#1 reason why todays club scene is dead?????

[Studio74]

28 Degrees in November?It´s quite rare.It´s a shame you had to stay closed in some people´s house watching TV.That disco you mention sounds like it might be Kapital or T-Clube.Very snobish people and crappy music.Never went to T-Clube but went one time to Kapital...Made a promise to myself to never go there ever...No doubt the posh places are very boring...If you ever come to Lisbon again go to Lux...you´ll like it.

[Rab]

Although, it's a subject most of us would prefer not to think about. I think the number one reason why todays clubs are no fun (or not the same) is because of HIV. It destroyed the club scene. I think we would have been able to get past the fact that the music was not as good. But from what I experienced, the 1980's was a time when people were not as happy, that "great to be alive" sound in disco was gone, and people were afraid. I can remember so many clubs that were packed, sometimes even during the weekdays that eventually ended up closing due to lack of patrons. The disco during the period from 1977-1980 represented a form of "escape" for a lot of people-- away from the rat race, a place where people could feel energized and just be themselves and not worry about loosing their inhibitions if they had a few drinks.

[vienne]

Wow Rab, I think your absolutely right. HIV was a major factor. I had quite forgotten about this aspect. Yes, many people must have felt like it was a "punishment" or something. Yeah, I remember all the theories, you couldn't even shake hands in case that person had "it".

Then there was the political aspect of it all, those groups that were specifically targeted due to homophobia, racism and moralists. It WAS scarey.

V

[DiscoMan]

I posed this question on a local nightlife BB I'm on. Here is a response from a club owner who closed his place about 4 or 5 months ago:

"Usually they require a large space, lots of staff, and expensive equipment. Hard to make the money back on only 2 or 3 nights a week. Also, true in xyz, who shows up to a dance club before 11:30? At ABCC people would go get drunk at a dive bar and then head over around 12:00 to dance...you know what, I needed those people buying drinks at my club and not just coming to dance.

Club music is a mess today. The Rave scene is dead, people aren't into Trance, house, D'&B like they use to be. If you want to make it today it's all about hip hip. When we went hip hop we had to double our securuty and police expense. I also never had an arrest in the club until then, after we went hip hop we had at least one arrest every week. Not to get on the all hip hop is bad thing, but there is a minority element that wreaks it for everyone.

Misc bills. Insurance is soooo expensive. Heating a big club and electrictiry, my utilitiy bill was a 4 digit number. Music liscencing...I was harrassed all the time by these people....I'm talking about 6K a year just to be able to play music in my club.

Online dating!! I know this sounds stupid but more and more people are hooking up online. they don't need to go to a club to meet someone.

There are a couple real good nightclub associations in the US. This is not just a xyz problem, clubs all over are struggling. Like I've said to people that know me, next time Jane Doe and I will open a small local bar with a tiny dance floor in the corner. The economics of it are all different."

Nightclubbing is becoming a thing of the past? I know this fellow and patronized his club - he had a nice place, however...

[paul]

Wow Discoman. After reading that I guess we ought to consider ourselves fortunate.
I would never trade cell phones and internet dating for the real thing we had back then.

[DiscoMan]

Really!

Right from the horses mouth, so to speak.

His club was in a downtown location of the second largest city in Massachusetts. He had a lot of competition at his location but the competition is suffering too. If they don't make their money on Saturday night they're fucked.

The city is an economically depressed mill town so that was working against him. There are bars everywhere in this town - appears that's the only business that can survive. I don't know if I'd say that any of them are thriving. Every potential club owner I know say they wouldn't open a night spot in this city for any reason what so-ever.

I obscured his personnal data for privacy's sake, etc. Certainly, he's saying that nightclubbing in mid-sized, northeast urban areas is all but dead. I'd like to get a response from a club owner in a LARGE city.

During the '70s and early '80s from here east to Boston it was one huge club after another. It looks like the suface of the moon now.

[DiscoMan]

A response from a local DJ:

"OK...I gotta get in on this one!!! I started DJ'ing in the late 80's so I got the chance to catch a little bit of the era when DJ's were playing true dance music in the clubs. I had to goto underground clubs to hear the Rap and Reggae type Hip Hop stuff. Trust me...a decade or so has made a ton of difference in the clubs. In the early 90's we were banging the Black Box and Cathy Dennis and then came the commercialization of mainstream Rap AKA Hip Hop. The change really came into the clubs with songs like O.P.P. and Ditty..etc.

Then came the struggle of what to play in the clubs...it used to be that a patron would hear a song in the club and request it from the radio station...now its flip flopped. They hear it on the radio first and ask the club DJ to play it. I work on both the radio and club sides of the coin so I have a slight advantage of using resources that most club jocks dont have.

On Friday nites at the ABCC we bang the hell out of dance music...starting at 11pm we have a small hip-hop room (the xxx) that allows me to play ALL dance music in the courtyard area till 2am. This has been the case from day one and we havent changed it and dont need to. So I dont totally buy the idea that you cant have a "Dance" club anymore. I invite you all to come down some Friday and see what I mean. The other positive is that its 18+ and its still packed with people wanting to hear dance music...some people think of this as a negative...but think about it, if I can get them into it now what do you think they are going to be asking for when they turn 21?

So I guess what I am saying is...dont give up hope! It can still happen but you just have to not be afraid to stick with it and understand that radio is driving the listening for the mainstream clubber now. Play the dance remixes of the urban stuff and I bet you'll start seeing them stay when you play something else that you know is a banger but they havent heard yet. Did that recently with the Remix of ushers Yeah into a track called Poco Loco...they went BONKERS!"

[paul]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Really!

Right from the horses mouth, so to speak.

His club was in a downtown location of the second largest city in Massachusetts. He had a lot of competition at his location but the competition is suffering too. If they don't make their money on Saturday night they're fucked.

The city is an economically depressed mill town so that was working against him. There are bars everywhere in this town - appears that's the only business that can survive....

During the '70s and early '80s from here east to Boston it was one huge club after another. It looks like the suface of the moon now.

Are you referring to Springfield? If so, that town was struggling even back in da day. However, they did have a few discos. I remember The Brothers Four. I think that was the name of that disco I went to in Springfield. That used to be a pretty happening spot.

[Rab]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

Really!

Right from the horses mouth, so to speak.

His club was in a downtown location of the second largest city in Massachusetts. He had a lot of competition at his location but the competition is suffering too. If they don't make their money on Saturday night they're fucked.

The city is an economically depressed mill town so that was working against him. There are bars everywhere in this town - appears that's the only business that can survive. I don't know if I'd say that any of them are thriving. Every potential club owner I know say they wouldn't open a night spot in this city for any reason what so-ever.

During the '70s and early '80s from here east to Boston it was one huge club after another. It looks like the suface of the moon now.

You know DiscoMan, my earliest memories of Worcester (maybe around 1980-1982) was that it was always depressed. I realize you only went to the straight clubs, but the Mailbox in its day did have a certain cache. It was actually kind of amazing to witness the different clienteles between Boston, Providence and Worcester.

Worcester was always a little more laid back; you'd see more guys just wearing levi's and flannel shirts at some of these clubs, whereas Boston was a bit more dressy. Providence definetly, had a bit of a guido element, with the slicked back hair, jewelry and designer jeans....ala Saturday Night Fever. It was interesting because Worcester was lucky if it could have one club survive for at least a couple of years. Whereas Providence always had a glut of them, maybe between 7 to 12 dance clubs...(mafia element??). Providence had so many clubs they would end up canabalizing each other.

Now Worcester has slipped to #3 in New England behind Providence population wise. Providence usually has a very energized feeling to it, people down there don't usually need a reason to party...if you checked out waterfire you'll know what I mean. Worcester, however, I think is laid out a lot better, its more spread out and usually a little easier to park. And also, used to be less head games if you met somebody in one of the clubs...people are more down to earth up there.

Of course, Boston is the place to be...but unfortunately too expensive...

[paul]

Forgot about Woostah! 8)
As for Providence I heard about 20 years ago that Providence is the home of the "retired" gangsta mafia types.

[DiscoMan]

It's Worcester. Was never has bad as it's been these past 10 years or so.

Springfield has very serious economic and street crime problems. There was talk earlier this summer that the Commonwealth was going to place it in receivership and run the city's affairs.

I remember the Malebox - it was right on Main St. Have gay friends who went there and had great times. I was married and a father when it was in it's hayday so I never made it in there with them. I did go to Provincetown with friends quite a bit when I was a young guy and we always had a great time. The gay population there always made us feel welcome and we always had a lot of fun with them. They/Provincetown were so laid back you couldn't help but have a good time.

Worcester has always been a bar town. During the '70s there were some very nice dance clubs in town and in the surrounding suburbs - you didn't have to go to Boston to spend a lot of money.

Providence has a lot of energy agreed - I go there frequently but behind the glitter of Waterfire, The Foxy Lady and Buddy Cianci it's still a hole.

Worcester doesn't even have a faux glitter; it's now just a "Larry the Cable Guy" kinda town. The comments I posted to this thread were from a guy who stepped up to the plate, put his money down and went broke in the process.

[Spellbound]

its not just the dance scene that is not what it used to be

the rap and hip hop scene is not what it used to be
the r&b scene is not what it used to be
the rock scene is not what it used to be

all of the above mentioned scenes have seen better days

^ most of the music released sucks (last 10 years or so)

downloading might be forcing the major labels to rely on the lowest common demoninator for their releases to avoid going bankrupt and out of business

^ i dont know?

rap has turned into gabage. it is filled with gimmicks and formula. once the major labels realized they could profit from rap then it was all over. the streets do not control what is hot anymore. corporate executives do. that explains why the brainwashed sheep are reqeusting the songs they hear on the radio in the clubs instead of vice versa.

dance music doesnt have the same energy as before
rock music doesnt "rock" anymore
rap is full of formula and gimmicks and is fake
r&b is full of girls who cant sing for shit all they are about is image

obviously there are artists in the above mentioned scenes away from the mainstream (except for dance which has basically remained underground ever since the disco backlash) releasing tolerable material and that is what i try and focus on when it comes to new music

but as far as the mainstream goes all of the above mentioned scenes have seen better days

hopefully in the not so distant future the major record labels will become a thing of the past. forced out of the business due to file sharing and downloading.

[originalbigm]

Had to take my mother in for cataract surgery yesterday and had some time to kill while waiting for her.So I went down to a nearby Chapters store and picked up "Last Night A D.J. Saved My Life" by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton.Highly recommend this for disco history buffs.I found it a terrific read (Sorry Quinny ).Finished it last night.It certainly addresses and supports a number of questions and points this thread has read as well as offering up additional ones.
The long and short of it is that there is no number one reason for the state & condition of the club scene today. We've arrived at this position through various developments and evolutions in the disco genre all contributing to the sad state of affairs.While it primarily focuses on the emergence and development of the DJ it ties it in with the shift in music attitudes and the club scene from the 60's to the 90's and beyond.A must addition for disco reference material. :) For those of us who worked as DJ's during the early days there are definately facts and styles we can well relate to found in these stories.

[QUINNY]

Oh, come on guys. EVERY GENERATION since time began bemoans the state of current affairs.
Time to grow old gracefully and accept that things are different now.

BTW: What is meant by a "good read"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[efunk_adelic]

Originally Posted by Spellbound

rap is full of formula and gimmicks and is fake
r&b is full of girls who cant sing for shit all they are about is image

obviously there are artists in the above mentioned scenes away from the mainstream (except for dance which has basically remained underground ever since the disco backlash) releasing tolerable material and that is what i try and focus on when it comes to new music

but as far as the mainstream goes all of the above mentioned scenes have seen better days

hopefully in the not so distant future the major record labels will become a thing of the past. forced out of the business due to file sharing and downloading.

I have to agree with you as far as black music goes... I subscribe to new music on CD's in 4 different formats... what a waste of money this is.... proof in point... there is about 10 songs on my urban format that I use... The rest is S***. :roll: I cringe when I get requests... TWISTA???? come on... :roll: you can't even dance to these songs at all....

Rock has turned into music that makes you want to committ suicide...

R&B of course is a bunch of garbage also... It is all fashion bull.... oh well, life goes on I guess... :-?