#1 reason why todays club scene is dead?????

[buckaroo]

Originally Posted by ALBATROS

...
If you ask me - it's DJ's who are responsible for most of this you have debated on this topic. In early '90s, there was still lots of good dance tunes produced from GROUPS.
Now, tell me how many groups do you know, making dance music today ? Even if there are any - they are mostly good looking fellows and girls showing off their sexy looks, while in background some DJ is making music for them. For me I'ts big difference between beeing a DJ and producer. This is where problem is. You can be a very good DJ, but that doesn't mean that you are automaticaly capable of making good music. ...And NO Quinny, being in music scene for almost 25 years - this is my scene too! Sorry for you if you feel too old, but I still think I have word to say. I cannot see " only for under 25 " tag sticked anywhere !
ALBATROS

I can agree with you in part, where it concerns old git DJs like Paul Oakenfold, who are basically dictating to young kids what they should hear and dance to. But there are many decent bands around making good dancy music: Moloko from England, and Solu Music from the US are two that come to my mind. They produce some good beats and housey disco. Also, Basement Jaxx and Underground are examples of good dance groups who are definitely not pretty :lol: . I mean jeez, have you seen pictures of them. :lol: :lol:

I'm with Quinny on this. There is some old fogey-itis around here, going on about the good ol' days of the '70s. The early '90s were quite cool for clubbing too here in old blighty. I for one do not want to be the sad old git, still stomping around the clubs when I'm in me 40s or 50s. I had my time. Let the youngsters of today grab a piece.

[judydoggie]

What was I thinking?! I've read the posts since my last under this category and stand corrected. Where was my head? I have heard about the club scene everywhere from Europe to Japan. I have had the pleasure of engaging in more decadence than a man deserves at a certain lovely locale on the Isle of St. Maartin. So it's not dead. I'd like to re-classify my comments as applying only to U.S. clubs out of major markets.

I was a bit taken aback by the man who said that when he was young he didn't want "old fogies" to hang around his stomping grounds. I recall an evening when dancing at Ice Palace Fire Island with Moor Dubin, the NYC antiques dealer (read any biography of John Delorean to find out what happened to Moor). At the time, Moor was about 35 years my senior. Well, nobody in the club seemed to care. When Roy Thode mixed the music into "Disco Inferno," Moor reached into his pockets and took out two of those little novelty devices that you push, and they spin around and make sparks behind a wheel of colored cellophane. This he did with a total deadpan on his face. All the queens were tripping out and thought that it was just the most magnificent thing and they danced around Moor in a circle, until poor Moor's hands got tired and he couldn't push the triggers any more.

What about George Sardi at Ice Palace 57 and The Red Parrot? What about Capote (and the rest of the wealthy, famous geriatric set) at 54?

I'm a NYC boy transferred to little ole Hartford, CT. I've ventured into all kinds of situations. It's ridiculous that they still have velvet ropes at some of the little clubs around here. And the rockers... oooh; they love to pick fights to impress their girlfriends. I'm only 5'6" and obviously nearly 50. Pretty cool a 23-year old six-footer getting attitude with me eh? I just tell 'em I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. My crowd takes care of the rest, much to the surprise of these thugs.

More later...

[Studio74]

DISCODISK said"STUDIO74 ah your from setubal i stayed there last december
and talking of lisbon i know it has great nightlife,but not the club i went to some years back it was the worst night out i ever had in my life, dont even ask as im still distressed"

Geez,Discodisk,what do you think of Setubal´s nightlife?And what club was that of Lisbon?Was the music in it that bad?

[vienne]

I gotta come back on a few points made since I last logged on.

Efunk, I agree with you that it has been for quite a while to dance with yourself on the dance floor. I think this mainly took off in the gay clubs back in the day. I remember that once I had established myself in a club, I’d take off and the guys that I had got me into the club would go there way and I would party all night long dancing alone or sometimes, Freaking with some gay guy who had absolutely no interest in me, but was merely generating interest for himself with some fella he had his eye on :o . Yet, at the same time and in the same era, if I went to a straight club, I HAD to dance with a partner and it would HAVE to be a male – for decorum’s sake!

But the dancing round the handbags… you’d have to be English to appreciate this phenomena :lol:

I think Paul is correct in saying that the disco days of yore, was multigenerational. Remember that disco-granny at Studio 54 – she was amazing :lol: .

Quinny, I don’t even know where your coming from… sorry. My son has just finished university and we all know how hedonistic that generation would “like” to be. Whilst he and his friends go clubbing at the drop of a hat, they all agree, its hard to go to any place and get a consistent energy within the clubs themselves. There are more bad nights or so-so, nights out than there are great ones. I still love my music, especially the old stuff, my son prefers the same as me – and God knows I never pushed my taste on him – how could I? As much as my parents loved listening to Perry Como et al, it certainly didn’t influence my taste in music and so with my son and I. “Honed”, would not be a word I would use to describe my like or dislike of any type of music - rather my taste is eclectic and I feel that there is merit in all types of music. What we are discussing here most certainly belongs to the energy generated within the clubs because of the music that is played by DJs and the music industry on a whole. In fact, I agree with much of what Albatros wrote.

Yes, indeed, many of us are the next generation, but that said, we are more liberal than all the generations before us. The 60s generation quickly turned into their parents, we for the most part have stayed younger, longer. I wish my son could experience the pure hedonistic days I experienced in my youth, but there again, I think that said, the pendulum will swing in that direction – the kids are saying the same thing themselves, they too are tired of the artificially modified music that is out there today – all sampled from good old songs – they too are looking for originality and creativity – it is out there but just hidden by all the commercially produced music by the big music producers.

What I'm saying is it ain't all bad, but if kids the same age as my son and younger are scouring music shops for the old stuff in such quantities, then they are making a statement.

Vienne

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by vienne

Quinny, I don’t even know where your coming from… sorry. My son has just finished university and we all know how hedonistic that generation would “like” to be. Whilst he and his friends go clubbing at the drop of a hat, they all agree, its hard to go to any place and get a consistent energy within the clubs themselves. There are more bad nights or so-so, nights out than there are great ones.

Has anything changed? I think not. Since when has any era or any club consistently had great nights? Even DJ gods have bad nights, some more than others. I admit that club culture has suffered massive overload and so, yes, one would expect the overall experience to become somewhat diluted. The very same thing happened to disco, c. 1979 according to our U.S. fellow postees.
University students are not the biggest, most notable lovers of club music are they?

What I'm saying is it ain't all bad, but if kids the same age as my son and younger are scouring music shops for the old stuff in such quantities, then they are making a statement.

This could be peer pressure. Heaven knows that people of a certain age are impressionable and desperate to find their individualism. This quite often means going against the grain and seeking out something that not too many other people have. There are plenty of 'name DJs' releasing 'more obscure crap from the vaults of real music' types of CD compilations and doing special club nights to feed the flames of desire among those gullible enough. The music industry (and DJs in particular) is so manipulative nowadays. Cynical....you bet ya.
Vienne

[Nano]

Well... since this thread is already too long to answer the early posts (I shoulda been reading it earlier) I'll tell you what one Buenos Aires club is doing to "revive" the good vibe, or maybe to "make sure" there is plenty of desire being expressed in between its walls.
This club caters to young people -15/25- and has two large rooms separated by a door. At the beginning, the door is closed and one of the rooms is empty. The other is full of young women punters (the guys enter the other room later). The ladies have what we call "canilla libre", that is you pay one drink and have free refill. Now, the women can have their refill forever and ever... as long as they DON'T use the bathroom. If they give in to the urge, they have to give their glass at the bathroom door and it's over.
So, imagine all these young ladies drinking and drinking, and shaking their legs to avoid the door of relief. Then, there's a male strip tease show. The dancers do their stuff, the girls writhe in ecstasy... Plenty of hysterics vibe going out! Then the strippers and gone... and then, only THEN, they open the door to the other room, where the male punters are waiting, and the dance begins.
The club's owners say the girls go in droves and have a really great time. :)

[QUINNY]

Nano: LOL.
And the guys thought they kept their legs crossed 'cos they didn't want sex with 'em!!! :roll: I can hear the YEEE-HAAAS as that door opens, from here.

[vienne]

Quinny, I think you are taking things too seriously. I can’t do that thingy you do, so I will cut and paste:

You said:

“Has anything changed? I think not. Since when has any era or any club consistently had great nights? Even DJ gods have bad nights, some more than others. I admit that club culture has suffered massive overload and so, yes, one would expect the overall experience to become somewhat diluted. The very same thing happened to disco, c. 1979 according to our U.S. fellow postees.
University students are not the biggest, most notable lovers of club music are they?”

You are doing a very English thing here by turning a person’s words into themselves to make an invalid argument. Things certainly have changed. Kids cannot play in the streets like they used to, this is new, not something any other generation has had to experience. And, what I, and most people are talking about here is the energy that one experiences now in clubbing. I, for one, whilst living in NY consistently enjoyed the clubs I went to – if they were good, they were consistently good – but as with everything, there comes a day when they do decline and close down. My brother lived here in the UK and consistently had good nights in the clubs he frequented. But what irks me is when my son and his friends would rather stay in because they cannot find clubs with any energy whatsoever. And, too, I beg to differ on your statement that university students are not the biggest, most notable lovers of club music – since from the wide range of friends my son has, proves this theory wrong.

As for the reason kids would scour music shops for old dance music, peer pressure certainly would not come into it – why would it?

The rest of your post I completely agree with. It is a shame that when a somewhat original piece of music is released and goes to number one, it usually has a nursery rhyme jingle to it. Yeah, I’m cynical too, but there again listen to a lot of the kids that are really into music, they too feel the same way.

Don’t mean to sound confrontational – just a differing view is all.

Vienne


P.S. I'm going to have to get my son and his friends to sign up to this forum, since I've spread the word to them and they love it - they are now all lurkers - hopefully only for the moment.

[QUINNY]

Vienne: Me serious? At times maybe, but I like to think that if this forum is to be worth anything, then comments need to have a certain amount of gravitas and differing opinions. So, I imagine we're singing from the same hymn sheet, to some extent.

It could be that your son (and his pals) aren't clubbers as such. That's the simple truth, maybe. Only he can know.
Staying in, watching TV is an epidemic that straddles all age groups and other demographics. I'm under the impression that people generally don't go out so much. It's to do with many, many factors, not just the quality of what's on offer.

[vienne]

Okay Quinny, you make contradictions here.

Further, you make assumptions and judgements without even knowing whom you judge.

The fact is, these kids sometimes wish not to go to a club simply because they find that too often the evenings are flat. Not everyone likes to get stinking drunk, wake up next morning and say "yeah... I must have had a good time because I don't remember a thing". So how would you define a "clubber" per se?

Secondly, when the kids decide to "stay in", they do so by going to one or other's home to listen to music, exchanging grooves they have discovered with one another, or in fact, they will simply make a night of it with their girlfriends.

You said: "...people don't generally go out so much and its to do with many, many factors...", well, let's face it, not least of which IS the lack of quality of what is on offer! Kids included.

Incidentally, they have just discovered a really great bar in the City and now go there regularly - its called AKA. Look it up on google - it is most noted for the quality of the music it plays, thus inspiring a fantastic energy within it. Its always full and the guys have never had a bad night there - lots of eye candy too I am told.

Vienne

[buckaroo]

:roll:
Um...Now now ladies. Take it easy.

I reckon, there are various reasons why people stay in: Lack of cash, shit clubs, ignorant patrons in shit clubs, bad weather, not being arsed to go out, being too old etc. I recall years ago one certain place in central London put a sign up outside which read "No single guys" :-? 'How can a girl walk into a place with that on the door?' a pal asked me, as we stood outside the place, watching girls walk in, arm in arm. What the owners didn't forsee was, that about six months to a year down the road, their faithful patrons who had been insulted and dismissed, would frequent other venues never to return, leaving aforementioned club half empty on a Saturday night. This certainly would put people off.

A few weeks back, I was with a younger friend somewhere, as she bopped around while listening to her portable CD player. I asked her for a quick listen, and commented that the track she was playing came out in about 1980 or so. 'That's right.' she said. I replied, 'You're too young to know this!!'. Just goes to show, ya can't underestimate the young 'uns. They like 'oldies' too.

[QUINNY]

Vienne; Hmmmmm. Don't know what to make of your post.

Your son and his mates have obviously found one place they think is good enough for 'em. Surely this is the point. Everyone will find their own level and everyone will always assume that their taste is as good as, or better than the next guy's. There are always different buttons that need to be pressed before anyone will say to themselves "yeah, I like this place..this is good/great/f*****g fantastic!" One man's meat etc,
So, what I'm trying to say is that your son's (and his immediate coterie of friends') damnation of the current clubbing scene is hardly a basis to state that the whole scene is (or has been) somehow inferior to one of 30 years ago. O.K. I'll agree that their lack of enthusiasm could be indicative of something, but unless they're acknowledged style gurus or clubbing connoiseurs, hey, what am I gonna think? Maybe people expect too much nowadays and they'd find even the best discos of 30 years ago as dull as Brighton beach in January. Maybe punters need the return of personality jocks rather than mixers. Maybe the de facto wholesale adoption of mixing has led to your son's perceived parlous state of clubbing. It does make 'em all generically similar. Who knows?

Perhaps they ought to get pissed, get high and they'd enjoy themselves a little more. After all, that's what most of us did to some degree, didn't we, especially in NYC by all accounts? Are they so afraid of being ever so slightly hedonistic? Ya gotta live it ta love it, eh? I get the feeling they're part-timers.

BTW: The most incredible energy levels I ever experienced were at some Raves I attended (on a professional basis). They were, for many in attendance, obviously drug induced and non stop for up to 12 hours. I'd been out of the disco scene for some 6 years, but I could appreciate something special when I saw it. The DJs were brilliant technicians and had the punters eating out of the palms of their hands the whole night through. Maybe, just maybe though, many punters went home disappointed because it wasn't as good as....... :D :roll:

[vienne]

Quinny, for some reason I like you... :o for the life of me I can't think why - cos your as hard-headed as they come!

As for style gurus - who is to say that my boy and his friends aren't? They are all in the arts - two of them have worked on the new Thunderbirds movie - (that's not to say that they luv the movie or anything - but many of them, my boy included, are already being recognised in their chosen fields - terribly artsy fartsy - hey wot can a mother do, but defend her cub to the hilt! That's what you should make of my post :evil:

And don't even let me start on my boy's dress sense - pfffffttttt - suffice it to say, my boy's taste aint only in his mouth 8)

BTW - I acknowledge that everyone was doing drugs in the clubs I attended in NY, but quite honestly I didn't do this. Most specifically because I'm always on a natural high in any case! Of course, I never admitted it - didn't want to seem to be a party pooper. But it paid off very well for me - I still look very much the way I did back then - not a line, not a wrinkle and without having to resort to any form of surgery

I look forward to rumbling with you again :x

Vienne

[QUINNY]

Vienne: Thanks for the back handed compliment. :D

So, let me get this right. I'm hard headed (whatever that means), 180 degrees opposite to your thinking, too serious, assumptive and contradictory. Thank god I'm human!!

I can't possibly counter a mother's unconditional love for her nipper, so I'll bow out of this debate at this stage.
Just remember one thing about me and everything will become as clear as mud. There's black and white, but it's the mass of grey in the middle that interests me most and where love and respect for each other actually lies.

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by Studio74

Geez,Discodisk,what do you think of Setubal´s nightlife?And what club was that of Lisbon?Was the music in it that bad?

no nightlife for me in setubal STUDIO74 after driving 2 days from st malo [france] just a restaurant and hotel[mer-sol] we had planned to stay another night [en route to madeira] but i had no ticket and being so close to christmas i was worried i wouldnt get a flight so i made my way to the airport to book a flight with TAP [Take Another Plane :lol: ]and i left the others there.
the lisbon club was some years before and i dont recall the name, i was staying with friends in lisbon somewhere near the zoo, the friends were really not good hosts you were having really good november weather 28 degrees but my friends thought i would prefer to stay inside with the blinds closed watching t.v and drinking whisky all day[and every day] :o they kept going on about this club we were going to on saturday night,i sensed disaster,to be honest we did a few great bars in lisbon but i think somehow we got mixed up with lisbons high society,the club was filled with stuck up people,terrible euro pop dance music and HORRENDOUS bar prices and all that was going through my mind was the words to an old edwin starr record 'backstreet'.... 'ive been livin on the main street where so-ciety is the thing, well the people who live on the main street they dont know how to swing,the people on the back street they swwwing all night long,they dont care how much money they got as long as theyre having fun,so show me the backstreet,show me the backstreet,show me the BACKSTREET :lol: