A difficult choice: Diana Ross or Florence Ballard

[forumette]

I only came to know about this story today, stumbled upon a Supremes song and then kept on surfing. Their music is great! I was sad to learn about what happened to Florence. There is no way of knowing what was behind Ross's selection, but I think it's a fair guess to say it might have been a biased decision considering that Ross and Berry soon started a 5 year relationship that resulted in a child. Had things been done a little differently, I think it could have been possible to come up with a successful formula that included all 3 girls. I don't blame Ross for following her ambition (she might have not been calculating or aware that she is selected for other reasons than her talent).. I can imagine a scenario in which one thing leads to the next, but I do feel there is a character gap when it comes to the later years when Florence was in a dire situation and her old friend didn't reach out to help.

[PierreConstantin]

Originally Posted by Mario

From what I've gathered, when the Supremes were first formed, there was no lead singer.

Barry Gordy decided to "package" Diana as the upfront lead because of the three ladies, Diana sounded the most "white."

P. S. Mary Wilson could/can carry a tune or two quite well...Mary demonstrates her vocal abilities best as she leads on a cover version of Martha Reeves and the Vandella's "Come and Get These Memories." Take Care....Mario 8)

At the very very beginning, when the girls were only amateurs, there was no lead singer. But when they signed, the lead singer was Ross. Very few songs even from 1960 to 1963 are with Wilson or Ballard lead. On the first album we hear essentially Ross: the other girls are generally in the background -and that includes the fourth one, Barbara Marin, singing on eight tunes. If I remember well, the only song sung by Ballard is «Buttered popcorn» and the only one by Wilson is «Baby Don't Go» on this album. The Supremes were always Ross singing with two background vocalists. Gordy recognises that from the beginning even if the two other girls could sing in a very moving way: Ballard's «Goin' out of my head» cover from 1968 is one of the best interpetations of this song and the Wilson/Kendricks duet of «Can't Take My Eyes Off You» is a gem.

Diana Ross sounds white? I've said it before but I really can't understand what it means. And everytime I read a sentence like that, it's impossible to see it as a quality -most people say that to degrade the person, accusing her of being fake. Black = authentic and white = fake ? That's ludicrous. Ross has a clear and recognisable voice, that is her #1 quality; the other two girls could've been taken easily for other singers with similar vocal qualities (The Vandellas and many other groups at the time). They weren't instantly recognisable as Ross was.

Mary Wilson has a very warm timbre but she has difficulties to carry a melody and most of all, she can't hold her breath right. Check out «Can't Take My Eyes Off You»: the fact that it became a duet is because Wilson's flaws are too apparent in the solo version. And the breath problem is a big one: see «Red Hot» from her solo album (1979). Sometimes, she can manage a nice effect (when she sings the word «God» on «And I thank God I'm alive» in «Can't Take My Eyes Off You») but the problem is still there. If it wasn't the case why Gordy didn't let her sing lead? Why did he keep on looking for new lead singers after 1970? He always knew who people where talented and who weren't. Sadly, Wilson is not a very good singer -and I say that after hearing almost all her solo records I collected with the years.

Another thing: Gordy and Ross had an affair way AFTER he signed her. Gordy hired a singer, he modeled her, was fascinated by her and then had an affair with her, basically with the image he created, the woman loved by crowds who could sell millions of records, the post-1964 hit singer. Ross career has nothing to do with the casting couch: he wasn't attracted by the 16 year old girl he signed. This affair seems to have begun circa 1967 (not a good period for the Supremes by the way) and ther girl was born in 1971. Ross wasn't Chris Clark. In my opinion, blaming Ross for the affair is a very mysoginous way to see how things happen. Could she say no?

It's very hard to see what happened really because actually we only know Wilson's side of the story. Ross doesn't say anything about that years, neither Gordy. The fact that Wilson is completely trapped in her labyrinth is not a reason for us to repeat what she says (and history has proved that she can often be wrong: Madonna's «Holiday» wasn't a song originally meant for Wilson; the Supremes didn't record all the unreleased songs she lists at the end of her book -the real list is on the compilation «Lost And Found»-; and above all she hates Ross and seldom uses Ballard as an anti-Ross weapon). That makes me truly sad because I used to love ALL the Supremes.

Myths are not truth... And back to disco music: the Mary Wilson solo album is formulaic but the single «Red Hot» is quite enjoyable, both versions (the 6:00 lp version and the 12" 7:20 remix).

[Westwood]

It all sounds like it can be true, but then I can say what Stephen said about Donna Summer. Were you there to know all the things that you are saying? That the affair didn't start, that it was Berry who made the moves first, that the list in Mary's book is wrong, that the Lost & Found is, etc, or are you just relying on what has been made known for example on a Motown collection like L&F rather than the book of a member?
I have seen a Mary Wilson interview on a talk show and yes she didn't make much sense and seemed to contradict herlself, but it does not automatically mean that she's lying or wrong about everything she says...
Why should we belive your word over Marys? Please explain?

[PierreConstantin]

Like everybody, I began listening to the music and reading the informations on the sleeves. I used to participate to a Motown Board on the net (with people like Andy Skurow for instance). «The Soulful Divas» by David Nathan is a good well-documented reading -Nathan doesn't trash people. I don't like books full of gossips (Wilson's books, Taraborelli books), they are destructive.

Mary Wilson singing [off-key ] (1992):
YouTube - Mary Wilson - Walk The Line (LIVE!)

A production by Ian Levine (but her voice was completely synth re-worked):
YouTube - Mary Wilson - Don't Get Mad, Get Even

MW now:
YouTube - Mary Wilson Performing "Someday We Will Be Together"

What is really sad is that MW never got over Ross' departure from the Supremes. And since then she's mean and bitter anytime she can talk about it (and the fact that no one seems to care about her solo career makes it worse).

Mary Wilson (singer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Westwood]

Ok but it still doesn't mean that just cause she's bitter and apparently hates Diana she's lying.
I was on the Board too back then, and while Harry and Andrew confirmed some rumours etc on unreleased tracks, I don't recall them ever confirming a list etc etc, and in fact, the vault can still hold many unreleased tracks, in whatever stage they were left.