the very first disco song???

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by omordha

Catchee by Ace Cannon. It was released in 1968 and you'd swear it was 1975. It's got all the hallmarks of mid 70s Disco. Yet, no one mentions this song as early disco. It was way ahead of its time. Check out a sample on Amnazon.

That's probably because they were re-recordings made in the 70s! I listened to three different music samples on allmusicguide, and they all sound like they were done in the 70s. This isn't unusual for artists who weren't making money off the original recordings, or the rights to the original tapes were locked up in legal red tape, to go back in the studio and record 'faux' original hits. By that, I mean, you'll buy a compilation of their greatest hits on some no-name label thinking it was the version you remember from back in the day, and its some recent re-recording instead.

Disco Funk

[omordha]

Disco Funk, I think you're right. The recording
I have of Catchee is on a collection and it says
'original artists', not 'original recordings'.
There's a Grass Roots song on there that I know is not
the original recording.

The weird thing is: I can't find the original
recording of Catchee anywhere. I don't remember it
from the 60s and all the recordings on the web are the
version I have. Was this really a hit in 1968?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

[/font]


I'll have to listen to the Four Tops track, but I do know that Date With The Rain didn't have a four on the floor element. It was just kick drum, snare, kick drum snare. Not kick drum, snare-kickdrum, kick drum, snare-kickdrum.

I think then my definition of "Four on the floor" is different from yours, I was under the impression that hitting the - drum - snare - kick drum on every beat constituted "Four on the floor".

Certainly Zing qualifies under my definition, so does "Date with the rain" certainly Bohannon, others faves with this early "Disco Music" beat was "Honey Please" Barry White and "I can't quit your love" by BT and TB a 1975 Philly release .

I'll have to check out that Four Tops track. Actually, Zing doesn't have 4 on the floor either. None of the Zing tracks do. The augmentation of the snare is done by hitting a tom drum on tracks like Rubber Band and Tom's Song. I think the first Philly track to have four on the floor is Waitin For The Rain. I haven't heard anything earlier than that.

The augmentation of the snare sound, like in "waiting for the rain" is of course a trade mark of the early Disco Music sound used on countless hits of the day as we all know, especially Philly hits, but if this sound constitutes "Four on the floor" , this is news to me, but then again, I'm not a musician, the little I know, I picked up by listening to records, not under any formal training.

I'm gonna check out the "Standing on the Shadows of Motown" DVD again, in there one of Motown's original Funk Brothers drummers recalls playing what he calls "four on the floor" for the first time in the Motown studio, but I don't remember the songs he mentions.

I don't count Bohannon as having the first or earliest four on the floor because he liked to hit the snare on every beat. To me, four on the floor was the enhancement snare on the upbeat only.

And I thought he was the "King" of "four on the floor"

I can see the argument that was it relevant today might not be relevant to people at the time. Discos were probably playing more James Brown than Philly in 1972. But that doesn't make the contribution of certain artists (in)significant, because someone took that sound, reworked it, took it again, reworked, and eventually came up with the prototype for the disco sound.

I think in my previous post I didn't make it clear that I meant "Obscure" at the time (early 70's) at the (re-)birth of Discotheques and Disco Music, and Paulo missed my point as a result.

I believe all "important" and potential club hit records of the day were used at the Discos back then, including lots of European records -- many of them not very memorable even though they were sold and played in the US---, and this are the club records that shaped the sound of Disco that came later in the 70's, to go around today digging up pseudo-Disco records from some old forgotten soundtrack or Porno flick that no one saw -- and/or didn't sell much-- and now try to say that this song was "influencial" is modern revisionist non-sense.

Originally Posted by Paulo

The problem is that it may be obscure today, but not back in the day. Disco wasn't born out of thin air. It derived from philly soul in the USA, but in Europe the influences were different.

The influences of late 70's Euro-Disco are very clear to me, Europeans added their "classical" symphonic music historical influences to a Disco beat, this Disco beat was in the early days more influence by "world" beats as you can find in many early European club record hits that invaded US discos from groups like like Barrabas, Titanic, Bimbo Jet, Equals, Banzai, Osibiza, Dibango (Africa-France), Black Soul, Black Blood, Gary Glitter, Crystal Grass ,Wall of Steel, Chocolats, (and many others), this Europeans group's sound had very little in common with what came to be associated later with the term "Euro-Disco", as a matter of fact , most US disco fans didn't know this music came from Europe at all.

[JussiK]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

I to go around today digging up pseudo-Disco records from some old forgotten soundtrack or Porno flick that no one saw -- and/or didn't sell much-- and now try to say that this song was "influencial" is modern revisionist non-sense.

This is what David Mancuso did, though, according to Last Night A Dj Saved My Life and according to himself he used to dig up all kinds of obscure sources of sound. Maybe he wasn't of influence to commercial djs as such but possibly helped to broaden minds of others. He still plays the stuff, too.

In Paris, djs used to dig into porno soundtracks and mix afro beats over them. maybe they influenced people like Moroder and Cerrone...?

[SUPERGONZO]

"Zing went the strings of my heart" 1972. Trammps. This was a doo wop song from 1963. Thats the first strike against it. #2. Have you listened to this record lately? This sounds like typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco. It was remixed later in 1976 I think, to sound more disco-like, but the original 1972 version does not have enough disco elements to be even close IMO.

=========================
I agree this is a fuzzy area, and there will probably never be a "AAH there it is, the first Disco record" answer, but this one's not close.

I'm still going with The Philly sound as a big influence and the early uses of synthesizer as the beginnings. Somebody please listen to Pepper Box...by the Peppers 1973. And tell me thats not real Disco. First Choice/ Barry White/ Deodato......all sound like they were pretty close in 1973 to me.

[The Boogie Doctor]

the first track to display both the technical and emotional attributes of what is called disco is undoubtedly 'girl you need a change of mind' by eddie kendricks (1972). this is widely recognised in most dj/dance music circles and networks as the first ever disco track.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by omordha

Disco Funk, I think you're right. The recording
I have of Catchee is on a collection and it says
'original artists', not 'original recordings'.
There's a Grass Roots song on there that I know is not
the original recording.

The weird thing is: I can't find the original
recording of Catchee anywhere. I don't remember it
from the 60s and all the recordings on the web are the
version I have. Was this really a hit in 1968?

I've never heard of it before. My guess is it wouldn't be as 'catchee' sounding as the discofied remake version. :)

Other early Philly tracks that could be considered disco include 'Stay With Me' by The Futures from 1972; 'Ruby Lee' / 'You Are My Sun Sign' by Nat Turner also from 1972

Disco Funk

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by SUPERGONZO

"Zing went the strings of my heart" 1972. Trammps. This was a doo wop song from 1963. Thats the first strike against it. #2. Have you listened to this record lately? This sounds like typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco. It was remixed later in 1976 I think, to sound more disco-like, but the original 1972 version does not have enough disco elements to be even close IMO.

=========================
I agree this is a fuzzy area, and there will probably never be a "AAH there it is, the first Disco record" answer, but this one's not close.

I'm still going with The Philly sound as a big influence and the early uses of synthesizer as the beginnings. Somebody please listen to Pepper Box...by the Peppers 1973. And tell me thats not real Disco. First Choice/ Barry White/ Deodato......all sound like they were pretty close in 1973 to me.

Hi SuperGonzo -- The song "Zing!" as I said in my original post, dates from way beyond 1963 ! I'd love to know which other typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco." Is the '72 version THAT different from the '75 version? 'Pepper Box'...no....not even in the same room. A dancing pop record yes......and do sythesisers make a record 'disco' ? Maybe in certain parts of Europe yes. And as "Zing !" IS a Philly sound so thats fits nicely with your criteria!

Originally Posted by The Boogie Doctor

the first track to display both the technical and emotional attributes of what is called disco is undoubtedly 'girl you need a change of mind' by eddie kendricks (1972). this is widely recognised in most dj/dance music circles and networks as the first ever disco track.

Boogie Doctor - I know this one is often quoted as 'the first' but for the life of me I cannot work out why great record tho it is. Compare it to 'Zing!' and its obvious (to me at least !) why one is more 'Disco' than the other.

I have a feeling that it has been passed through time and legend and has become an automatic choice by default. But if this is 'the first'...why? When was it first cited as 'the first'? After Diana Ross' 'Love Hangover' was a hit perhaps? A listen to records made before 'Girl' brings forth other candidates and I feel that 'Girl' was first cited as 'the first' by people who simply didn't know what came before !
Has anyone mentioned Pattie Jo's version of 'Make Be Believe In You' yet? Or Curtis Mayfeilds 'Move On Up' ?



I'm going to throw The Soulful Strings 'Burning Spear' into the pot again...don't know it? I feel the theme to this Fridays 'Metropolitan Soul Show' coming on !

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by Simon White

A listen to records made before 'Girl' brings forth other candidates and I feel that 'Girl' was first cited as 'the first' by people who simply didn't know what came before !
Has anyone mentioned Pattie Jo's version of 'Make Be Believe In You' yet? Or Curtis Mayfeilds 'Move On Up' ?

I think out of all of the pre-Zing tracks that are the best candidates for disco, I'd have to say 'This World' by The Sweet Inspirations from 1970 is the best. Heck, Tom Moulton felt that its groove was discoey enough to put it slightly remixed onto Disco Trek in '75. I say slightly because the original sounds pretty much the same (I'm going by the mono mix), except for the instrumental section that was added to the Disco Trek mix. While 'I'm The One' by Little Sister has a similar groove as 'This World', it doesn't flow in a disco-like manner like TW.

Disco Funk

[SUPERGONZO]

"I'd love to know which other typical "oldie" revival stuff that was popular around this time period in top 40. It certainly is not Disco."

Remember Happy Days?? Laverne & Shirley?? American Grafitti?? The Musical Grease??.... from 1972 - 1974..pre disco, Alot of radio stations were playing 50's music, there were concerts in Madison Square Garden in NY by Chuck Berry and others that sold as many tickets as Led Zeppelin did! "Zing" was a typical remake made by a group trying to cash in on this "oldies" craze... Great record...no not Disco

I do agree with you on The Eddie Kendricks record...also not the first Disco record and Kendricks had a more Funk vibe to most of his records if you ask me. Same goes for Curtis Mayfield....."Move on Up" also a remake...and a cute pop record but not Disco.

I am surprised at your opinion of Pepper Box!! Have you listened to this record lately?, I suggest you do right away. Synth sound yes, Danceable yes, Euro influenced certainly, Disco.... I'm gonna say YUP. Euro synth sounding or not, this was a NY based group, and a big hit in clubs here.
I know because unfortunately I AM old enough to have been there!!