the very first disco song???

[SUPERGONZO]

Donnie Van "Hold Back The Night "

This I don't think is the same song. The Trammps wrote "Hold Back The Night " in 1975 and it was released on Buddah records not Gamble. The only Donnie Van I ever heard of was Ronnie Van Zant's brother who was in the group Lynyrd Skynyrd. He had his own group 38 Special, but unless he had a Southern Rock Mutation take place I don't think its the same guy.


"Win, Place or Show" was not from 1970........its a 45 from 1972

I think we are all in agreement that Gamble and Huff and the Philly sound had alot to do with Disco, and they probably borrowed from earlier styles to create Disco as we recognize it. Its possible they were influenced by a Euro sound as well and melded it into American soul music to come up with their own brand of music.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

Donnie Van "Hold Back The Night "

This I don't think is the same song. The Trammps wrote "Hold Back The Night " in 1975 and it was released on Buddah records not Gamble.

The vocal version of that track wasn't released until '75 when Moulton put together the Legendary Zing LP, but the instrumental, which is 'Scrubboard' was put on the flip side of one of the 1972 singles. My guess is that they did record vocals for it, but for whatever reason, they or Buddah didn't feel it should be released as a single back in '72 or '73.

Disco Funk

[SUPERGONZO]

"The vocal version of that track wasn't released until '75 when Moulton put together the Legendary Zing LP, but the instrumental, which is 'Scrubboard' was put on the flip side of one of the 1972 singles."



Ahh Hah! Very Cool Disco Funk.. I still don't know who Donnie Van is?? I don't think he was ever a member of the Trammps??

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

"The vocal version of that track wasn't released until '75 when Moulton put together the Legendary Zing LP, but the instrumental, which is 'Scrubboard' was put on the flip side of one of the 1972 singles."



Ahh Hah! Very Cool Disco Funk.. I still don't know who Donnie Van is?? I don't think he was ever a member of the Trammps??

When I did a little digging, I found that his name is actually spelled Donnie Vann. His version of Hold Back The Night is a completely different song, done at a slow ballad tempo. Still another great example of the Philly soul sound circa the late 60s. I don't recall ever seeing his name amongst the Trammps on any of the album credits. He had other recordings later on, on labels like Dakar.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

In all this talk about the philly sound being the blueprint for the disco music that was to come later, I forgot to mention another progenitor of the disco dance sound c. 1972: The Fatback Band. In that year they released the single 'Street Dance' b/w 'Going To See My Baby'. Both tracks were proto-disco anthems! 'Street Dance' had the four on the floor beat going, but sadly no snare on the upbeat, while 'Going To See My Baby' had that bouncing/off-beat hi hat going throughout. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Earl Young took notice of the latter and decided to use that sound throughout a whole song rather than just the intros (e.g. Zing, and That's Where I'm Coming From), hence Waitin For The Rain.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

Here's another candidate for the earliest disco tune, again from the city of brotherly love. It's from the Soul Devalents, a group I think Bunny Sigler was a member of. I had this on 45 but for some reason it didn't click for me as an early disco tune until I heard it again recently. The track is Grasshopper:

Grasshopper

It was released on the North Bay label,which unfortunately, never printed dates. The guess is that it came out in 72. North Bay was discontinued around 72 or so.

It sounds like there might even be a little 4 on the floor on the drums too. This probably was before Sigler found Instant Funk as his backing band, so I'm guessing it's Earl Young on drums.

Here's the North Bay discography. You can see where it was released, which was before the Executive Suite and Little Dooley tracks which I think were credited also as being from 1972.

300 - MELLO MOODS - Tell Love Hello b/w If You See Him
301 - TALK OF THE TOWN - Little Bit Of Your Lovin' b/w Tossin' My Pride Aside
302 – FAMILY - Family Affair b/w Nation Time
304 – FAMILY - Robot (Do The) (Pt. 1) b/w Robot (Do The) (Pt. 2)
305 - TALK OF THE TOWN - Don't Be So Mean b/w Accept Me For What I Am
306 - SOUL DEVALENTS - Grasshopper
307 – VIBRATIONS - When Will My Turn Come b/w Sneakin'
308 - LITTLE DOOLEY - Memories b/w It's Got To Be Now Or Never
309 - EXECUTIVE SUITE - I'm A Winner Now b/w You Got The Kind Of Love
310 - LOUISE WILLIAMS - Don't The Children
311 - LOVE BROTHERS - Giddy Up b/w Bop De Doo Waw

Disco Funk

[SUPERGONZO]

I am starting to realize why your screen name is "Disco Funk". Because the vocal on that song has "Funk" written all over it. The background music is a cross between funk with some disco elements in it.
Since funk was popular around this time period 1972, I am going to say that was more of a traditional funk record with the begininngs of the disco sound starting to emerge. But I don't think that record is sound enlightening enough to be called the "First Disco Record". It sounds rather typical of the time period, yet has some progressive elements to it. Nice discovery though...cool

However like I said before, we could be chasing the Holy Grail on this, as we hear more of these records it become obvious the "Disco" sound evolved and was not instantly made one day, and this record is further proof of that.

[Disco Funk]

I totally agree, that there isn't really one song that is the first true true disco song, but it was a series of developments. For me, I think that more than 70% of that came from the Philly area.

Here's another track, which I think was recorded in the philly area, which is where the artist, who is Brenda & The Tabulations, was based. They did a number of truly philly dance numbers in '73, but this track from 72, while not specifically philly sounding, is a dance number that has a disco beat:

Little Bit Of Love

It was a Van McCoy composition, if I'm not mistaken. He would later record that tune with Faith Hope & Charity.

Disco Funk

[SUPERGONZO]

BTW , someone earlier brought up "Soul Makossa" by Manu Dibango as the first disco record. I responded by saying I was in Africa at the time, and heard it before it came to the states.

Well just to add a little more madness to the mix. There was a group called Afrique....who here in the US, came out with a version of Soul Makossa before Manu Dibango's original version was released here!! In fact it preceded Manu's original "Soul Makossa" by about 2 months in spring of 1973! However it stalled at number 47 on the Billboard charts and at that time the Manu Dibango original "Soul Makossa" was at number 49! And rapidly catching up. After this Afrique's version headed off the charts and Manu Dibango got his just deserts as his original version took off up to the top of the charts.

So in essence if you believe "Soul Makossa" was the first disco song (which I don't), it would be the cover version by Afrique that was released first here in the US, and NOT Manu Dibango's original hit.
================================================== =

I am going back to the Billboard charts in 1973-----1971 and looking for possible disco candidates. Other than Soul Makossa. The first real Huge True Disco hit has to be "Love's Theme" in late 1973. (Yeah Barry) There are a few relatively big hits before that such as the previously mentioned First Choice's "Armed and Extremely Dangerous" & "Smarty Pants"....but not many, some of the low chart entries, I cannot remember what they sound like, so I have to see if I have copies of them around to see if they fit the Disco bill.

[Simon White]

The UK label of Afriques version is here.

http://www.discomusic.com/records-more/11111_0_2_0_C/

The Pye label with silver type doesn't scan well unfortunately.

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

BTW , someone earlier brought up "Soul Makossa" by Manu Dibango as the first disco record. I responded by saying I was in Africa at the time, and heard it before it came to the states.

Well just to add a little more madness to the mix. There was a group called Afrique....who here in the US, came out with a version of Soul Makossa before Manu Dibango's original version was released here!! In fact it preceded Manu's original "Soul Makossa" by about 2 months in spring of 1973! However it stalled at number 47 on the Billboard charts and at that time the Manu Dibango original "Soul Makossa" was at number 49! And rapidly catching up. After this Afrique's version headed off the charts and Manu Dibango got his just deserts as his original version took off up to the top of the charts.

So in essence if you believe "Soul Makossa" was the first disco song (which I don't), it would be the cover version by Afrique that was released first here in the US, and NOT Manu Dibango's original hit.
================================================== =

I am going back to the Billboard charts in 1973-----1971 and looking for possible disco candidates. Other than Soul Makossa. The first real Huge True Disco hit has to be "Love's Theme" in late 1973. (Yeah Barry) There are a few relatively big hits before that such as the previously mentioned First Choice's "Armed and Extremely Dangerous" & "Smarty Pants"....but not many, some of the low chart entries, I cannot remember what they sound like, so I have to see if I have copies of them around to see if they fit the Disco bill.

[athenian1977]

If not Shaft then definetely the 7:30 treat "Girl you need a change of mind" by Eddie Kendricks on 1973...

[GYPSYDISCO]

I Like To Say Tina Charles Love To Llove Or Dance Littel Lady

[Huffstutler]

I know this is a topic that has been hashed out many times before and the results remain pretty much the same. At the same time a "first" can be as objective as "early" depending what the listener hears within a song.

For me I believe the overlooked "I'll Be Around" by the Spinners is a candidate and represents the Philly sound as well as having the disco riff beats. It also charted very early on the R&B charts - 10/28/1972.

Eric Huffstutler

[drlove]

I, for one, certainly agree with Huffstutler that 1972's "I'll be Around" has some early-disco instrumentation, as does the late fall 1972 hit by the Temptations, "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" (especially that lengthy intro), but for me, the earliest recording that had disco instrumentation would be the oft-mentioned "Theme From Shaft", from fall '71. However, for me, and I guess a more controversial choice, the first full-on disco hit from start to finish (featuring slow intro that later ignites, soaring strings, hi-hat drumming, and scorching vocals) ..... was fall of '73's "The Love I Lost" by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes (Teddy Pendergrass on lead vocals). That tune was a top 10 pop hit and R&B hit, and peaked on the charts before the gorgeous instrumental "Love's Theme" (also a full-fledged disco smash) finally hit # 1 in early 1974. Even to this day, my body & feet instinctively start moving when I hear The Love I Lost, and to think that Billboard FINALLY began tracking disco tunes a full 12 months later . . . all I can say it's about time, and we have to applaud those early disco tunes that paved the way

[Huffstutler]

I guess any way you slice it, the Kenny Gamble & Leon Huff Philly sounds will be the cornerstone of "early" and possibly "first" true full length discofied songs (though Bell and Hurtt did "I'll Be Around" - they had the same sound). True, there are songs that have certain tints of disco within them and you can say that is true with songs going as far back as the 1930s. Heck, I even heard a Polynesian tribal dance in an old 1930s movie have a disco beat; my back was turned away from the TV screen at the time and I had to do a double take of what I was hearing!

I have a couple of oddities to add if you want to be analytical about what has an early disco sound... don't think anyone has listed these yet so please comment

"Instant Karma" - John Ono Lennon 1970 (yes, he used Yoko's last name as part of his own then)
"Spirit In The Sky" - Norman Greenbaum 1969
"You're The One" - Little Sister 1970 (Sly Stone's sister who also played in his band) - seen on some early disco lists.
"Stoned Love / Up The Ladder To The Roof" - The Supremes 1970 (two songs from the new Supremes)

Do you see a 1970 year theme going on here?