A difficult choice: Diana Ross or Florence Ballard

[markydefad]

Oh puh-leeeze................MISS ROSS had STAR QUALITY!!! SHE WAS COMMERCIAL & GLAMOROUS & SEXY & COOED SWEET 'OOOHS' AND THE PUBLIC ATE IT UP!!!

Mary & Flo were backup singers at best. YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FACTS!!! How many hit singles did Flo or Mary have on their own??? That would be ZERO-ZIP-ZILCH- NADA -NONE.....

[remicks]

*****




OH MARKY......

FIVE Number Ones in a row right off the bat
12 Number Ones total
Six more TOP 10s
Number Three Recording Act of the entire sixties decade ( behind only Elvis and The Beatles)
All time Most #1 Records behind only (see above)


.......................... don't prove nothin! !!!


*****

[markydefad]

If I understand your point remicks....

I said how many hit singles did Florence Ballard or Mary Wilson have as SOLO RECORDING ARTISTS--NOT AS "Supremes" SINGING "OOOOHS" behind Miss Ross's Lead vocal???

Is That Your Point?

[remicks]

Originally Posted by markydefad

??

Marky you made your point most endearingly clear ....that's what my s were about.


It's my point that wasn't well made it seems, which was to further address the question of Diana or Florence and why it really isn't even questionable .....

Berry Gordy made lots of mistakes ....and some of them even concern The Supremes.... but putting Diana Ross up front wasn't one of them.

If destiny is a true concept .... Diana Ross is evidence of it ......


*****

[deltablues2]

There's no point debating who had or did not have solo hits. Mary & Florence were not promoted the way that Diana was, therefore you cannot compare their potential sales. If Motown had not put Diana outfront because of her looks and commercial voice then we might never have heard of her or any of the Supremes.

If you're only looking for charisma then Diana is your likely winner. But if you're at all concerned about talent then Flo was the superior singer - by far. Hits have little to do with talent.

[trish]

Originally Posted by markydefad

If I understand your point remicks....

I said how many hit singles did Florence Ballard or Mary Wilson have as SOLO RECORDING ARTISTS--NOT AS "Supremes" SINGING "OOOOHS" behind Miss Ross's Lead vocal???

Is That Your Point?

They fell by the wayside by that time. Florence began drinking and never picked up her career again. Not only that she didn't have the backing behind her. It was not easy during the 60's or 70's for black singers to make it on their own. As a matter of fact it was almost unheard of. Detroit had Motown, Philly had the Sound of Philly to handle their own sound.
There were very few black artist during that time who even got the recognition they deserved without someone like a Berry Gordy behind them. Had he not pushed Diana the way he did, and invested the kind of time and money that he did she would have gone nowhere fast as well.

Diana's stage presence was good. Her gestures, pouty mouth, playful eyes. Her clothes were fantastic. It worked with certain people. She crossed over and that is what got her to the top. Berry put the money out there to ensure she would do so. That was Berry's plan for her from the beginning. It wasn't all about her. It was about lining his pockets as well. After all, we're still talking about a business. She is not and never has been a grand singer. Florence just happen to be one of the ones stepped on in order for Diana to get to the top. Mary kept her mouth shut like a good little girl. Her true feelings didn't come out until they tried to put together a tour for Diana Ross and the Supremes. Mary absolutely refused to go out on the road with her unless she was paid the same salary. The tour never happened.

[normvork]

Originally Posted by Mario

You can hear Florence Ballard on lead in the Supremes hit: Buttered Popcorn... And, wow, she really did have a set of pipes! )

I have been collecting Supremes records since 1972 (dating back to 1964) and have not heard of this song. Where do you find it? Is there any other recording on which to base all the worshipful praise of Flo?

[normvork]

Originally Posted by eddie

I don't think the Supremes were produced right. I think they should have changed up lead singers within the song like Kendricks and Ruffin on "You're my everything."

Ever since the Andrews Sisters it has been a hallmark of successful groups to use the same lead singer to develop an exact sound which will become the "brand." People who hear a new song on the radio will immediately recognize who the artist is and go out looking at the local record store for "that new Supremes record I heard today on the radio but I don't remember the name of the song."
At least it worked that way back then.
Making those connections of vocals to artist made all the difference in finding the record you wanted to buy. I still remember people coming to the record store where I worked mistakenly asking for Diana Ross' song Up in a Puff of Smoke, (Polly Brown stole Diana's voice) and later people thinking "Gloria" was by Donna Summer until Laura Branigan got established.

[trish]

Originally Posted by normvork

Ever since the Andrews Sisters it has been a hallmark of successful groups to use the same lead singer to develop an exact sound which will become the "brand." People who hear a new song on the radio will immediately recognize who the artist is and go out looking at the local record store for "that new Supremes record I heard today on the radio but I don't remember the name of the song."
At least it worked that way back then.
Making those connections of vocals to artist made all the difference in finding the record you wanted to buy. I still remember people coming to the record store where I worked mistakenly asking for Diana Ross' song Up in a Puff of Smoke, (Polly Brown stole Diana's voice) and later people thinking "Gloria" was by Donna Summer until Laura Branigan got established.

That may be true, but coming from the same era and same company, it wasn't true with the Temptations. Everyone who sings well is not necessarily a lead singer. Motown recognized that. For instance Mary Wilson of the Supremes didn't have the voice of a lead singer. That applies to many groups. The Temptations had a number of leads and utilized them all. David, Eddie, Paul and Melvin of the original group all sung lead and songs were written for each of them that became hits. Whenever you bought an album (and I bought them all) you could be sure you would hear all voices.

Here's an article

Florence Ballard Fan Club

[normvork]

Originally Posted by trish

That may be true, but coming from the same era and same company, it wasn't true with the Temptations. Everyone who sings well is not necessarily a lead singer. Motown recognized that. For instance Mary Wilson of the Supremes didn't have the voice of a lead singer. That applies to many groups. The Temptations had a number of leads and utilized them all. David, Eddie, Paul and Melvin of the original group all sung lead and songs were written for each of them that became hits. Whenever you bought an album (and I bought them all) you could be sure you would hear all voices.

Here's an article

Florence Ballard Fan Club

I have to concede there are important exceptions to the strategy, also noting the Beatles and Fleetwood Mac. Regarding the Temptations, however, I can't say they had a distinctive sound that set them apart from a dozen other male groups of their time. I couldn't hear an unknown song by one of those groups and identify if it was the Temps or Four Tops or someone else. If Smokey Robinson was singing, I knew who it was. If Diana Ross sang it, I could figure it out...until Polly Brown came along.

[trish]

Originally Posted by normvork

I have to concede there are important exceptions to the strategy, also noting the Beatles and Fleetwood Mac. Regarding the Temptations, however, I can't say they had a distinctive sound that set them apart from a dozen other male groups of their time. I couldn't hear an unknown song by one of those groups and identify if it was the Temps or Four Tops or someone else. If Smokey Robinson was singing, I knew who it was. If Diana Ross sang it, I could figure it out...until Polly Brown came along.

I'm surprised to hear that. I could hear unknown songs by the Original Temptations, Four Tops, The Miracles, almost all of the Motown groups and identify who was singing almost immediately. I think it depends maybe on who you are in tune with.

With the Beatles, if it wasn't John Lennon leading, I wasn't always sure. Many times it has to do not so much with the voice as with the sound, for instance Abba. You just always knew it was them singing.

One of the most distinctive voices I've ever heard was Karen Carpenter's.

[markydefad]

Originally Posted by trish

One of the most distinctive voices I've ever heard was Karen Carpenter's.

Funny you mention the wonderful deep tones of Karen Carpenter---the first time I heard her on radio--- singing a cover of The Beatles' "Ticket To Ride"....I thought she was CHER!!!!

[markydefad]

If you go back and look at any TV footage of first incarnation of THE SUPREMES (Diana, Mary & Flo) performing-- to me, Flo always seemed kinda uncomfortable in the spotlight. Miss Ross CRAVED THE CAMERA (buggin' out her eyes and oddly grinning while singing very UNHAPPY lyrics--she was overeager to please and grab the spotlight)--while Flo seemed competently rehearsed yet vaguely stiff & awkward in the background. You can't teach someone to be a STAR--they command the camera & our attention--or they don't. That's my opinion.

[SandraDee]

Yes, Ms.Ross definitely has star quality by the bucket load, no question. Not many artists/performers have it, nowadays less than ever.

[normvork]

Originally Posted by trish

That may be true, but coming from the same era and same company, it wasn't true with the Temptations. Everyone who sings well is not necessarily a lead singer. Motown recognized that. For instance Mary Wilson of the Supremes didn't have the voice of a lead singer. That applies to many groups. The Temptations had a number of leads and utilized them all. David, Eddie, Paul and Melvin of the original group all sung lead and songs were written for each of them that became hits. Whenever you bought an album (and I bought them all) you could be sure you would hear all voices.

Here's an article

Florence Ballard Fan Club

Okay, so I read about Florence. Sort of a tragic figure great for gay worship like Evita or Judy Garland or Marilyn Monroe. Was she really good?
I liked Mary Wilson's solo album with Red Hot on it. has anyone heard Flo's solo singles? Who was Dream Girls based on? Is the Jennifer Hudson part based on Mary or Flo?
Is it true Flo was found dead from alcohol poisoning with an unopened welfare check in the mailbox? I heard that a long time ago.