Disco Charts: Were They Fixed? (Billboard, Record Mirror...)

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by kdavid13

Reminds me of when RECORD MIRROR stopped publishing the Hi-NRG chart because of a situation with Ian Levine...

I honestly know very little about this story. (I was one of Dean Furgeson's Hi-NRG Reporters, for Dance Music Report aka Dance Music Authority. So I didn't really pay attention to other Hi-NRG charts.) And I was fairly good professional-amigos with Ian.

Bring me up-to-speed?

[Adrian Scott]

I remmember that back at the height of the jazz funk boom James Hamilton reviewed a non existant record in Record Mirror and sure enough it appeared on a load of chart returns the following week! Charts should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[disco-disc]

Well Adrian, You open up a whole can of worms there, what with the 'London Mafia' DJ's when they tried to make 'Jazz Funk' take over from Disco. This was a bad period for me, as the music just wasn't my scene, and became too 'nice'

But well done Stephen for this insight, and the RSO facts.....although Barry L (RIP) did always pride himself, and Tom, for being honest with their chart reporting,he did mention that there were 'Weightings' applied by 'someone' to the chart reporting system.

[onthebeat]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

Here's the deal... It's a bit more complicated than I remembered, but I'll try to keep the explanation simple....

Very interesting in deed... thanks for all the information.

Lets also remember that at this time Payola was in full swing as well. Payola is were the radio stations would get payed for playing songs... More exposure... More Sales... Bigger place on the charts. For the most part this was happening in major market stations, but helped the record company's sell lots of records. just my .02...

Kindest Regards,

Jerry

[disco-disc]

This sort of thing goes on in ALL businesses, to one degree or another by the way....
But it would be interesting to know which side of the fence Billy Smith fell, he was 20th Century guy, and gets LOTS of mentions back in the day. I will give him the benfit and say he was an active proponent of Disco music but did anyone know or have dealings with ?

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by disco-disc

...although Barry L (RIP) did always pride himself, and Tom, for being honest with their chart reporting,he did mention that there were 'Weightings' applied by 'someone' to the chart reporting system.

I must add that the RSO situation was within the HOT 100 SINGLES chart. And I agree that, for the most part, the charts were calculated properly. But, at some point, no one is immune to money. And there was LOTS of it being thrown around, towards anyone with radio/chart influence.

Considering Wardlow created the Disco Chart, I can't see that he wouldn't treat his baby, any less hands-on (or, hands-in), than the established charts. (Remember that he oversaw them all.) I'd venture to say that, by mid-1977, the Top 5 of either chart was suspect to some manipulation.

[markydefad]

In Dayna's interview with Tom Moulton [which I cannot open here for some reason--but I read Tom's quote yesterday at work] Moulton said the disco charts were on the up and up during the time he was writing his column. He also says he visited the retailers on a weekly basis and carefully compiled the data in the early years...what happened after that he can't vouch for...which implies that they weren't so clean later on That's a paraphrase. If someone else wants to get the quote that would be great.

[update: God bless the child that adds his own:

9-(Dayna)-Do you know how the Billboard charts were calculated, who actually did this? And which cities charts were given more weight in the calculation besides the obvious New York and L.A.?

(Tom Moulton)- The Disco charts when I was doing them were compiled from DJs playlists and sales. I was doing them in the beginning and like everything else that becomes successful people will always try to corrupt it and ruin it. I went to all the stores and knew what they were asking for and buying. I knew what the clubs were playing. That was in the beginning. I can't say what happened after I left. Honest people and the music business are always at odds. People seem to like the sugarcoated Bullshit more then the truth where as the truth a lot of the time is just boring.

[Since Bernie did the updates I can't open the record vault files either...]

Anyway, Barry Lederer, who succeeded Moulton in writing the "Disco Mix" column for Billboard gives some information about how the charts were compiled in his interview with Hotdiscomix from Germany...from Hotdiscomix's website:

hotdiscomix :: Barry Lederer :: Interview

When and how did Billboard’s disco section start?
Barry Lederer: Both myself, Tom Moulton, and Mel Cheren introduced Bill Wardlow, then editor of Billboard, to put a disco section in the magazine. After visiting the clubs in New York and at the Island, he was more than impressed with the influence and excitement of disco. Some weeks later, Tom Moulton started a Disco Mix column, that I took over after several years.


hotdiscomix: In what period of time did you write for the Billboard magazine, especially the “Disco Mix” column?
Barry Lederer: From 1976-1982 — 6 years that were a great time to write as disco was at its peak, and during which I met so many people, both artists and DJs. Though there was always someone who wanted to be treated special, I never gave in. I felt that once it gets around that you take favors, your respect is lost. I mostly tried to expose the audience to new music that was great for the dance floor and keep my column up-tempo and positive. However, if a group that was known failed, I felt it necessary to mention it, as it was news also.

[Markydefad: I have a question about the timeline since the "Disco Mix" column byline is credited to Tom Moulton into 1977...was Barry Lederer actually writing the columns?...I've got columns into early 1977 and they all say "by Tom Moulton.' Anyone know?..Or was he a reporter for Billboard starting in 1976 and only taking over the "Disco Mix" column later in time?]


The format of the disco column included: first, a review of new disco releases; second, a compilation of the sales charts from important record shops. The column also had club play charts, at first from New York DJs and, with time, from DJs all around the U.S.A.

As Tom Moulton can attest, this column was read by all in the music business. The DJs looked to them to discover what was hot. The column, just like a New York Times theatre review, could make or break it for an artist. I must say that both Tom and I never abused this privilege, though it was set before us so many times. Once you give into temptation, you are listed. I did what I had to do, sometimes giving the smaller label a little more of a review. My point of view was that if it was a record I would play, I would give it a heads up. If it was from an established group and didn’t live up to expectations, I would say so.

Two other publications at this time were Cashbox and Record World, that eventually ceased publication due to Billboard’s success. The magazine kept up with the times and included charts in Hip Hop, videos and video games. It is considered a standard in the industry and has its own award show each year with honors going to groups that were on the charts the longest.


hotdiscomix: Were you involved in the drawing up of the weekly Billboard Disco Charts?
Barry Lederer: No. That was done by my boss. However, he did offer some interesting insight into the Disco charts. There was a specific number of Billboard reporters across the country. It was an honor to be one of these, and I was lucky to have this recognition when I played at Fire Island. Each DJ was given a number from one to ten according to how influential his club was. When each DJ turned in his Top 10 or Top 25, [markydefad: the correct number is 15--at least that's what was printed] each song was then rated by Billboard. If you were a ten, then your songs were given that number. As for sales, it was initially based on several major outlets in New York City. It eventually expanded across the country. Now sales are based on SoundScan.

[ Markydefad: Having plowed through the minutia of the first 2 years of Billboard charts, I can see the influence of certain cities--especially New York--as getting preference on the Billboard city charts. If anything charts in the New York city chart Top 15--it usually gets mentioned in the Top 40... from my perspective, LA, SF, Boston, Baltimore-DC, Miami, and Chicago would appear to be the other "favored" chart cities... their opinion appears to be valued more than the charts from the likes of Denver and Seattle...and with good reason, if you've been paying attention!!!]


I have no doubt that payola from record company promo people was a factor in getting airplay and chart position jockeying. That's pretty well documented. As Stephen mentioned, the Hot 100 Pop chart was the golden ring that most were reaching for--#1 on the POP chart was the goal in most cases. That was the biggest prize...thus far, I don't see a whole lotta of "tampering" in the disco chart...the numbers at the top of the chart usually add up to how Billboard city charts compile them...of course, "tampering" could have taken place on that level also...but I think the disco charts were not the main emphasis of the payola scandal. For the record, the "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack never achieved #1 on the Disco chart--it peaked at #3...so RSO didn't get their way in that area.

[Bernie]

Originally Posted by markydefad

In Dayna's interview [which I cannot open here for some reason--but I read his quote yesterday at work]

[Since Bernie did the updates I can't open the record vault files either...]

Don't understand why you can't see these pages. Please send me a detailed PM giving me your operating system+version, browser+version and what you mean by "can't open" them. Thanks.

For those that want to read the complete interview with Barry Lederer please click on the following link: Barry Lederer of Graebar Sound () | Disco Music.com

and the complete interview with Tom Moulton by our very own Dayna: http://www.discomusic.com/people-more/12494_0_11_0_C/

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by markydefad

#1 on the POP chart was the goal in most cases. That was the biggest prize...thus far, I don't see a whole lotta of "tampering" in the disco chart...the numbers at the top of the chart usually add up to how Billboard city charts compile them...of course, "tampering" could have taken place on that level also...but I think the disco charts were not the main emphasis of the payola scandal.

Agreed, completely...thus far

And I can't see Tom, or Barry, as dishonest, in any way. But, as Barry said: he didn't put the actual charts together. Wardlow did. (At least, until 1983, when Noonan took over.) The real promotional-push wasn't on the columnists. It was directed at the charts themselves. In all I've read from Tom and Barry, they can only attest to the credibility of the Disco Mix column.

Payola was geared more towards radio play than anything else. But, by 1978 - 1979, Disco had one of, if not the largest share of the market. In the end, execs weren't terribly concerned with what people said about a release. Just how it fared against the competition. That comes from my own experience with releases I've been connected to. I remember Duncan Finlayson, of Loading Bay Records, telling me, when I was concerned about less-than-kind reviews of my first production: "Who cares about reviews? The numbers are great. F*#k the reviews!" (He also managed to stiff me on any royalties. I produced a track that went Top 3. Yet I managed to lose $3000 - $4000 in the process! It can be an ugly business, on any level.) On the flip-side: I once received a nasty review on one of my Hot Tracks projects. I didn't deserve it and the mix didn't deserve it. (As they say: "Those who can, do. And those who can't, critique." And this queen was out-to-get-me!) Hot Tracks was a big advertiser for the magazine, so my boss called-up and asked the to have the song re-reviewed by someone else. They did and it was positive. My point being, if this stuff happens on the Remix-Service and Import 12" levels, you can best believe it happened / happens on the National level. (The level of integrity within the industry, certainly doesn't rise, with the level of notoriety.)

And, as you said Marky, "the numbers at the top of the chart usually add up to how Billboard city charts compile them...of course, "tampering" could have taken place on that level also..." The Billboard Reporting DJs, especially when Disco was the big sell for the major labels, were constantly flooded with free-crap and favors from promoters, to push particular records. In Miami I saw it all the time with the guys I knew, who were reporters, from 1980, through the early 90's. With an obvious slow-down, in the late 80's, after the indictments. (For awhile there, you were lucky if a promoter gave you colored vinyl, or a custom slip-mat! We did custom, picture-frame clocks for Donna's "Another Place & Time" LP.)

I'm not saying the Disco Charts were bogus. In the beginning? Far from it. But I can't believe that, from late 1977 thru 1979, with the industry flooding the market with Disco product, that the Disco Chart, itself, was immune from promotional influence. It ceased to be that little 1-page column, and, by 1978, grew into an entire section of the magazine. With complete issues devoted, solely to Disco. And the creation of the Billboard Disco Forums, and Awards. Billboard's Disco Chart grew worthy of considerably more industry attention than any other chart, besides the Pop Hot 100. And, as much as we all love and appreciate it, like it or not, Disco was seen and cultivated by the industry as a hype-driven genre. Not a talent-driven one.

Taking into context the painstaking, meticulous work you've put into re-creating these charts (I've said it before... you amaze me with this!!!)... And the site's membership following along, behind you, posting comments and inquiries, on subjects like The Supreme's demise on the chart...when "Love In C-Minor" will show-up...who had the first "Daylight"...the first Hijack" etc. Remember that our collective industry-focused microscope is still set upon the salad-days of Disco. Following that step-by-step course, we have another year to go, before the whole thing explodes, worldwide. It becomes about so much more than the music.

[markydefad]

I agree with your points, Stephen.

When disco had those two back to back #1 hits in the summer of 1974, "Rock The Boat" and "Rock Your Baby"--record companies thought disco was their new "cash cow." 1975 continued the trend of crossing KC The Sunshine Band, Silver Convention, Donna Summer, etc. over to the top of the Pop charts. But since that heady rush, a lot of 1976 was spent complaining in Billboard about how the disco records were NOT crossing over...to the point where some insiders were wondering if disco was dead!!! I have an article from Billboard celebrating their 2nd anniversary of disco in July, 1976--calculated from the dates those two "Rock" records hit #1--that documents this train of thought. It is transcribed in full within the July, 1976 chart thread.

However, the "cash cow" is down the road...so by the time 1978 rolls around...as Stephen stated, "disco" becomes a major player in the music industry in terms of mainstream sales and airplay and much more subject to manipulation and corruption from the record companies seeking bragging rights and $$$$$$$$$ from #1 hits and airplay.

Interesting side note. to me anyways....the guy who took over computing the charts from Wardlow, as Stephen mentioned, was Tom Noonan. The talent agency I work at represented his daughter as an actress back in the early days I worked there. Her name was Kerry Noonan...and I believe she's probably married with children and doing something else now...but she was a sweet girl. I always wanted to ask her about what her dad did--but now I don't recall whether that subject ever came up. By the late Eighties, I was less interested in music and more interested in movies and TV. Now its flipped again.