How Important Were Gay Clubs To Disco Music?

[PaulC]

...

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by PaulC

Many of the worlds famous disco's were gay or mixed. How important were they to disco music?

Overall, I'm not sure they were as significant as many here may believe. The fact that many of the artists and producers were gay is of much more relevance, because what they did in effect was make records to suit the tastes of their friends. In that context, gay clubs may have had a slight advantage over their straight counterparts in obtaining product and those artists having a ready made audience to help boost itheir product's appeal. In the U.S at least, I guess the gay clubs did have a relatively important part to play. In the U.K. and other countries, they were in the minority and generally no-one outside took that much notice of them back in '76 - 79/80 did they? The fact that most of the hetero Brits who post here show their distaste of many 'pure disco music' tracks is a testament to that fact.
I'm sure the gay clubs were as good to their punters as the straight ones were to theirs. It was as much, if not more about meting up with the same people week after week that made any one club special to its patrons. The music was only part of the equation.
The mixed ones possibly had the best of both worlds........or did they?
I'm certain others will have a very different take on things, but that's my tuppence worth.

[markydefad]

As publicist Samantha (Kim Cattrall) told her young stud actor/ boyfriend/protege Smith Jerrod on last week's "Sex & The City"...

(after she had him photographed naked for an Absolut Vodka ad)....

"First the gays, then the women...THEN the industry comes"

So first gay guys notice/ogle him in a bar, then straight school girls mob him on a street corner....

The next week, director Gus Van Sant calls hime for the lead in his next movie...playing a model/hustler/heroin addict!!! :P

BUT..."FIRST the GAYS" :lol:

[paul]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

In the U.S at least, I guess the gay clubs did have a relatively important part to play. In the U.K. and other countries, they were in the minority and generally no-one outside took that much notice of them back in '76 - 79/80 did they? The fact that most of the hetero Brits who post here show their distaste of many 'pure disco music' tracks is a testament to that fact.

Thought provoking. Perhaps you can elaborate further on the point that straight Brits were less inclined to enjoy pure disco tracks?

[PaulC]

...

[QUINNY]

Paul: IMO, Discos in the UK were very much more into funkier music. Pure disco was just too straight (i.e it didn't swing or snap) and white (copyist) sounding. By 1976, we'd had a fairly long tradition of dancing to Black American music of many different genres as well as records from the Caribbean (Ska for instance from 1965/66/67). There were very, very few gay discos in the UK at the height of Disco music and so their influence would have been fairly non-existant. As a whole, the majority of Brits never bought into the pure disco experience, in quite the same way, or to such an extent, as our American cousins. We danced to a slightly different beat. Pure disco was simply considered too Kitsch and almost from a far distant planet. If you were to look at the U.K. charts from the era, you'd possibly have a big surprise.
There were exceptions of course, but generally that's the way I'd view it.

[paul]

Thanks Quinny.
So I guess to an extent this explains the less than enthusiastic appeal for "Cocomotion." A song like Kleeer's "Keep Your Body Workin'" I guess had a greater overall appeal there because of it's funkier beat.
What does kitsch mean?

[PaulC]

...

[jazz_pilgrim]

I would tend to agree with Quinny's points. Not only were discos in the UK into funkier music but also they were into a lot of jazzier music as well. In fact the whole cross section.

I cannot comment on the influence of gay clubs on the 70's scene in the UK, as there weren't any in Kent, as far as I recall.

BUT I have read quite a few books on the sources and developments of disco music in the US. One book that struck me particularly was a book written by Mel Cheren - one of the founders of West End records. He was an integral part of the New York gay disco scene. It is very interesting to note how many of hs records were very much
on the funkier side and became very popular with the British soul fraternity. One very good example is that of Raw Silk and Do It To The Music. He stated in his book how West End Records was going through a lean time, and how this record really took off in Britain, giving his record label's finances a welcome boost. He was very pleased by that.

So obviously, quite a few of the records coming out of the NY gay scene were winging their way across the Atlantic and having an impact on the British scene.

One final footnote. When I finally moved into South London in the mid 80's I developed a circle of clubbing friends which included a few gay people. And they were very much into the same funky jazzy sound that I was, as opposed to pure disco. Indeed, I went to one party in South London once, when my friend and I were the only straight guys there. And the music was simply the best - pure hard driving FUNK all night. Out of all the parties I ever went to in London, that was the best in terms of the music!

:)

[QUINNY]

Paul C: You're misquoting me AGAIN!!!!!!!! Please desist.
The gay rights movement was hardly started in the U.K. '76 - 79/80 and the openely gay population was miniscule. Just like Jazz, I was totally unaware of any gay clubs in my area. The gay issue was a total non event. That sounds to me, like they couldn't have had much influence on anything. Not until later.
Despite what you have written, the gay clubs were not the torch bearers for Black American dance music after the 'death' of disco. In my neck of the woods, we still rooted out the best tracks to play.

Paul: Kitsch means oh!, worthless, (slightly) tacky, pretentious and especially in the context of these boards and disco music, something that just sounded like a wrong'un.

[jazz_pilgrim]

Originally Posted by PaulC

Also, unlike the straight clubs, they continued to play disco after the backlash. (As I beleive they did in American gay clubs).

I presume by backlash, I assume you mean the 'Disco Sucks' event that took place in America in 1979 where a bonfire of 12-inch singles was burned.

If so, then your statement that the straight clubs did not play disco was not true. Certainly not in London. Before I moved in to London, the clubs in Kent were still spinning those 4/4 disco beats. We used to make frequent trips up into London as well. My favourite discos were in the Old Kent Road at the time.

When I moved into London in 1984 the disco/soul/funk scene there was absolutely massive. Fuelled by the explosion of the London pirate soul stations. I remember going to the Best Disco in Town in the Lyceum, which ran from 78/79 right through until around 1985. That was a massive venue - it could plack a lot of people in. When Greg Edwards stopped doing the Best Disco in Town night, the soul pirates simply took over.

What about the Fatback Band - I Found Lovin'. At the time, it seemed that you couldn't turn a street corner without hearing this belting out from somewhere. And Gwen mcCrae? And Rose Royce? And Carl Anderson?

And what about the mid 80's rare Groove scene? A lot of excellent 70's disco records got a new lease of life as a new upmarket crowd picked up on some of the 70's favourite and some rare disco tunes were played for the first time. At the centre of this scene was, of course, the excellent Norman Jay. How influential has he been over the years?

Of course this was when the Hi-NRG scene really took off. And Heaven and such clubs were really massive. Agree with you totally on that 100%! Some of theose tunes made it into our clubs as well - stuff like Eartha Kitt ...Very good tunes they were too!

But there was no doubt about it - in the London "straight" clubs, disco and funk and soul and jazz dance music was still to be found aplenty.


:)

[PaulC]

...

[QUINNY]

Paul C: May I remind you that London only accounts for about 12% of the population of England and Southampton is a relatively large city (the biggest on the south coast). Therefore my provincial experience was probably similar for a good 70% of the population, if not more. To me and I would imagine to most of my contempories the gay issue was a total non event.
Hell, even when I played in Marbella in '74-'75 with approximately 14% of the resident population being gay, it didn't have any influence on my life or others whatsoever. This was before gay rights and all that it brought forth.
BTW: I did play in the West End of London, in 1980, for a year, and I visited loads of clubs too in that time. There was no obvious gay influence, so far as I could see and everywhere was dancing to a funky,jazzy,disco beat.

[zeca azevedo]

:D

[paul]

Hey Zeca.
I hear ya. I look at it basically the same way.