Who Mixed First?

[Fiorenzo]

Originally Posted by Giovanni

As a matte of fact, mixing was already estabilished by '69. Everybody was mixing records in radios and live shows (when the band was having a break).

Beat mixing is another story... I think that Francis Grasso is being credited as the first because all of those who wrote about dj history used as their source the Albert Golman's book "Disco". This book was released in '79 and goes back about ten years to capture the beginning of the movement, when The Sanctuary was probably the most extravagant thing to happen in the NY night scene. Maybe many others Francis existed and we don't know or just can't remember.

Djing at the end of the 60s was not considered a serious job amd even many of the djs did it just to get some money to survive and find a different job. With the turn of the 70s many understood the big business around the role of the dj and several of them began djing professionally.

Being italian, I can assure you that in the early 70s we had here a lot of pure discos, and a lot clubs alternating live bands and djs. The same is true for every mediterranean country (Spain, France, Greece), where tourist gathered, particularly in summertime.
On summertime many UK and northern europe jocks came down to Spain and Greece for seasonal contracts, while in Italy and France local djs were holding the wheels.
All of these djs were playing import records from the US and almost nobody was talking over the music: being the lyrics in a foreign language, nobody cared about these.... everyone was concentrate on beat mixing. The less you talked the more you were considered a disco dj. Not talking at all was the top disco djing style, because people listened to the music and to the dj ability to blend records.

Ibiza became the temple of discos and many spanish and italian djs developed mixing techniques that usually are credited to historical NY jocks like Walter Gibbons..... almost every serious disco dj here in the early 70s had 2 copies of every record, was phasing records, beat mixing by blend or chop, adding percussions from other records, and so on.

When the first US djs became touring Europe (David Roriguez in 76 played the Pierro's in Mykonos, and later Tom Savarese in 78 played La Pineta in Milano Marittima and other italian clubs) left a sense of delusion in the local djs that technically were absolutely superior by far.

I believe that beat mixing happened more or less at the same time everywhere, but it's not possible to say who was first

Giovanni's post couldn't be more precise and I completely agree with it. In 1968/1969 Francis Grasso was probably the first mixing DJ and other guys like Michael Capello, Steve D'Acquisto, Nicky Siano followed suit. Since all these guys hailed from Brooklyn, we can actually say that in a way beat mixing hails from Brooklyn, too.

I'm also Italian and a dj as well. I started in the late 70's but I know some people who were already spinning in 1970/1971. Local dj's were very good at beat mixing. Also, around 1976/1977 you would hear lots of mix shows on Italian private radio stations. Guys like Micky from Ciak, Jonathan Jan, Claudio Cecchetto were excellent mixers and, when Savarese came to Italy, his mixing skills disappointed quite a few local dj's.

this reminds me of that commercial where the guy spills his drink and trys to wipe it off with a rag and then starts scratching and the caption reads something to the effect of 1979 the birth of scratching. real funny stuff.

Grand Wizard Theodore is recognized as being the first scratcher. He took Grandmaster Flash's ideas and techniques and brought them to a different level. And that occured sometime during the second half of the seventies.

[ladyboygrimsby]

Originally Posted by Fiorenzo

Giovanni's post couldn't be more precise and I completely agree with it. In 1968/1969 Francis Grasso was probably the first mixing DJ and other guys like Michael Capello, Steve D'Acquisto, Nicky Siano followed suit. Since all these guys hailed from Brooklyn, we can actually say that in a way beat mixing hails from Brooklyn, too.

I'm also Italian and a dj as well. I started in the late 70's but I know some people who were already spinning in 1970/1971. Local dj's were very good at beat mixing. Also, around 1976/1977 you would hear lots of mix shows on Italian private radio stations. Guys like Micky from Ciak, Jonathan Jan, Claudio Cecchetto were excellent mixers and, when Savarese came to Italy, his mixing skills disappointed quite a few local dj's.

Grand Wizard Theodore is recognized as being the first scratcher. He took Grandmaster Flash's ideas and techniques and brought them to a different level. And that occured sometime during the second half of the seventies.

Fiorenzo, what about Bob Day and Tom Sison? They were in Italy in the early 1070s, well before Savarese arrived there. When I interviewed Baldelli last year, he said that he had never seen mixing before Bob & Tom came to Baia as residents. He says they just segued records together before that. From what he told me, and also Mozart and Flavio Vecchi and others, they all learned from Bob & Tom.

[Giovanni]

Bob & Tom were residents at Baia from 74 to 77 playing classic Philly and disco. They created the myth of the Baia in Italy. Their style was simple but they were playing such a beautiful music!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have some old tapes of Bob & Tom from 1976 and their mixing technique is already well estabilished, but I also have tapes of Miki recorded in 76 at the Ciak and the style is the same.
They were using a lot of chop mixes but also blending on time over a drum break.

[QUINNY]

All rather academic. As I already stated, that those South American guys were mixing (i.e. blending and to some extent beat mixing) in '74 and by all accounts had been doing so for quite some time.
Personally I can't believe that Francisd Grasso was beat mixing in the late '60s/early '70s. Surely others would have tried to emulate him, so why not scores of others that could beat mix by the time Disco really arrived? No, the early 'mix' records and tapes were segues only.

[Fiorenzo]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

All rather academic. As I already stated, that those South American guys were mixing (i.e. blending and to some extent beat mixing) in '74 and by all accounts had been doing so for quite some time.
Personally I can't believe that Francisd Grasso was beat mixing in the late '60s/early '70s. Surely others would have tried to emulate him, so why not scores of others that could beat mix by the time Disco really arrived? No, the early 'mix' records and tapes were segues only.

I was too young to go clubs in the 60's and early 70's. Anyway, I was told by people like Nicky Siano that Francis was the first to beat mix in New York. I don't know how good or how bad he was. At Salvation II and eventually at the Sanctuary he was already mixing / blending records in 1968/69. Anyway, it's a matter of fact that Francis introduced a new mood for the music and that he is usually recognized as the godfather of modern deejaying. Francis also taught his skills to people like Michael Capello and Steve D'Acquisto.

If somebody has a different version or legend, I'm interested in reading it. I won't argue that some guys in Latin America were already mixing sometime during the same period. I'd be interested in having more information about it.

[Fiorenzo]

Originally Posted by ladyboygrimsby

Fiorenzo, what about Bob Day and Tom Sison? They were in Italy in the early 1070s, well before Savarese arrived there. When I interviewed Baldelli last year, he said that he had never seen mixing before Bob & Tom came to Baia as residents. He says they just segued records together before that. From what he told me, and also Mozart and Flavio Vecchi and others, they all learned from Bob & Tom.

I think that Giovanni has already given you a good answer about Bobby & Tom. Daniele Baldelli was an excellent dj and still is. Check out his Disco Cross compilations.

[Mixmachine]

Anyone has any detail info (TT model and mixer) that this early Djs (especially late 60's) were using? As far as I know belt driven without pitch control TT were the only thing available until the early 70's, and Pro mixers with cuing ability had to be special ordered or rigged/modified, therefore 'Beatmixing' back then would be an incredible accomplishment, blending, choping, seguing is more likely as even 'slip-cuing' was extremely difficult before direct drive TTs were readely available and/or affordable.

[passaro]

francis grasso

[Fiorenzo]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Anyone has any detail info (TT model and mixer) that this early Djs (especially late 60's) were using? As far as I know belt driven without pitch control TT were the only thing available until the early 70's, and Pro mixers with cuing ability had to be special ordered or rigged/modified, therefore 'Beatmixing' back then would be an incredible accomplishment, blending, choping, seguing is more likely as even 'slip-cuing' was extremely difficult before direct drive TTs were readely available and/or affordable.

The first DJ's would probably use varispeed Thorens TD125 (if I remember the right model, correct me if I'm wrong) and a Rosner mixer (Please find a picture here:http://www.paolopasquali.it/mancuso.htm)

[QUINNY]

There were varispeed record decks (like the Garrard 301/401?) back then with enough torque, but they were few and far between. The 401 was a broadcast turntable, built like a tank and good fun to use. They had an infinitely variable speed, so even a little nudge could mean a huge speed variation.

The first varispeed decks I came across were in Spain, in 1974. The standard of decks, mixers, amplification, lighting etc was light years ahead of anything I'd known about in the UK, but tended to be dominated by one or two companies.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Fiorenzo

I was too young to go clubs in the 60's and early 70's. Anyway, I was told by people like Nicky Siano that Francis was the first to beat mix in New York. I don't know how good or how bad he was. At Salvation II and eventually at the Sanctuary he was already mixing / blending records in 1968/69. Anyway, it's a matter of fact that Francis introduced a new mood for the music and that he is usually recognized as the godfather of modern deejaying. Francis also taught his skills to people like Michael Capello and Steve D'Acquisto.

If somebody has a different version or legend, I'm interested in reading it. I won't argue that some guys in Latin America were already mixing sometime during the same period. I'd be interested in having more information about it.

this was taken off the Club section here under the Limelight (Hallandale),I personally listened to DJ Bobbie Lumbardi many times BITD and he was a master by the time he arrived here, he was one of the first to introduce extended/complex "beatmixing" to the South Florida area in the mid 70's, I never knew any details of his background until I read this post from someone that according to the post was THERE at the time spining in NYC, as you can see the personal experiance related here varies from the Revisionist's tales of later years...

http://www.discomusic.com/clubs-more/3204_0_6_30_C/

"Bobby was a good friend of mine. He originally worked at two important clubs on Long Island during the very early days of the club scene. One was called Rum Bottoms and it hosted packed crowds of dancers that would normally come to see popular bands and Bobby worked the break sessions, keeping them dancing. He also worked one of the earliest Gay Clubs on Long Island called The Corral. He worked alone at that venue.
Bobby was the first DJ to use the Beats-Per-Minute method of mixing. He devised this method because he never used turntables, he used radio station type "carts". These "carts" had no rewind on them, if you missed your mix point, you would have to "fast forward" through the entire song to the original start point and begin your mix all over again. By that time the song playing would have run out, so it was a one-shot-only attempt to get the mix "right" on your first try. Bobby would choose a song that was just a bit faster than the one playing, so he could start it, wait until the newer song caught up to the song playing, then make his mix. Although it sounds crude by today's standards, at the time it was futuristic and very progressive. Back then, there were no Technics turntables, no slip-pads, nobody else synchronizing an incoming song with the song that was playing, Bobby was the innovator…….


Bobby was a mentor to two DJs that could be considered his protégées, me and Wayne Scott. In 1972, Wayne took one of the nights at Rumbottoms as I got the job at The Bijou, a very big Long Island club. Wayne also adopted the BPM method and eventually became the DJ at the famous New York nightspot The Flamingo."

Jackie of the Long Island Record Pool

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Fiorenzo

The first DJ's would probably use varispeed Thorens TD125 (if I remember the right model, correct me if I'm wrong) and a Rosner mixer (Please find a picture here:http://www.paolopasquali.it/mancuso.htm)

Originally Posted by Quinny

There were varispeed record decks (like the Garrard 301/401?) back then with enough torque, but they were few and far between. The 401 was a broadcast turntable, built like a tank and good fun to use. They had an infinitely variable speed, so even a little nudge could mean a huge speed variation

Those must to have been pretty dedicated DJs with long pockects to be able to obtain and pay for this expensive TTs in the early days of Discos (clubs) as the whole concept was experimental to say the least (and a risky business proposition), even in the mid 70’s most club owners were reluctant to invest in the expensive original Technics 1200mk and only highly motivated (by the emerging artform of beatmixing hence the need for the best equipment) skilled, dedicated and making good money DJs were able to personally obtain this extremely expensive commercial TT to use during their sets.
The Rosner mixer shown doen’t have a ‘phono’ plug, necessary for ‘beatmixing’ with any accuracy, Mancuso could have rigged the inputs with a separate Pre Amp and use headphones this way, but since he’s not known for and dislikes “beatmixing” I doudt it very much. And if Mancuso in NYC (were it all started) was using this primitive CUSTOM MADE Mixer in the early 70’s I doubt anyone in South America or any where else was ‘Beatmixing” in the late 60’s……….

[QUINNY]

MixMachine: But as others and myself have written before, there were thousands of well established discos in Europe, especially around the Mediterranean in holiday locations, that made good money and played non stop music (because of language limitations; hey, if you had English, French, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian, German etc in your audience, which language would make any sense to all of 'em?), albeit mostly segued or blended.
The money, the equipment and the affiliation to good American Soul, Funk & Dance music were there from relatively early on.

In 1974, in Marbella, there was a local radio station that broadcast some English speaking shows. One of these was where an English guy used to broadcast an hour show from a German Discotheque (KISS). What he mostly used to play were all that week's imports, straight from New York. Most of the time he'd be blending and segueing records with just a little speech in places, merely to identify them for the listeners.

[Fiorenzo]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

The Rosner mixer shown doen’t have a ‘phono’ plug, necessary for ‘beatmixing’ with any accuracy, Mancuso could have rigged the inputs with a separate Pre Amp and use headphones this way, but since he’s not known for and dislikes “beatmixing” I doudt it very much.….

Mancuso dislikes beatmixing nowadays. He would mix until the mid 80's. I don't know which mixer Grasso would use, but he would use one for sure! Also dj's like Terry Noel, who were active before Grasso was, would blend records using a mixer and that was around 1965/1966!

[djsonic]

it was in a movie called "Georgy Girl" from i think 1968?
theres a scene in the movie where everyones in a discotek
and therre are 2 GIRL DJ"S MIXING RECORDS!! i could not belive my eyes....check the movie for yourself,youll be amazed
truly sonc.