Plato's Retreat..Love it or Hate it?

[Videoskooter]

Originally Posted by JussiK

We also went to the Show World where they apparently had private shows available featuring a woman with a live male chimpanzee. Those were the days or what.

Thank you for the very detailed description of the Plato Club.

Here's some pages you'll like to read:

Jeremiah's Vanishing <br>New York: Show World
After Eluding Past Attempts, Show World Is Closed Down - New York Times

[JussiK]

Thanks due mila VSCooter for the link - there was a YouTube clip attached to the article that almost made me cry. When I get old and senile I hope I'll be transported back there in my mind, forever to loiter on the sidewalks in front of The New Amsterdam cinema where "Trap Them And Kill Them" is playing, nervously changing direction while WKTU disco music blasts from the cars sliding by. Sigh. - I sent the address of the vid to Ms Maitland McDonagh in New York, a leading connoisseur of Times Square mystique and a true expert on all the films that screened there during the golden years. On occasion, we get together and talk quietly of the Deuce ( Times Sq&immediate surroundings). Maitland used to haunt the cinemas night after night and has amazing tales to tell. I myself only got to sort-of trouble once during a film, when people kept yelling at a mother with a noisy small child to take her critter away. The woman got up, pointed a gun around and screamed she'll blow everybody away. I ducked between the seats into the slime and filth, and crawled towards the exit while people ran into all directions. No shots were fired, though, and when I got to the street the police were already coming in.
YouTube - Times Square 1970

Now of course, every last thing that made the once mighty New York great is completely and utterly destroyed and gone. No reasons to visit. Luckily in Europe, we still have places like The Ambra cinema in Milano.

[dancer5612004]

It reminds me of that same era of Loleatta Holloway's CATCH ME ON THE REBOUND and Jimmy Bo' Horne 12" dance hits. It's not really top on my list thoiugh, but I remember it.

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by dancer5612004

It reminds me of that same era of Loleatta Holloway's CATCH ME ON THE REBOUND and Jimmy Bo' Horne 12" dance hits. It's not really top on my list thoiugh, but I remember it.

Very few of the records we discuss on this site are top of anyone's list.

Why wasn't Jimmy Bo Horne more popular than he was? His grooves were infectious, generally happy sounding and could be wickedly funky. Maybe he was just the wrong side of commercial.

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

I'm surprised it never had a UK release

but it did

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by DISCODISK

but it did

Then tell that to Ashley or whoever it was who said it didn't. I was querying the statement NOT making a statement. I wouldn't know about a Uk release 'cos I have the US copy, which I bought on import.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Okay... Did a little homework.

Joe Thomas was/is a flutist (and tenor-sax player), much moreso than a vocalist, (hence, the flute carrying the melody through much of the track), while the vocals are studio session BVs. His recordings from 1974 thru 1979, were produced by Sonny Lester.

Sonny Lester started producing jazz, blues and easy-listening back in the 50's. And his "LRC Records" was a sub-label of TK, that he formed when his distribution contract with Pickwick, ran out in 1976. (Thomas had a couple previous LPs from 1974 on Lester's "Groove Merchant" label.)

Thomas' previous 12" (Polarizer), as well as the b-sides of "Plato's Retreat" & "2 Doors Down" are funky, disco-jazz instrumentals. All written and arranged by Lance Quinn and Brad Baker. (Remember those names? You should...)

The credits on Thomas' 2nd and 3rd Groove Merchant, as well as the first 3 TK LPs, are the same as a Gloria Gaynor, MECO, Caress, or Camoflague LP, of the same period. Lance Quinn, Brad Baker, Tony Bongiovi, Alan Schwartzberg, Randy Brecker, Lou Delgado, Babbit... and a somewhat familiar name - Domenic Menardo (Albeit, only involved as a member of the horn section.)

Thomas (like Gaynor, MECO, Camoflague, Caress, etc...) was backed by the whole NYC Disco production gang, that was crankin' out hits from 1974 - 78. Which might explain why "it sounds like something else...but I can't place it" comes into play.

[DISCODISK]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

I wouldn't know about a Uk release 'cos I have the US copy, which I bought on import.

...but you never bought imports because you thought they were too expensive... oh no it looks like quinnys d.j career is getting 'airbrushed' again

[QUINNY]

More importantly, so afr as I'm concerned (if I'm correct), it's the same Joe Thomas who plays brilliant sax on both Mike T's Do It Anyway You Wanna AND (I'm presuming, as it's stylistically very similar and a Mike T production) Do You Wanna Dance by Lavias. Both records are absolutely shit hot dancers in the funkier disco idiom, from the early '80s!!!!

[needlefingers]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

Which might explain why "it sounds like something else...but I can't place it" comes into play.

I have to say the melody does have hints of More Love by Smokey Robinson & The Miracles.

And the intro, oddly enough, reminds me of the intro into Disco Lucy by The Wilton Place Street Band.

But yes, with many of the same production teamwork, I can hear that too.

I did not hear this song in Germany, but did hear it when I came back home in the fall of '79. And while I liked it, and still do, it's time had peaked already.

[QUINNY]

Originally Posted by DISCODISK

...but you never bought imports because you thought they were too expensive... oh no it looks like quinnys d.j career is getting 'airbrushed' again

DD: I bought some imports. I just didn't exclusively buy imports as I couldn't afford to. So NO airbrushing has taken place. Shall I go through the trouble of getting the disk out of storage, making a label copy and post it up here for you? I expect I have my name written on the label, just to prove it's mine.

It would take several hours out of my day, but if it made you believe me a little more and not have such a totally unjustified downer on me, it might be worth it.

[remicks]

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*****

[remicks]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

Okay... Did a little homework.

Joe Thomas was/is a flutist (and tenor-sax player), much moreso than a vocalist, (hence, the flute carrying the melody through much of the track), while the vocals are studio session BVs. His recordings from 1974 thru 1979, were produced by Sonny Lester.



Thomas' previous 12" (Polarizer), as well as the b-sides of "Plato's Retreat" & "2 Doors Down" are funky, disco-jazz instrumentals. All written and arranged by Lance Quinn and Brad Baker. (Remember those names? You should...)

The credits on Thomas' 2nd and 3rd Groove Merchant, as well as the first 3 TK LPs, are the same as a Gloria Gaynor, MECO, Caress, or Camoflague LP, of the same period. Lance Quinn, Brad Baker, Tony Bongiovi, Alan Schwartzberg, Randy Brecker, Lou Delgado, Babbit... and a somewhat familiar name - Domenic Menardo (Albeit, only involved as a member of the horn section.)

Thomas (like Gaynor, MECO, Camoflague, Caress, etc...) was backed by the whole NYC Disco production gang, that was crankin' out hits from 1974 - 78. Which might explain why "it sounds like something else...but I can't place it" comes into play.

Good info ....
And Quinny was spot on when he commented :

It has a certain zip and class. In a similar mould Starcruisin' by Greg Diamond's Starcruiser, which I probably like better.

.... perhaps you said that Quinny because you were well aware that Brad Baker , the co- arranger/conductor of PLATO'S RETREAT, is the same arranger as on the Gregg Diamond and the Bionic Boogie releases .

That being the case why didn't PLATO fair as well (a mid-sized hit) as the Bionic Boogie stuff?

I think for a couple of reasons . First, it was a mixed bag of a composition .... the Joe Thomas parts were flutey hustle components ( and dated sounding by 1978) , while the more contemporary Chic-ish vocal parts were urging everyone to get up and freak . Freaking was a more funky free-style way to dance and hustling was syncopated dancing for couples. I think its safe to say dancers chose songs in which to dance specifically one way or another... not to do both jumbled up into one ... ...

Secondly the song is only about 1:50 in total length which is then looped and played three times (with a most irrelevant break lodged between its second and third run) ... such that so little a song looped so tightly meant the song got old real fast...

Still its terrific Brad Baker stuff (he being the successful key ingredient of Gregg Diamond's output ?) .... however limited a composition ....
I'm wondering if it was perhaps some sort of discard from the Bionic Boogie projects .... a piece tossed over Joe Thomas' way from Brad Baker whom worked closely with Joe on many projects through the seventies ....


(The intro is nice ...a bit COPACABANA -ish??? I'd like a mix between the two ...)



*****

[ashley]

.. sorry everyone .. I was wrong .. "Plato's Retreat" did get a U.K. release .. but only as a 7" 45 rpm single ..

.. they say the first thing to go is the memory ..

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by remicks

Good info ....
And Quinny was spot on when he commented :

.... perhaps you said that Quinny because you were well aware that Brad Baker , the co- arranger/conductor of PLATO'S RETREAT, is the same arranger as on the Gregg Diamond and the Bionic Boogie releases .

That being the case why didn't PLATO fair as well (a mid-sized hit) as the Bionic Boogie stuff?

Freaking was a more funky free-style way to dance and hustling was syncopated dancing for couples. I think its safe to say dancers chose songs in which to dance specifically one way or another... not to do both jumbled up into one .

Still its terrific Brad Baker stuff (he being the successful key ingredient of Gregg Diamond's output ?) .... however limited a composition ....
I'm wondering if it was perhaps some sort of discard from the Bionic Boogie projects .... a piece tossed over Joe Thomas' way from Brad Baker whom worked closely with Joe on many projects through the seventies ....

Well... Sort of. But not really...

Brad Baker arranged Gloria Gaynor's "Most Of All" for Greg Diamond, as well as the "Bionic Boogie" LP with "Dance Little Dreamer". But he wasn't involved in the subsequent "Starcruiser", or "Hot Butterfly" releases. They were arranged by Godfrey Diamond. Also, though he did arrangements for Diamond, he didn't do any writing for him. He performed both duties for Thomas. So there wouldn't have been any Baker projects to "toss over" to Thomas, from Bionic Boogie.

"The Freak" was a definite dance move as was "The Rock", shortly thereafter. (They were opposite physical movements from each other. The Freak being a alternating back-an-forth of the shoulders an hips. While the Rock was a side-to-side of the hips and arms, in unison.) And people danced however they wanted, to whatever they wanted. I never came a cross a dancefloor that was solely one style, or another. Particularly, due to any particular song. (At least, until New Wave came along.) For example: I remember doing the Freak to "Instant Replay", on Fire Island. And my b/f at the time, won a Hustle contest with his dance partner to the same song.