Identify the Style

[discophil]

Hi friends!

Got a question for you. Next to hardcore disco (John Davis; Cerrone; etc.) my favorite sound is represented in the following tune:

South Shore Connection's "We're On The Right Track Now"

I need some help. How would you classify songs like this? It's not quite just plain 70's R&B/Soul. Sounds sort of like Philly (which I ADORE), but is that what it is? I'd like to find more, more, more songs like this ("I'll Always Love My Mama", etc.)

(Sample of the song here in case you don't know this particular tune: South Shore Commission We're On The Right Track - Song - MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music)

[SandraDee]

Originally Posted by discophil

South Shore Connection's "We're On The Right Track Now"

I'm only familiar with the one by Ultra High Frequency but yes, it is very Philly or early Salsoul I'd say.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by SandraDee

I'm only familiar with the one by Ultra High Frequency but yes, it is very Philly or early Salsoul I'd say.

Ditto, here. The Ultra High Frequency track is early Scepter Records, out of New York. And South Shore Commission did "Free Man", on Wand Records (as I recall), which was a sub-label to Scepter.

Both tracks had Tom Moulton & Mel Cheren's influence all over them.

[The Boogie Doctor]

It's classic Philly soul, not yet disco in my opinion.

[thommy2458]

Phil-Try "Welcome to the Club"/Blue Magic,"Send Nobody Else/Ace Spectrum,the whole Disco Gold LP,
No Way Back/The Dells,anything by Ecstacy,Passion and
Pain....


Thom

[Disco Funk]

Pure and unadulterated Philly soul disco. It was produced by Stan Watson and/or arranged by Norman Harris, if I'm not mistaken. The same backing track was recycled for South Shore Commission's remake 2 years later in '75. I think the SSC album featured different backing tracks by different groups. The main session guys were Instant Funk produced by Bunny Sigler, then there was the Ultra High Frequency backing track version with Baker Harris & Young on rhythm, and lastly, some other producer that did the remainder of the tracks like 'I'd Rather Switch Than Fight', which sounds different from the Philly session guys (Instant Funk was also philly).

UHF had another single called 'Incompatible' that had a similar instrumental arrangement to 'Right Track'. Pretty much anything out of Philadelphia between '72 to '76 had that same 'classic' philly disco sound. You can hear it in a more jazzy feel on Gamble & Huff's Philadelphia International label (you mentioned the Intruders track, who were on either PIR or a subsidiary TSOP or Gamble).

Also artists on Philly Groove like First Choice (also produced by Stan Watson), The Trammps on Buddha then Golden Fleece, it's really hard to pinpoint so many tracks.

Just check out compilations like Creme De La Creme Vol 1 & 2 from WEA, and Spirit of Philadelphia Vol. 1 & 2 to get a basic idea of the philly sound.

Also, if you have iTunes access, just type in 'philly groove' and a whole bunch of Stan Watson related productions with the philly musicians will come up.

Then there's mid to late 70s projects like The Salsoul Orchestra, and John Davis,etc...

Rule of thumb for me, look for session guys like Earl Young, Ronald Baker, Norman Harris, Bobby Eli, Larry Washington, Ron Kersey, Vince Montana, Michael Foreman, Charles Collins, etc... listed on the backs of the LPs. Also, if it says it was recorded at Sigma or Virtue studios in Philadelphia. Then look out for producers or arrangers like John Davis, Gamble & Huff, Stan Watson, Bobby Martin, Norman Harris, Dexter Wansel, Thom Bell, Bobby Eli, Vince Montana and Bunny Sigler, to name the bigger named philly guys in the early to late 70s era.

Going back to the 'Right Track' recording, you should hunt down the 45 version by Ultra High Frequency, which has a slightly different vocal mix from the mid 70s Tom Moulton remix he did for Disco Gold. The 45 has the vocal mix on one side, the instrumental on the flip, btw. Also, the Disco Gold version is shorter than later released versions, which feature a longer outro and run about 6.30 in length. As far as I know, there was only one South Shore Commission mix, the longest being the LP mix (the 45 was the same mix, just edited to be shorter), which was on the Collectables label Best Of CD.

And I have to disagree with The Boogie Doctor, philly dance music by late '72 was pretty much disco. I wouldn't even call it 'proto-disco' because the sound was pretty consistent well into the late 70s. Philly dance music was the template that was used by other producers to jump off and start their own disco music routes. A danceable funk beat with strings and horns playing large parts of the melody was, I feel, perfected in Philadelphia and was the disco sound. Sorry Remicks, but Ike and Barry did their own type of sounds, but those didn't become the adopted disco rhythm arrangements. Partial thanks goes to Al Green, because it was his heavy tom drum beat used on tracks like Let's Stay Together that inspired philly drummer to emulate it on The Spinners I'll Be Around the following year, which I think was the true birth of disco.

Alright, I think I'm done talking now... :D

Disco Funk

[SandraDee]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

And I have to disagree with The Boogie Doctor, philly dance music by late '72 was pretty much disco. I wouldn't even call it 'proto-disco' because the sound was pretty consistent well into the late 70s.

I'm with you DF. That particular sound was still around in '79 on stuff like TJM & Loose Change.

[discophil]

Thanks, all!

I had a feeling this would more or less fall in the Philly camp, just not quite Gamble and Huff.

And what's weird is I had heard "Right Track" many, many times before (I probably landed a copy on an LP compliation or CD compliation sometime in the 80's...can't find it in my collection right now!) and I'm sure it was Ultra Frequency. However, when I was listening to Diva Radio yesterday they played the South Shore version. I'd forgotten it was originally done by Ultra Frequency but what's weird is listening to both versions I can't really tell the difference!! (oh, and SandraDee...I LOVE TJM! Man, that whole album...geez!)

EDIT TO ADD:
Ha ha ha! I just read Thommy's post more closely and see that he mentioned an album called "Disco Gold". That rang a bell. I checked my Excel Disco Spreadsheet of albums and CDs, found the title, ran over to my collection, looked in 1975 and there it was! Side A, track 2, Ultra High Frequency "We're On The Right Track"!

EDIT TO ADD again:
Thommy's suggestion of "Welcome to the Club" by Blue Magic nails it! That's the sound I'm looking for! Ace Spectrum's "Send Nobody Else" is close, but not quite it... (and I can't find a sample of The Dell's song online). Can you guys help add to the list??

Ultra High Frequency: We're On the Right Track
Blue Magic: Welcome to the Club
Intruders: I'll Always Love My Mama
New York City: I'm Doin' Fine Now

EDIT AGAIN!!!!
Disco Funk, I'm finding those albums (Creme and Philly) on Amazon! Great!! Also, the more I think about it while listening to Blue Magic (which I instantly fell in love with as soon as I heard it!) is the sound also sounds a lot like The Spinners and The Stylistics. Would you guys agree?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Going back to the 'Right Track' recording, you should hunt down the 45 version by Ultra High Frequency, which has a slightly different vocal mix from the mid 70s Tom Moulton remix he did for Disco Gold. The 45 has the vocal mix on one side, the instrumental on the flip, btw. Also, the Disco Gold version is shorter than later released versions, which feature a longer outro and run about 6.30 in length. As far as I know, there was only one South Shore Commission mix, the longest being the LP mix (the 45 was the same mix, just edited to be shorter), which was on the Collectables label Best Of CD.

Ultra High Frequency We're On The Right Track (7") Disco Music.com

Partial thanks goes to Al Green, because it was his heavy tom drum beat used on tracks like Let's Stay Together that inspired philly drummer to emulate it on The Spinners I'll Be Around the following year, which I think was the true birth of disco.

Yeap, this is so true, one can clearly hear the drum similarities.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

Ultra High Frequency We're On The Right Track (7") Disco Music.com




Yeap, this is so true, one can clearly hear the drum similarities.

Yup. And I read it from one of Bobby Eli's postings in the Soulful Detroit archives that Earl Young was copying the Al Green drum sound when they put down I'll Be Around for The Spinners. After that, you hear it a lot in the philly dance tracks for the next several years.

The Blue Magic stuff was produced by Norman Harris, and featured the Baker-Harris-Young rhythm section until the Mystic Dragons LP, where Fat Larry's Band was used instead.

Just remembering some early 70s dance tracks from Philly:

The Futures - Stay With Me (Gamble & Huff production from '72, definitely early disco, possibly even earliest use of four-on-the-floor drum groove)

The Delfonics - I Told You So (a Stan Watson/Philly Groove track, which showed the Delfonics could do uptempo philly disco, even though they were more known for their mid-tempo ballads. Too bad they didn't continue with the philly sound with their following album)

The Trammps - the Legendary Zing album. This was a remix album done in '75 by Tom Moulton of tracks the Trammps did for Buddha back in '72. He really didn't do much alterations to the originals, except present the mono 45 tracks from '72 as stereo mixes, and extend them by inserting instrumental sections. If you listen to the '72 singles of tracks like Rubber Band and Pray All You Sinners, there are slight variations, but they essentially sound the same as Moulton's 75 mixes.

Fantastic Johnny C/The Philly Sound - Waitin For The Rain b/w Don't Depend On Me. The Fantastic Johnny C vocal versions were released in early 73 on Phil-LA of Soul, and then a year later, I guess to cash in on the MFSB rhythm sections popularity, instrumental mixes were put out under the artist name The Philly Sound. Great early disco!

Brothers Guiding Light - Getting Together - this track has popped up on various Northern Soul compilations over the years. I believe it was recorded in early '73 at Virtue Studios, but it features Baker Harris and Young on rhythm section. The lead vocalist on this track would later record other great philly tracks that were put out on the Buddha label, like Midnight Lady (which is on the Spirit Of Philadelphia Vol 1 compilation). Getting Together is one of those tracks I never get tired of listening to. The CD compilation 'Northern Soul of Philadelphia Vol 3' contains most of the David Morris stuff, with a different mix of Midnight Lady from the released version, and two versions of Getting Together with the same backing track - a mono of the released version, and an early mix featuring different vocalists.

On a slight tangent, the early Patrick Adams productions were philly-esque. I'm not sure if he used the philly guys on Executive Suite's 'You Believed In Me' from '74. That vocal group did have a number of earlier singles like 'When The Fuel Runs' out that featured the Baker-Harris-Young rhythm section, though. Anyway, here's a compilation CD of Patrick Adams stuff (check out My Baby's Got ESP, and I Just Want To Spend My Life With You):

Patrick Adams best

Disco Funk

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Partial thanks goes to Al Green, because it was his heavy tom drum beat used on tracks like Let's Stay Together that inspired philly drummer to emulate it on The Spinners I'll Be Around the following year, which I think was the true birth of disco.

But, wouldn't you attribute the heavy tom drum beat, moreso to Thom Bell? It was standard part of his arrangements & productions. Even if the Spinners' tracks hit a year later, I'll admit, I don't know which came first: Thom Bell's success, or Al Green's "Let's Stay Together"

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Pure and unadulterated Philly soul disco. It was produced by Stan Watson and/or arranged by Norman Harris, if I'm not mistaken. The same backing track was recycled for South Shore Commission's remake 2 years later in '75. I think the SSC album featured different backing tracks by different groups. The main session guys were Instant Funk produced by Bunny Sigler, then there was the Ultra High Frequency backing track version with Baker Harris & Young on rhythm, and lastly, some other producer that did the remainder of the tracks like 'I'd Rather Switch Than Fight', which sounds different from the Philly session guys (Instant Funk was also philly).

UHF had another single called 'Incompatible' that had a similar instrumental arrangement to 'Right Track'. Pretty much anything out of Philadelphia between '72 to '76 had that same 'classic' philly disco sound. You can hear it in a more jazzy feel on Gamble & Huff's Philadelphia International label (you mentioned the Intruders track, who were on either PIR or a subsidiary TSOP or Gamble).

Also artists on Philly Groove like First Choice (also produced by Stan Watson), The Trammps on Buddha then Golden Fleece, it's really hard to pinpoint so many tracks.

Just check out compilations like Creme De La Creme Vol 1 & 2 from WEA, and Spirit of Philadelphia Vol. 1 & 2 to get a basic idea of the philly sound.

Also, if you have iTunes access, just type in 'philly groove' and a whole bunch of Stan Watson related productions with the philly musicians will come up.

Then there's mid to late 70s projects like The Salsoul Orchestra, and John Davis,etc...

Rule of thumb for me, look for session guys like Earl Young, Ronald Baker, Norman Harris, Bobby Eli, Larry Washington, Ron Kersey, Vince Montana, Michael Foreman, Charles Collins, etc... listed on the backs of the LPs. Also, if it says it was recorded at Sigma or Virtue studios in Philadelphia. Then look out for producers or arrangers like John Davis, Gamble & Huff, Stan Watson, Bobby Martin, Norman Harris, Dexter Wansel, Thom Bell, Bobby Eli, Vince Montana and Bunny Sigler, to name the bigger named philly guys in the early to late 70s era.

Going back to the 'Right Track' recording, you should hunt down the 45 version by Ultra High Frequency, which has a slightly different vocal mix from the mid 70s Tom Moulton remix he did for Disco Gold. The 45 has the vocal mix on one side, the instrumental on the flip, btw. Also, the Disco Gold version is shorter than later released versions, which feature a longer outro and run about 6.30 in length. As far as I know, there was only one South Shore Commission mix, the longest being the LP mix (the 45 was the same mix, just edited to be shorter), which was on the Collectables label Best Of CD.

And I have to disagree with The Boogie Doctor, philly dance music by late '72 was pretty much disco. I wouldn't even call it 'proto-disco' because the sound was pretty consistent well into the late 70s. Philly dance music was the template that was used by other producers to jump off and start their own disco music routes. A danceable funk beat with strings and horns playing large parts of the melody was, I feel, perfected in Philadelphia and was the disco sound. Sorry Remicks, but Ike and Barry did their own type of sounds, but those didn't become the adopted disco rhythm arrangements. Partial thanks goes to Al Green, because it was his heavy tom drum beat used on tracks like Let's Stay Together that inspired philly drummer to emulate it on The Spinners I'll Be Around the following year, which I think was the true birth of disco.

Alright, I think I'm done talking now... :D

Disco Funk

Wonderful post DF !

Sorry Remicks, but Ike and Barry did their own type of sounds, but those didn't become the adopted disco rhythm arrangements. Partial thanks goes to Al Green, because it was his heavy tom drum beat used on tracks like Let's Stay Together that inspired philly drummer to emulate it on The Spinners I'll Be Around the following year, which I think was the true birth of disco.

Say it ain't true Disco Funk ....you are parting ways with the James Brown "Origins Of The Disco" theory ......????

Well I think the Philly lineage is much more defensible.

OK ...in doing so then , we are going to give a nod to the innovations of Al Green ....because TSOP's Bobby Eli confirmed that's where Tom Bell picked up that heavy beat sound of his . But then Al Green is actually just the vocalist on those songs ......the credit of that drum sound should really go to his drummer wouldn't you agree? On all those terrific bottom heavy hits, like LET'S STAY TOGETHER , that drummer was the late Al Jackson Jr. .
Jackson was also a house regular playing drums at STAX Records .... AND ... ......ooo ... ooo ... here it comes DF .... therefore has a strong Isaac Hayes connection . A group of staffers at STAX was referred to as "THE STAFF" and both Jackson and Hayes were included in that.

... AND ..... ..... it is this same Al Jackson Jr. playing drums on Isaac Hayes first album: PRESENTING ISAAC HAYES .

Haven't been able to determine if that's Jackson on HOT BUTTERED SOUL yet .. ( he is not drumming on the SHAFT lp ) .... Ah yes what a tangled disco web we weave ...



*****