#1 reason why todays club scene is dead?????

[QUINNY]

Hey c'mon fellas.
Is it so difficult to accept that the club scene is just as vital to those people who go clubbing today as it ever was to us 25 - 30 years ago. How a 20 year old can make any valid judgement about what happened before they were born, I'll never know, but.... Perhaps you're just a lost cause who wouldn't have found the scene any better all those years ago? Not everyone who went clubbing then, had the time of their lives. Many ended up completely screwed up, as the average punter would only ever like a relatively small number of the records played and there were just as many vices that were being tapped into. As for people just standing around posing etc....all of that used to be a regular feature 25 - 30 years ago. If anyone tells you any different, don't believe them. As for the sex aspect. What do you think discos are/were all about? Give me a disco where sex was high on the agenda (Gay or straight) and it would be a damned good one. Why? Because everyone knew they stood a good chance of making out that night. That's what discos are/were all about. Forget the music, except in a small number of places. Music was only a (an important) sideshow to the real business of the evening. My job as a DJ was to create the right ambience for the punters to get off with each other. I was never under any illusion that my role was anything else.

People still have a good time in disco clubs (in the UK), although it has to be said that the club scene is somewhat in decline at the moment. That might not altogether be a bad thing, eh?

[Studio74]

I have to agree with lots of stuff Spellbound said...The night in Setubal is almost like Spellbound said in his post.The people like to watch and be seen,the music is crap, too comercial,the owners of the places interfere a lot with the Dj´s work,a lot of people worry too much with what others are wearing,and if you dance in a empty dancefloor,people stare at you like you were nuts or something...there´s a lot of social pressure that sometimes it´s so intense it can´t be ignored,and there are people that are pretending to have a good time,when in fact they´re not having a good time, and there´s also the "pick-up" element in those places,and the girls in Setubal like to pretend they´re hard to get...Of course there are places in Setubal that i feel good at,but they´re the exception...But if you go to Lisbon (Portugal´s capital),it´s different,you can dance in a empty dancefloor,and no-one cares,the music is better (of course there are places in Lisbon that are like the places i hate in Setubal...but in Lisbon i have a wide choice of places to go,wich doesn´t happen in Setubal...).

About the music,i like this new Electro revival, and also like a lot of the Disco-influenced House...They have the feeling of the good music of the 70´s and the 80´s,but i only get to hear these types of sound mostly in Lisbon or in casual parties in some place of Setubal (House isn´t 100% implemented in Setubal...and let´s not speak of Electro...)

[DISCODISK]

STUDIO74 ah your from setubal i stayed there last december :P
and talking of lisbon i know it has great nightlife,but not the club i went to some years back it was the worst night out i ever had in my life, dont even ask as im still distressed :lol:

[Videoskooter]

Well, there still are good clubs where you can enjoy da rhythm.

But, like all you guys, I must agree that the general vibe is way below zero.

And like Marky said: it's the music. Most of the clubs here are playing hard-techno or gangsterrap. Are clubowners surprised when they "discover" that most of the audience is high on drugs, are carrying knives and guns, are drunk after 15 minutes and begin to ennoy each other and fight?

It's the attitude also. Where is the great time when we went to da Disco and got high on music. Laughing, enjoying and dancing WITH each other?

Those times are gone my friends and I doubt if they'll come back.

And for people who know Belgium. Where is the golden age of the "Manhattan", "Le Garage", "The Palace", "Palm Beach",
"Pebbles" and other dreamdisco's. Gone, gone, gone :(

[DiscoMan]

I imagine we must all accept the fact that the '70s saw a wave of nightlife that in all likelihood will never ever be repeated. Those of us who are baby boomers, who enjoyed Disco and who made the '70s what they were are truly unique. :D

Perhaps THAT is the only legacy we will pass on.

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by DiscoMan

I imagine we must all accept the fact that the '70s saw a wave of nightlife that in all likelihood will never ever be repeated. Those of us who are baby boomers, who enjoyed Disco and who made the '70s what they were are truly unique. :D

Perhaps THAT is the only legacy we will pass on.

4 lines, 1 truth!

Well said :D !

[vienne]

I have to agree with much of what has been said before regarding the Club scene everywhere. Things just ain't what they used to be. Oh yeah, I may have been privileged enough to have experienced the heady days of 70's discos and after-hour joints. But I must say, the disco's were good, but the gay after-hour joints were far, far better. For one thing albeit I am a female and completely enjoy dressing up and looking good, when I went out to party, I wanted to PARTY! This I could do at places like The Loft, The Garage, etc., I would slip on a my jeans, a nice T-shirt and some ballet slippers and I was done! The vibes and the music were utterly out of this world. In fact, it was another world.

My son, does the Club scene now and poor thing, he is still looking for that illusive vibe that I have described to him on countless occassions during my clubbing days lol.

Another thing, I remember that whilst I was living in NY and partying every moment God sent - my brother who was still living in the UK came to visit me. He is as straight as they come, so I was in trepidation when I took him out with me on his first Saturday night in NY. I took him to The Loft and he just loved it - following Saturday, The Garage and then on to Buttermilk Bottom. He thought it was wild - he totally loved it - said there was nothing like these clubs ever in his experience.

Hey, let's face it, females still dance round their handbags here in the UK lol :o

Vienne

[efunk_adelic]

So much has changed in the last 30 years.... It is or has been for quite a while to dance by yourself on the dance floor.

Back in the day.... it was unheard of to not pick someone from the opposite sex and enter the dance floor.

Plus today's songs are missing good lyrics, emotion, etc... etc... etc...

Too many distractions.... cell phones on the dance floor... omg!!!! :roll: :roll: really???? I just learned something today...

I remember going to a techno oriented club around '97 and was sorta disappointed. Couldn't find any one to dance with... plus and older than dirt... lol so I danced by myself for a couple of songs with my DJ friend next to me doing the same exact thing... lmfao :lol: :lol:

I also went to a black/r&b/rap oriented club around '02 was the last time I stepped into a club and was more impressed with the mixing skills of the jock on duty. At this club (straight) everyone had a partner and I felt more at home. :P

[paul]

Quinny, I absolutely 100% disagree with your take. Conversely I totally agree with Marky.
One indicator of the difference between today and the disco days of yore was the multigenerational appeal of discos back then. I remember seeing people over 50 in those clubs. That's a fact that can't be ignored and I believe not only reflects on the club/sex scene but the quality of the music. Now I'm a part of that older demographic and I have absolutely no interest in the club scene. The today's music is horrible for the most part. Believe me, I give it a listen from time to time. As I've said before, the music industry is suffering from quality. Who the hell wants to buy this crap.
I'd be willing to admit that perhaps we were hedonistic when it came to the whole disco scene. I don't see anywhere near the same enthusiasm with today's young people, do you? You admitted at the end of your post the scene today is in decline.
As for the sex at the discos, it was nice. However as long as people are on the planet, in fact as long there living creatures on planet, sex will be a part of everything. I'm always amazed that with your rather dim view of disco that you stayed involved with it Quinny. Tell uncle Paul. Did you fall passionately in love with a disco queen, got burned by her, and now have bitter sweet memories of the whole period? It's OK dude, that's what I Will Survive is meant to cure

[judydoggie]

When I was first dipping my big toe in the vast, warm, decadent swimming pool called "the club scene," the drinking age was 18, there was no AIDS, Nancy Reagan and the cops weren't spending millions on TV ads that said "just say no," and the dance music industry was so big that a decent disco hit could make money on its own; and God forbid it should cross-over into major market pop radio and you've got a gold record. These days, the music biz is much, much more commercial. I'm predominately in the jazz business and so much of our material is published on independent labels. ASCAP and BMI are remarkably unfair in paying royalties (how often do you walk into a restaurant and they're playing jazz?)

Now let's look at the psychosocial element. In Disco's heyday, club-goers actually looked forward to going out and moving and shaking like there was no tomorrow. For some reason, my unscientific observations saw dancing plummet until night spots became "listening" venues. The worst time was about 1996. Then, slowly but surely, dance returned slowly. There are indeed artists out there that turn out very, very good dance material now (albeit spaced among the "love jams" or "groove jams" on the albums -- once again, gotta get those singles out there on major FM airplay). However, the members of the crowd who are "on the fence" about dancing fall victim to their shyness because they're intimidated by others who are sooooo "hip" they'd never get caught dancing and are so busy on their cell phones, raspberry devices, or worse, using their camera-phones to take pictures.

I recall discos and after-hour clubs being genuinely friendly places, far from the distant and competitive venues I hear some accuse them of being. I genuinely enjoyed going out for coffee (and sometimes breakfast) with a gang from wherever we were and discussing the evening's peak experiences (the best mixes, who spilled a drink on whom, which celebrities were where and how foolishly they acted).

There are kids these days who're into swing dancing (ballroom dancing to jazz standards) and I find that quite refreshing. I think that all the pressure to stay away from "dens of iniquity" from the parents and the pressure to be "cool" from their peers is starting to relent. Thus, the pendulum, is swinging the other way. (I'm a firm believer that trends and behaviors are sine waves; in other words, "what goes up must come down.") These days, I find, the kids are good, as a whole, according to the NEA, intellectualism as a trait is more valued by students' peers than in the last 45 years (thank goodness "dumb is cool" is dead). And as a result of statistically high self-confidence levels, they're willing to try new things, and "be silly."

I think that the psychosocial trends described above, combined with the "retro" trends in fashion (with the '60s and '70s well-represented) combine to equal fertile ground for the disco seeds to be planted and grow tall.

We took the risk and went out onto the dance floor and focused on the karma of the mix and the feel of the moment and nothing else. Perhaps it's time for us to actively pursue promoting "retro nights" at clubs and seeing who bites. If you're in Connecticut, get ahold of me at plewis08@snet.net and I'll provide the space and pay you to boot if you've got the talent and the records. I want to begin in mid-September.

[QUINNY]

Uncle Paul and fellow Americans: I think this may be a US/rest of the world divide. All I can say is that in the UK (and Europe) the clubbing generation has never stopped partying. The people who go out partying today will be having exactly the same conversations and discussions that we're having now, in 30 years time. This whole thread smacks of 'Old Fogeyitis'.
I'm an old fogey, I admit it and it is this that has tempered my once unadulterated love of disco. My tastes are different now and my musical perception more sharply honed. Still, that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy putting on a CD or minidisc with disco music on it, but it does mean that my choice of tracks is more discerning/narrow. I'm at an age where I don't enjoy listening to something I don't like and I'm not gonna praise something, just because it's of a certain genre or from a certain time. That is surely blind ignorance.

BTW: As a youngish man, I didn't WANT to see 50 year olds on my dancefloor or in my disco. I would have been mortified to think that my music was also liked by my parents!!!! This is maybe where US and European disco experience differs the most. We didn't want to play the old fogey disco sounds, whereas you, by all accounts, lapped 'em up. For me, Disco and its lifestyle, was the sound of rebellion, or at least my generation's very own musical stamp of assertion. That's why funk was so vital to me. It was made by relatively young guys, was raw, heavy, slightly dangerous and didn't appeal so much to the old folks. It's one reason why I won't put down today's clubbers and their scene. It's their scene, NOT ours and nor should it be.

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by judydoggie

Perhaps it's time for us to actively pursue promoting "retro nights" at clubs and seeing who bites. If you're in Connecticut, get ahold of me at plewis08@snet.net and I'll provide the space and pay you to boot if you've got the talent and the records. I want to begin in mid-September.

Judydoggie; If only I were in New hampshire instead of Hampshire. I could play some of the great jazz funk/disco and disco funk records in between hankering after some live jazz with you. Surprised you don't promote some of that......but I'm not, as I know only too well how difficult it is to get people to come and see live jazz nowadays.

BTW; So far as I know we have a retro club in Southampton called 'Flares' (how droll) and we have a 'Soul Cellar'. I think the Soul Cellar comes out on top, so far as taste and imagination are concerned. It has a good reputation, although any retro club runs the risk of getting too obscure, 'cos all the best records are soon known/gobbled up and the only 'new' sounds are ever more obscure ones. A point is reached where this can get outta hand.

[ALBATROS]

Hi folks,

I have just returned from Ibiza ( holidays... ), so I have some impressions which can be related to this topic...
As You may know, Ibiza is in summer the hottest clubbing place on earth. Every star DJ is playing there residency in some superclub. In certain magazine covering Islands night -
life, there has been an interwiev with couple of DJ's who are playing in islands best known places. I can particulary recall an interwiev with David Morales. He was asked what he thinks of development of club music from '70s onwards. His respond was something like ;" Yeah, it has changed a lot, today's club music has become very agressive, very brittle. Its all about the money, we use to throw parties with friends like Knuckles and co. for free, but today every youngster wants to get top billing. The dance music market is saturated, it's very hard to find good tunes , there is loads of crap produced, because every kid with a Laptop and a bit of time can cut and paste some crap togaether, burn it and/or distribute it over internet.
The music we have produced back then sounded fat in comparison with today's tracks." There was some more but this is a concentrated version. The same way of thinking You can hear from almost all DJ's who are on the
scene already from beginning, or any respectable lenght of time.
If you ask me - it's DJ's who are responsible for most of this you have debated on this topic. In early '90s, there was still lots of good dance tunes produced from GROUPS.
Now, tell me how many groups do you know, making dance music today ? Even if there are any - they are mostly good looking fellows and girls showing off their sexy looks, while in background some DJ is making music for them. For me I'ts big difference between beeing a DJ and producer. This is where problem is. You can be a very good DJ, but that doesn't mean that you are automaticaly capable of making good music. There are exceptions, of course. But this is the point. In my time every kid want's to play a guitar, now they all want to be a DJ's !!! And NO Quinny, being in music scene for almost 25 years - this is my scene too! Sorry for you if you feel too old, but I still think I have word to say. I cannot see " only for under 25 " tag sticked anywhere !
ALBATROS

[DiscoMan]

I enjoy clubbing at 52! Still look at the world through 24 year old eyes and will continue to do so as long as I'm able.

Have to be a little more selective in where I go - some clubs are only meat shows with young guys jockin' young girls.

And the music SUCKS!
And has for the past 10 years.

[cdmack]

I seem to remember a very much alive "I hate disco" era. Many thought disco was the worst thing that happened to music. People where flinging 45's and Lp's like frisbee's. Then, when it wouldn't go away and kept evolving, everyone got on the bandwagon and made a record! Along with the drugs, sexual revolution, and clubs, it developed a life all its own. :D

I clubbed in the 70's, 80's and into the middle 90's , which began when I was 15. Officially, disco died in what.....'82 (or sometime around that?). I had some really great times. The downside was the hustle part it, if you didn't dance good, you weren't having a dancing night. Most clubs were clickish and you had to make sure that you somehow danced in front of a crowd and "showed" your style to advertise that you were "good". (and I was once of the guilty vain ones.) :oops:

Yet when underground and house took over, I thought it was just as great. (I was never really into the hardcore rap sound, maybe a deep house hip-hop beat, so clubs that played the hard stuff, I never went to.) Gone were the orchestrations and lyrics that told stories that we had gotten used to singing, but the underlying beat remained, ever unchanging as it evolved into the sound of underground clubs/music (and yes, it was the mostly gay-male clubs for me, a straight female) and I enjoyed them just as much. However, gone were also alot of my friends who hung out at the original "Loft, Garage and Crisco's" to some of the killer's of "clubbing". (For a while, addiction and Aids, changed the face of partying too, but that's another story.) :(

And I do agree, once techno strolled in through the door, I politely exited. There was just no ump!! All it made me want to do was drugs and bang my head against anything that was near! (And I never did the drug scene, didn't think I needed it.)

I just blame it on the generation gap of music and have decided that I've become my mother. I remember how excited she used to get when she would hear the sounds of the 50's. She enjoyed the 60's and the 70's and even some of the early 80's too! But after that, she too crossed that gap, never to return, throwing all her loyality to the sounds of her youth and the "good" old days. Yes, I've become my mother!

I don't think there are many that would trade the fun of their youth, for the fun of a even youger youth of today.

As for today's youth, they cannot compare with an experience they have never had. So they cannot even come close to the times we have described from our memories. But would they enjoy it just the same? It's truely a differenty time.

Yet, they're out there, songs being remade or sampled to the songs we hold so dear. All to a slightly different beat!

So I've joined Discomusic.com, read the forums, dig up clips to some of the favorites of others to see if I remember them. If I do, I try to get my hands on it and add it to my collection of songs (all on my PC, not vinyl).

I believe the good times are still out there. There's just a little more variety for eveyone (in NY, anyway). True there's far more sampling and an artificial sound that didin't exist before. However, there are places out there just trying to catch on to what we felt back then, you just need to find them and ride them before a new evolution kicks in! :D