to the stuff of today - just faked disco.
If any of you want to know, what was in 70's popular in Europe, and what was NOT popular, but was and IS great, see this list below, I tried to remind all the important artists. Yes, some artists were very popular, but for my taste it was real shit and mostly not disco at all (like Luv' for instance). Remember this list for the future searching. Ok. Here we go:

Chilly
Cherry Laine
Gilla
Dee D. Jackson
Belle Epoque
Boney M
Eruption
Claudja Barry
Giorgio Moroder (sure:) )
Munich Machine
Cerrone
Alec R. Costandinos
Space
Ganymed
5000 volts
Silver convention
Penny McLean
A la carte
Aneka
Doris D. and the pins
La bionda
D.D. Sound
Disco Circus (Martin circus)
Dschinghis Khan (Genghis Khan is the same:) )
Goombay Dance Band
Saragossa Band
John Paul Young
Judy Cheeks
Lipstique
Luisa Fernandez
Plastic Bertrand
Sheila B. Devotion
Snoopy
Spargo
Veronica Unlimited
Arabesque
Love de luxe
AMANDA LEAR (great!)
Kelly Marie
Baccara
Neoton Family (Hungary)
Ottawan
Cashmere
Fantastique
Hot R.S.
El Coco
Emly Star
Heatwave
Patrick Cowley (yes! it's euro, though he's from America! )
Mocca
Santa Esmeralda
Michael Zager Band
Peter Jacques Band
Voyage
Patrick Fernandez
Sarah Brightman and Starship troopers
Trans Volta

These are the favorites of my 70's euro-disco collection. Without early 80's and all non-european disco stuff.

[JussiK]

Originally Posted by Sierra-Leone

Well...
Remember this list for the future searching. Ok. Here we go:
..El Coco...
.

Weren't the El Cocos actually purely American productions ? The Rinder&Lewis sound was more geared towards jazzy funk on many El Coco albums -there sure was the basic snare drum on evidence on hit tracks like Cocomotion, but that alone plus strings do not turn an American record from L.A. into Euro product.

There were several producer/writer teams who pumped out euro gems all during the latter half of the 70's and well into the next decade. The Dutch duo Jaanschen&Jaanschens were behind quite a number of paneuropean sales chart entries, including Dingo, Luv and Veronica Unlimited plus countless one hit wonders, all displaying a jolly beerhall-type singalong flavour. Think Heidi dollied up for a night out in Amsterdam, just back from Costa Brava and still reeling from too much Sangria. Another name to watch was Jean Luc Drion. He produced acts such as The Disco Bouzouki Band and The Chocolats, a best selling Benelux/Brazilian act very popular in France. The Drion records presented high production values and good studio work as is apparent on such Chocolat's albums as Les Fabuleux Chocolat's - tight strings arrangements, galloping congas almost en par with Larry Washington and those delicious girl vocals, of course. Jean Luc had his own name project too, Drion, and a hitette with "Discoaction". - Anthony Monn, the producer of the classic Amanda Lear records and man behind The Saragossa Band's popular hit medley albums also dabbled with stuff like Magnifique - this studio project had an USA disco chart hit with "Magnifique". - Tony Rallo is yet another name to look out for, besides his well-loved name project he is known for many amazing eurodisco albums such as The Evidence by Evidence or as well as 7-inchers like "Harem" by Les Allumettes or many scintillating Dalida tracks. From France, add the fab African Magic Combo, they had a couple of good titles like "Man Was Born In Africa" and "Magic Combo". Weyman Corporation had a smash with "Le Chat (La Chatte a la Voisine)" which was covered by The Chocolat's in their Super Disco Medley. From Italy, dig out the 1977 Adriano Celentano disco album "Tecadisk" for "When Love...", a gorgeous romantic 7 minute capolavoro that reminds one of lush US tracks like "Begin The Beguine". And do not forget Banzaii featuring Les Glodettes, or El Bimbo, either!

[QUINNY]

Did I read somewhere once that HOT R.S. were South African? Can anyone confirm or otherwise?

[Sierra-Leone]

Actually I feel nearly the same. I heard once something somewhere. But they played pure euro-style no matter where were they from, didn't they? It would be interesting by the way, to find out something about south african style:)

[react010]

Hot R.S. were from South Africa...
Thers is a link on the web "South Africa's Rock Legends" which has a page on Hot R.S.:
http://www.new.co.za/~currin/hotrs_index.html

[laser_warrior]

its very surprising people to hate euro disco who know nothing about it. normally, you should have no idea and say you neither like nor hate it. but if you especially have the need to cry out that u hate, u have a problem with that music. u shouldnt hate something u dont know. euro disco is a cool sound and cool people will like it. i know so many other styles but dont hate. why hate? hate is a psychological problem and reasons that cause you hate must be carefully investigated.

[tony98]

A short answer is that in the main euro disco lacks soul. Bionic Boogie had some of the best session singers around on them luther, gordon gordy etc. In fact Luther Vandross had two albums on Cottilion before change.