First disco song ever released

[paul]

Originally Posted by MixMasterMax

"Mixing vs. talking DJs is always a thorny subject"
This statement sort of surprises me. I had to stop and think for a bit and my recollection is that no, the Disco's I went to did not have talking DJ's. I don't recall one. Clever or not a DJ talking would ruin the song, mix and the evening, that was reserved for Radio.

"As to whether or not a Disco is a Disco if the jock didn't mix......that's taking it a bit far."
This was the number one reason why I would attend a Disco. The #1 criteria was that the Jock had to mix and mix good. In fact it was the only reason why I would return to that Disco (OK, maybe the abundance of ladies too). A club could not be considered a Disco if the Jock did not mix.

"I've not heard one perfect mixing tape from BITD, have you?"
I guess you had to be there. Maybe no tapes exist. The truth is that DJ's from back in the day were both fantastic and did make mistakes. I think you may be judging this based on our technology of today and the use of PC's to develop a flawless mix. I have been to club's recently and heard mistakes, so what.

In my humble opinion here are a couple of items I feel must have existed for a "club" to be defined as a "Disco" BITD.
* Continuous mixing (all night long)
* No DJ talking (that was reserved for radio or bad DJ's who had to hide their mixing behind the talking)
* Extensive sound system
* Extensive lighting
* Live acts were announced in advance and were not a regular part of every night.
* Dolly Parton music was not allowed :roll:

[/quote]

MixMasterMax, I agree with you. In fact everyone I hung out with shared this same sentiment. DJs talking over the music was not a good thing. One of the nicer clubs in Boston at the time, Satch's, suffered from the talking DJ syndrome. It was nice because it attracted NBA players and their groupies. The DJ however must have been Satch's friend. By the way the club was named after Satch Sanders, former NBA player. The best club in our opinion at the time was Kix. The DJ didn't generally talk, he let his mixing do that. In fact I got the sense that on Mondays and Wednesdays he would try his mixes out on the audience and what he felt worked would be heard on the weekends. As for sound and lighting, Boston Boston was just head and shoulders above everybody but what Kix had was more than adequate.
Live performances were kept to a minimum. The most memorable for me being as I mentioned before meeting Machine. :D
Oh, what is BITD?

[MixMasterMax]

:lol: :lol: BITD = Back In The Day :lol: :lol:

Let me say that if you heard the DJ start talking, you better start looking for the nearest exit cause there was some kind of emergency about to happen. No one paid to hear a Disco DJ talk. That is not to say they did not add to the effect by inserting "heeeey" or "come on" or some other simple words to enhance the feeling.

[discosavvy]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

some of the songs you mentioned were isolated hits thru a span of many years and many were not even popular for long if at all ... but in general they were not big club hits

But that's not always the musicians' fault. The diversity was at least out there. In sound, in tempo, in attitude. The anti-disco argument "all disco sounds the same" is not really based on disco en toto but on what was played on disco radio in early 1979 or in certain types of nightclubs.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

During the pre-’76 era you could still play three and four years old good music and people still responded on the floor, after 77 with few exceptions anything older than three months was history

I recently heard someone else talk about this phenomenon too. That's sad. On the other hand Casey Kasem had his top-100 songs of the disco era broadcast on radio in summer 1979 and it had some tracks from 3 or 4 years earlier...which he duly noted were already oldies or classics in his time. I think he said that about "Don't Leave Me This Way" by Thelma Houston.

Let's talk now about the reverse situation. Why is it that some British DJs in 2001 wouldn't play Sophie Ellis-Bextor's "Murder on the Dancefloor" at their pop disco events even when it was in the top-10 in their country? Because anything newer than 1980/1 is gonna clear the floor? That's what they said! What's with this closed-mindedness? And another issue: where did this notion come from that dancers only dance to songs they already know? Why do they think this way?

Some new disco songs can be mixed into classic disco really easily. Most recently, that new Baccara song "Soy tu Venus" would work in some crowds. But "everyone's" scared to experiment, to probe the unknown, to admit disco isn't dead, to allow disco to be something other than dated nostalgia with afro wigs and platinum shoes. It really scares them. In the USA over the past 10 years anytime a disco track by an artist who was having success with other new non-disco tracks at the time had their disco track get cut short, deliberately. This happened to George Michael, Cher, Jamiroquai, Kylie Minogue, Barry Manilow, and even some of the boy-bands.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

...Meco cuts were considered jokes

But some people here, and some Hi-NRG fans, like Meco's Wizard of Oz album. It's passable IMHO - I don't like his "Star Wars" and other works though. KISS's attempt at disco is OK. Country-disco is a joke but it's still something different. Someone in another forum considered La Bionda to be a joke.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Kelly only hit it with “Zodiacs” (and that got tired fast)

Good point. Well, a lot of that German disco material gets tired fast. "Get Up and Boogie" is boring, for instance. "MacArthur Park" is irritating to me.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Tangerue was to late and hardly played at all

Second half of 1979/first half of 1980 was not "too late".

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Benson only really with “Give me the night”

Awesome track, very jazzy on that guitar playing, one of his finest works. What was that about too late?

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Disco died a quick death

Really? If you mean after February 1981 in the USA, I suppose so. But if you want to claim mid-1979 or 1980, not so. As far as the music, without considering sales figures, I have now located true disco songs released from every year from 1972 to 2004 with the sole exception of 1990.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

I don’t recall Boney’s “Rasputin” played at all in my area

That group was more popular in Europe. And a lot of their catalog is a joke anyway, so I suppose it was better that they were obscure here.

The only Boney M song I heard growing up in the NYC area was their take on "Sunny".

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

as for the rest, me know no.. :lol:

Well there's a lot out there to explore...so keep lookin' :) A lot of those non-hits are really really good. I've heard now about 3,400 disco songs, thousands of funk songs, thousands of soul songs, and lots lots more.

By the way no one answered the initial query of the poster who asked whether anyone has heard the O'Jays song "One Night Affair" (1969) and noticed how very disco sounding part of it is. He found that 30-second soundclip from my website. I would say the O'Jays are big-time disco pioneers, not just because of that but because of "Love Train" (1972) with its proto-hustle beat and Jerry Butler's even more disco take on their "One Night Affair" (1972). Add to that the Intruders' very Love Train-like (same kind of beat, tempo, and instrumentation) song "Win, Place, or Show" (1972) and the O'Jays/Gamble and Huff roots of disco are obvious. The other earliest pioneers I'd say are Isaac Hayes and the Trammps, followed soon after by Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes. I think these facts are indisputable, and anyone who says disco started in 1975/1976 is wrong, if we talk about technical details and not nostalgia or popularity as our criteria.

[markydefad]

I agree with Discosavvy that the roots of disco lie in the late '60s-early 70s productions of Gamble/Huff, Isaac Hayes ("Theme From Shaft"), Norman Whitfield ("Papa Was A Rolling Stone") and that Eddie Kendricks LP "People Hold On".

They paved the way for Barry White.

[Mixmachine]

Oh Quinny, Quinny Quinny…

I’ve read your postings here for years and tried to avoid slamming your views to harshly but you keep trying to dismiss others’ experiences in order to justify why unbeknown to you until now (internet) you missed out so much on what the Disco era had to offer..Admit it and get over it chap :lol:

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Mixing vs. talking DJs is always a thorny subject.
As to whether or not a Disco is a Disco if the jock didn't mix......that's taking it a bit far.

Local Bars with small dance floors were a dime a dozen here in South Florida, they usually feature a House Band (or two) and later top 40 DJ’s (some good ones) with a Radio Jock complex, they talked and yelled before , during and after the song and didn’t know how to mix anything even if their life depended on it, if they even had a mixer, usually the club featured a shitty sound system as the House band was ‘the’ attraction not the Dj or any pre- recorded music, (that’s why he had to try to coach patrons into the small floor) patrons here were not great dancers and the idea of a dedicated dancing club with DJs playing ‘records’ was ridiculous in their view. But, don’t get me wrong, there was a place and a need for this kind of club, as I said before, the real “Disco” experience was not to everyone’s liking, and even I visited and enjoyed this clubs in my searches for good female company and exposure to many outstanding House band that later broke big (Miami Sound Machine, Charanga ’76, Calhoon, Chirino, Jon Secada etc, etc.)
This popular clubs, even with top caliber House bands were not “Discos” as such, and even patrons (I personally turned on a few to real Discos) would later comment on the different ‘Experience’ they had at a real “Disco”.
If in your area you exclusively had this type of Club in the mid 70’s there is nothing wrong with that, and I’m sure all had a great time anyways, but the “Discothèque” and full time mixing DJ concept with no house bands was present here in South Florida and all over the big US cities as far back as ’72, and as we know some claim even earlier than that, I certainly don’t doubt it since many late 60’s and early 70’s R&B music played in clubs way into the mid ‘70’s. Anyone ever danced in a real Disco to “Don’t bring back Memories” by the Four Tops? Later redone by Luis Martinez (Amant)

Originally Posted by QUINNY

If you've never been a talking DJ, then maybe you just don't know how clever a talking jock can be. .

I know Talking Djs are very clever and talented in what they do, and many of them were (are) rich and famous to prove it, but the true "Disco” experience and DJ mixing magic is ruined when you apply a top 40 Radio format to a Disco club environment.

Most top 40 radio talking jocks played what ever the ‘Music Director’ dictated, they picked music based on ‘Surveys’ , backroom deals, demographics, and time of day, many didn’t even know what was playing in clubs in their own neighborhood, and mixing records well and ‘talking’ on the MIC at the same time are not mutually comparable.

It's hardly slamming one record on after another and hey, if a mixing jock doesn't get it right things sound ugly pretty darned quickly. I've not heard one perfect mixing tape from BITD, have you?.

:lol: are you kidding me Quinny, no wonder you have such low opinions of early Disco jocks, First off the Dj mixing style, music and productions were different when compared with later years of course, more ‘Slamming” and ‘Chops” but they were perfect for the day and after all a CONSTANTLY jumping, screaming dancing floor was the objective right? Besides many Jocks (like me) did many complicated mixing even with 7” records, and the use of two copies for “ extending” and effects was in full swing even back in ’73! :lol: Besides since you seem to required perfection you should have learn by now that what’s not perfect to yours highly trained ears, is out standing and more than excellent to the great majority of us, if absolute perfection (impossible to obtain) was the only pre-requisite, nothing would ever get done! :lol:

Personally, whether it's a talking jock or a mixing jock, they could both bore me if they didn't play the right records..

Maybe you should have come across the big pond and check out what the old rebels were doing in the old colony, I’m sure you’d have been thrilled :lol:

Pre 1974 there were no 'real' mixing DJs as such were there? They might have been segueing and blending, but no-one was actually mixing and certainly not in every single disco/club. Even the veritable Saturday Night Fever has the jock talking (very badly), so I can only imagine that such animals still existed in 1977, even in New York City.

Well, wrong again, I was personally mixing in my bedroom in late ’74 and wish all my 8 track recordings had survived to this digital age, I had two BIC turntables and a Pioneer 8 channel MIC mixing mixer rigged with all kinds of ‘Y’ connectors, phono stage amps and mini amps/converters for queuing with my cheap Radio Shack headphones, later this mixer was Modified and used until 88 in my home rig; and how do you think I learn to do this at my tender young age?. I was coached by other “Home” Djs that got it from real club DJs active at the time, some small clubs then had the same rig with other brands, as Bozak mixers were very expensive then and only a few owner were willing to invest in them since the ‘rig’ was good enough at the time.

Even the veritable Saturday Night Fever has the jock talking (very badly), so I can only imagine that such animals still existed in 1977, even in New York City.

When we first saw this movie we used to laugh at Monty’s mixing skills on the movie, I’m sure many of us DJ beginners mixed like this until we learn to do it right, after all, no one is born a master Dj , but by the release date of this movie , the art of “ mixing” was already a well established skill in all Discos I visited and worked; around ’77 In Hollywood Florida at the “LimeLight” Discotheque where Dj Luis Martinez (Louis Martinee) of Expose fame was resident DJ, already he was using 4 techniques 1200 Turntables in his club rig. His recording studio and email is available online, drop him a letter and ask him if you have any doubts.

[Nano]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Nano: I don't think we were aware of any Spanish meaning as the word Disco was, as I'm sure you are aware, an abbreviation of the French word discotheque.
So, as a 15 year old kid, were you confused as to what had been abbreviated back in 1980?

I remember when the term to call the clubs changed (late 70s) down here. Earlier we called them "boites" (another French term); I have two older brothers (one of them 10 years older) who used that word. Then they became "discotecas" (Spanish translation for "discotheques") when I started to go. But you're right, certainly the meaning of "disco" in Spanish was somewhat leading to "confusion", as to think a "discoteca" was a club where they only played "discos" (records). But this is also true, so it ended being OK I guess :)

Mixmachine: of course I started to go to clubs in 1980 (attended many private parties earlier), but to me your last post sounds right on the money. DJs didn't talk other than to make interjections or "effects". I remember one DJ having the music stop and grabbing the mike to stop a fighting in the dance floor (of course the party died). It was the exception, not the rule.
I also remember a new disco in my hometown that promoted itself with flyers detailing its advanced sound system, lighting skills, etc. There were many numbers in that flyer and I remember thinking how pompous the text was. Then one of the clubs where I went did a flyer reading: "We don't have the best lights, nor the more watts, nor the best sound... We only have the best music". You can guess where we went :)

Another thing: around that time the big hits only lasted a few weeks because then it came the local release of the record, and by the time it was on local radio it had already "burned" in the clubs. I remember very vividly how we used that term ("burned") for the records that DJs couldn't play anymore because people would go out of the dance floor. "Funkytown" was a case in point: a big hit, but it "burned" very fast and it sounded on the radio much longer than in the clubs.

Please keep posting guys, because beyond the debate itself you are delivering lots of valuable information for the "late arrivers" to the disco scene.

[paul]

As for the original topic, some of us who've been here for quite awhile have gone back and forth on this over the years. Heck, I probably listed songs that I may not list now. It's just too difficult to define a time period, and then you would probably have to list several songs. There were so many great songs in that period and all the way up until oh '81, that picking one would be an almost impossible exercise.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by discosavvy

But that's not always the musicians' fault. The diversity was at least out there. In sound, in tempo, in attitude.

Discosavvy, listening to all this music today is not the same as programming, spinning and receiving dance floor acceptance back then; Lots of good music got lost in the shuffle and now we all wonder how and why this happened, but it did. Remember we are talking “club hits” before ’76 not those great songs buried in an LP we all now agree should have been hits but slipped under the radar.

The anti-disco argument "all disco sounds the same" is not really based on disco en toto but on what was played on disco radio in early 1979 or in certain types of nightclubs.

Clubs that were able to get away with playing music that was not on the mainstream (after ’77) were out there of course, but in general IMO after SNF everything changed and now Radio and the masses were in the driving seat, not club Djs musical taste.

I recently heard someone else talk about this phenomenon too. That's sad. .

And why is that? Do you know that the only way for your average clubber back then to hear and discover this music was to visit this new type of club called “Discothèques” , especially if one enjoyed uninterrupted presentation by a skilled mixing DJ; This early R&B music and the countless hits that originated in foreign countries (Barrabas, Titanic, Bimbo Jet, Chocolats, Osibisa, Black Soul, Dibango, etc) were hardly played at all except for some ‘Urban’ stations in big US cities, and those stations that did play them constantly interrupted the music with ‘taking Djs' announcements and commercials, this is why the music was able to survive for years in clubs, and as a DJ you were able to mix and experiment mixing an old song with a new release, after ’77 all this was history, now only the latest ‘hits’ were acceptable by the new wave of clubbers, not to mention that the difference in production quality made mixing old standards even more challenging.

Some new disco songs can be mixed into classic disco really easily.

well I disagree, unless the 'old' classic production was updated some how, in a Loud night club enviroment the difference in production are enormous, for years I didn't play "Heaven must be missing an angel" Tavares, or "love to love" until they were re-worked in the mid '80's , I remember trying to show the youngsters the original Lyn Collins "think" by mixing with B Blasse(?) sampled "it takes two " and it was a disaster.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Tangerue was to late and hardly played at all

Second half of 1979/first half of 1980 was not "too late".

honestly I had to dig this one out the other day cause I forgot all about it, it turns out that because of ‘markings’ I know I played it, but here in Miami, one of the homes of heavy duty “Hustle” dancers, by late ’79 certainly ’80 this “pretty” music, which I loved mixing and enjoyed very much was played out as far as the clubbers were concerned, times were changing, and copy cats are largely to blame, you may be to young to appreciate this fact but string heavy club music was everywhere for the last three years.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Benson only really with “Give me the night”

Awesome track, very jazzy on that guitar playing, one of his finest works. What was that about too late?]

No, this was right on time :D with what I dubbed the "'Lite" funk period (Shalamar, Whispers, Kool and gang, Gap ,Lakeside, Dazz, etc) :lol:

[originalbigm]

Additional information supporting some of the points put forward

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Disco

[MixMasterMax]

Originally Posted by originalbigm

Additional information supporting some of the points put forward

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Disco

This is a good link and there are many others that all agree Disco as we know it came to be in 1973 or 1974. The influences that led to "Disco" are many and will takes us in many directions which will not serve any purpose since they span many countries, decades and genres. I would be happy to get concesus on the year and not worry about the song at this point. However, it is clear that even at 1973 or 74 those of us on oposite sides of the pond were having a totaly different experience. I feel sorry for galocha
and the original post as his head must be spinning.

[originalbigm]

I'm with you Master max I think the year could be more clearly defined than the song. As we have discussed in the past defining one particular song as the "first" disco song is like trying to find the missing link between ape and man.
I did spend time in England in 1972 and again in 1978 and the disco experience was totally unlike what was happening over here. Talking DJ's were the accepted norm over there where as over here that kind of showmanship was "the kiss of death" for a club. If pressed to pick a time slot I would say latter half of 1973 first half of 1974 as this was the time we began seeing the emergence of Barry White,The Philadelphia Sound and trend into more uptempo music.

[discosavvy]

Originally Posted by discosavvy

Some new disco songs can be mixed into classic disco really easily.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

well I disagree, unless the 'old' classic production was updated some how, in a Loud night club enviroment the difference in production are enormous

No offense but : Have you heard any of the songs I'm talking about?

Case in point is Ultra Nate, who it turned out showed up at the Dance Music Hall of Fame event this month. Her 1998 song "New Kind of Medicine" is indistinguishable from classic disco. It could mix into a classic disco track of a similar tempo, couldn't it? Please hear it FIRST before you say no. By the way I meant disco as in disco, not disco as in dance music or electronica.

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

I dubbed the "'Lite" funk period (Shalamar, Whispers, Kool and gang, Gap ,Lakeside, Dazz, etc)

Yes, I really like the music of that time. My favorites back then were "Make That Move" by Shalamar, "Give Me the Night" by George Benson, "Forget Me Nots" by Patrice Rushen, and "Lady (You Bring Me Up)" by the Commodores.

If there hadn't been an anti-disco backlash here are some songs that could have scored higher on the pop chart:

The Whispers - "I Can Make It Better" (1981) - compare with "And the Beat Goes On" (1979)

The Brothers Johnson - "The Real Thing" (1981) - compare with "Stomp!" (1980)

GQ - "Shake" (1981) - compare with "Disco Nights" (1978)

The Spinners - "Yesterday Once More/Nothing Remains the Same" (1981) - compare with their medleys from 1979 and 1980

I think these four artists were among the hardest hit casualties. Somehow Shalamar, Kool and the Gang, and even K.C. remained popular though.

[QUINNY]

[quote="MixMasterMax"]

Originally Posted by originalbigm

Additional information supporting some of the points put forward

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Disco

This is a good link and there are many others that all agree Disco as we know it came to be in 1973 or 1974. ]


WHAT!!!!!!!! Don't you guys realise that our deliberations are worth 10 times what that link has to say.

One question: How come The Hustle - Van McCoy was actually nothing like what most of us would have called hustle music BITD. Rhythm wise it's what, 115 BPM (slow in comparison to most pure Disco product), no slurping hi hats, no heavy 4/4 beat, flute as lead instrument, more? brass than strings......need I go on? It's more Rumba influenced than late 20th century American.

[DiscoMan]

We've come to know later versions of the Hustle - faster, more spins and turns, fancy arm styling.

Between 1975 and 1978 the Hustle changed a lot - different styles of (Latin, New York, etc.) and over the past 25 years it has changed still more.

[MixMasterMax]

All of the Hustle songs BITED (Back In The Early Days) were of the slower tempo variety. Remember, we were moving into new territory and we were not yet ready for the 126 BPM dancing. As DiscoMan stated the Hustle you are referring to did not come for a couple years and then continued to change. What a magical time it was BITED. The Hustle was a sensual dance and allowed us many reasons to deliver those famous pickup lines. It was much different when the dance craze moved to a more free style or "no touchy feely" variety :cry: .

Anyway, since this is my first real "deliberation" with you guys, I would like to try and corner you and see if we can agree on a year. Once this has been established maybe Bernie can create a section with the songs we nominate of that year..."the year that started it all". BTW, I would think Bernie and NickNack would have had something valuable to say in this thread by now :-? .

If I sort my records by year I see 1974 as the year that first has a large number of the artists we would all come to associate with Disco. 1974 would be my choice although technically, 1973 had some as well.