the very first disco song???

[The Boogie Doctor]

the first track to display both the technical and emotional attributes of what is called disco is undoubtedly 'girl you need a change of mind' by eddie kendricks (1972). this is widely recognised in most dj/dance music circles and networks as the first ever disco track.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by omordha

Disco Funk, I think you're right. The recording
I have of Catchee is on a collection and it says
'original artists', not 'original recordings'.
There's a Grass Roots song on there that I know is not
the original recording.

The weird thing is: I can't find the original
recording of Catchee anywhere. I don't remember it
from the 60s and all the recordings on the web are the
version I have. Was this really a hit in 1968?

I've never heard of it before. My guess is it wouldn't be as 'catchee' sounding as the discofied remake version. :)

Other early Philly tracks that could be considered disco include 'Stay With Me' by The Futures from 1972; 'Ruby Lee' / 'You Are My Sun Sign' by Nat Turner also from 1972

Disco Funk

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

"Zing went the strings of my heart" 1972. Trammps. This was a doo wop song from 1963. Thats the first strike against it. #2. Have you listened to this record lately? This sounds like typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco. It was remixed later in 1976 I think, to sound more disco-like, but the original 1972 version does not have enough disco elements to be even close IMO.

=========================
I agree this is a fuzzy area, and there will probably never be a "AAH there it is, the first Disco record" answer, but this one's not close.

I'm still going with The Philly sound as a big influence and the early uses of synthesizer as the beginnings. Somebody please listen to Pepper Box...by the Peppers 1973. And tell me thats not real Disco. First Choice/ Barry White/ Deodato......all sound like they were pretty close in 1973 to me.

Hi SuperGonzo -- The song "Zing!" as I said in my original post, dates from way beyond 1963 ! I'd love to know which other typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco." Is the '72 version THAT different from the '75 version? 'Pepper Box'...no....not even in the same room. A dancing pop record yes......and do sythesisers make a record 'disco' ? Maybe in certain parts of Europe yes. And as "Zing !" IS a Philly sound so thats fits nicely with your criteria!

Originally Posted by The Boogie Doctor

the first track to display both the technical and emotional attributes of what is called disco is undoubtedly 'girl you need a change of mind' by eddie kendricks (1972). this is widely recognised in most dj/dance music circles and networks as the first ever disco track.

Boogie Doctor - I know this one is often quoted as 'the first' but for the life of me I cannot work out why great record tho it is. Compare it to 'Zing!' and its obvious (to me at least !) why one is more 'Disco' than the other.

I have a feeling that it has been passed through time and legend and has become an automatic choice by default. But if this is 'the first'...why? When was it first cited as 'the first'? After Diana Ross' 'Love Hangover' was a hit perhaps? A listen to records made before 'Girl' brings forth other candidates and I feel that 'Girl' was first cited as 'the first' by people who simply didn't know what came before !
Has anyone mentioned Pattie Jo's version of 'Make Be Believe In You' yet? Or Curtis Mayfeilds 'Move On Up' ?



I'm going to throw The Soulful Strings 'Burning Spear' into the pot again...don't know it? I feel the theme to this Fridays 'Metropolitan Soul Show' coming on !

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by Simon White

A listen to records made before 'Girl' brings forth other candidates and I feel that 'Girl' was first cited as 'the first' by people who simply didn't know what came before !
Has anyone mentioned Pattie Jo's version of 'Make Be Believe In You' yet? Or Curtis Mayfeilds 'Move On Up' ?

I think out of all of the pre-Zing tracks that are the best candidates for disco, I'd have to say 'This World' by The Sweet Inspirations from 1970 is the best. Heck, Tom Moulton felt that its groove was discoey enough to put it slightly remixed onto Disco Trek in '75. I say slightly because the original sounds pretty much the same (I'm going by the mono mix), except for the instrumental section that was added to the Disco Trek mix. While 'I'm The One' by Little Sister has a similar groove as 'This World', it doesn't flow in a disco-like manner like TW.

Disco Funk

[SUPERGONZO]

"I'd love to know which other typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco."

Remember Happy Days?? Laverne & Shirley?? American Grafitti?? The Musical Grease??.... from 1972 - 1974..pre disco, Alot of radio stations were playing 50's music, there were concerts in Madison Square Garden in NY by Chuck Berry and others that sold as many tickets as Led Zeppelin did! "Zing" was a typical remake made by a group trying to cash in on this "oldies" craze... Great record...no not Disco

I do agree with you on The Eddie Kendricks record...also not the first Disco record and Kendricks had a more Funk vibe to most of his records if you ask me. Same goes for Curtis Mayfield....."Move on Up" also a remake...and a cute pop record but not Disco.

I am surprised at your opinion of Pepper Box!! Have you listened to this record lately?, I suggest you do right away. Synth sound yes, Danceable yes, Euro influenced certainly, Disco.... I'm gonna say YUP. Euro synth sounding or not, this was a NY based group, and a big hit in clubs here.
I know because unfortunately I AM old enough to have been there!!

[Simon White]

Hmmm don't dispute some of what you say the Supergonzo...the 'oldies revival' was in full swing at the time ( the first live gig I ever attended was August '72 in London...Little Richard (the reason I went !) Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Bill Haley etc , etc) but was that 'oldies revival' the reason it was recorded...and if it was, then why in the absolute Philly /Soul dance style and not as a straight cover?
The other 'revival' track on the 'Zing' album is 'Sixty Minute Man' , The Dominoes 50's hit, also done in a dance style...but not as obviously Disco as 'Zing!'. Neither are "a typical remake" at all.


"Move On Up" a remake and a cute pop song ? No and err....no !

Pepper Box.... I'll try and find it and listen again.

[SUPERGONZO]

Move on Up......remake???

Well technically your right this isn't a remake in the classic sense.
However Curtis Mayfield, was a writer for other artists long before he was even in the group the Impressions, which he left to go solo in the 70's.

Yes he did write "Move on up"....However he also wrote the song "hush now child" which happens to be a verse in the song "Move on Up" back in 1959 for Gene Chandler. That song uses much of the same melody and lyrics as "Move on Up" did 13 years later!!

Gene Chandler was best known for the song "Duke fo Earl" which he wrote.

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

"I'd love to know which other typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco."

Remember Happy Days?? Laverne & Shirley?? American Grafitti?? The Musical Grease??.... from 1972 - 1974..pre disco, Alot of radio stations were playing 50's music, there were concerts in Madison Square Garden in NY by Chuck Berry and others that sold as many tickets as Led Zeppelin did! "Zing" was a typical remake made by a group trying to cash in on this "oldies" craze... Great record...no not Disco

I do agree with you on The Eddie Kendricks record...also not the first Disco record and Kendricks had a more Funk vibe to most of his records if you ask me. Same goes for Curtis Mayfield....."Move on Up" also a remake...and a cute pop record but not Disco.

I am surprised at your opinion of Pepper Box!! Have you listened to this record lately?, I suggest you do right away. Synth sound yes, Danceable yes, Euro influenced certainly, Disco.... I'm gonna say YUP. Euro synth sounding or not, this was a NY based group, and a big hit in clubs here.
I know because unfortunately I AM old enough to have been there!!

Errr.... Supergonzo...it was you that said Move On Up was "also a remake", not me !

[SUPERGONZO]

Simon, I know. Possibly the choice of the word "remake" was a bad one by me. However I am trying to show that Curtis Mayfield essentially wrote the same song 13 years before. In either case Its NOT DISCO and doesn't belong in this thread.

Actually I think ....... I made the first Disco song back in 1969 on my first electric keyboard as a kid. Who can say different??

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

" Synth sound yes, Danceable yes, Euro influenced certainly, Disco.... I'm gonna say YUP. Euro synth sounding or not, this was a NY based group, and a big hit in clubs here.
I know because unfortunately I AM old enough to have been there!!

the peppers were french

[SUPERGONZO]

The Peppers were French!

Ha where did you get that from?? The label??

First off.....THERE ARE NO PEPPERS!!!
Pepper Box was a TV Commercial Jingle in the 70's. The producer Roger Tokarz kept rights to the song upon producing it for television. he then added a couple of studio musicians (one of them might have been French?) to fill out the rest of the melody. This song was to be recorded at his home recording studio in England (Bagatelle Studios), he then felt there wasn't enough sounds and or sound quality available at that location, and the recording was switched to NYC, at the Music Studios of the New York Times News corporation, where they produced commercial jingles for radio and TV. The song was inspired by "Popcorn" which was a huge hit earlier by Hot Butter....(also just a music producer..Moog...but thats a whole nother story).

Pepper Box was a hit around the world and released in 20 countries, including France where it reached Number 5 first and Before it actually was a hit in the US where it reached number 6. It THEN went up the charts in the UK (where it was actually conceived in the first place). It wound up selling over 3.5 million copies worldwide. The LP is very rare.

I could see how you can think they might have been French, But there are NO Peppers!! It was a TV Jingle in the US. And the record was made in a studio in NYC. Mr. Tokarz did produce disco records by the way througout the late 70's and early 80's and they were produced in France, Voyage was the name of the group. Voyage by the way was inspired by another TV commerical Jingle for a French Tour Guide company!! I believe the same musicians might have been used...I don't know??, probably all french guys by that time.

[SUPERGONZO]

Something that should answer THIS question that has been posed before on this forum::

What is the first 12" Disco Record:::

Tom Moulton Tribute @ Disco-Disco.com

[Simon White]

Seems like we've been sidetracked by the French / English / New York Peppers here !

To go back to the start.....whats the very first Disco song? Or....what's the earliest record that shows enough 'Disco' elements so that we can say 'This is the earliest 'Disco' record"?

Unless I'm reading it wrong, Mr Moulton's interview doesn't actually reveal the name of that at all...it just gives us clues...he tells what his first remixes are, it tells what the first commercially available 12" was it tells us what the first promotional 12" was and it tells us how the 12" came about. Which gives us Al Downing, Double Exposure, Moment Of Truth and Southshore Commission.

It tantalisingly says he went into the studio with a Trammps track and remixed/remastered it with Jose Rodriguez.
I wonder what that Trammps track was?

[SUPERGONZO]

I agree Simon, sidetracked a bit

Tom's interview talks about 12" er's which came out later than the 45's. And disco was already a phenom by then. The question what was the first Disco 12"?? occurs earlier in this thread or another one on this forum somewhere. He pretty much answers that one.

I loved the song "I'll be holding on"...by Al Downing...and back then remember it as one of my first early 12" er's and double sided 45's...but I guess it wasn't the first.

In any case Pepper Box...was made in 1973 a couple of years before any of the 12" stuff, or commercially produced 12" stuff anyway.
------------------------------
So back to square one. I still think Philadelphia sound should be given alot of credit for developing the sound into pop hits...But those producers certainly borrowed from somewhere else.....Pepper Box??

Who knows probably alot of influences

[Simon White]

Now you really have my attention...Al Downing on a 12" !
There's a scan of a 7" here - http://www.discomusic.com/records-more/8263_0_2_0_C/

Agrred Supergonzo, theres no question about the Philly thing in my opinion for sure...you can hear Gamble & Huff productions from 1968 and the sound is there in early form.

But we've said all this...back to Al !