DJs: Big Room or Intimate Club

[discokicks]

This is a topic that I've been wanting to see discussed. I'm from a smaller city so my experience with the big house disco/club is limited. The largest club that I've been a resident dj in during these last 25 years was Club 181 which held a little over 400 although I have played at a few pride events where there were over 1000 in attendance.

In regards to a big room club that holds over say 1500 and the smaller club that sees a regular crowd of less than 300, which would you say was/is preferable to your tastes?

I've always liked the smaller venues because I've felt the music was more intimate and personal. A dj could get away with more spur-of-the-moment musical ingredients and overall, I like that raunchier, underground environment where the music seems to be the key attraction.

The big room club's appeal seems to be more of presenting something grand and awe-inspiring. The music definitely has its importance (and I certainly would have loved to have experienced Donna's Try Me I Know We Can Make It in a big room) but it would be the overall club package that everyone would be drawn to.

So which is it for you? Large or small?

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by discokicks

So which is it for you? Large or small?

haha..
Both have their advantages..I chose to work in a Big club.."not a Dj" But for personal time I would choose the intimate club because if I went to a club when I wasn't working it was usually on a date so I liked the nice candle lit table ,good service and not having to fight to get on the dance floor..
Plus I have been to some small places that the sound system rocks..

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

I've worked in every setting from hole-in-the-wall dives and illegal underground bottle clubs, to 1000+ capacity. I'll take the BIG room anyday!

It's actually more challenging to control a smaller crowd for an entire night. Their attention-span isn't as long. And, with a BIG room, a floor-clearing mix (or picking-up the wrong needle) is a devastating experience. But, if you've got your "crowd-control" instincts fine tuned, you can rock a BIG room much further than a small one. Here's two examples:

1) Around 7am, at 13 Buttons, in Miami, I've got about 500 people still going, with no booze served and the lights up. I mix out of "Hit 'N Run Lover" into The Honey Cone's "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show". The place goes crazy! I play with parts 1 & 2, then mix into Wilton Place Street Band's "Disco Lucy" and the roof blows off the building. It was a friggin' magic moment. It'll never happen twice. And only could've happened with a BIG crowd.

2) Around 5am at Probe in LA, I'm playing the Black Party, easily 750 guys in the room and mix from "Babe, We're Gonna Love Tonight", into The Miracle's "Love Machine". (Blending it over the break. Not cheating and doing a cold-start) And I can barely hear my monitors, for all the screaming.

The larger the group, I've found, the more they're open to creativity and appreciative of when a DJ is really working the vinyl.

[discokicks]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

2) Around 5am at Probe in LA, I'm playing the Black Party, easily 750 guys in the room and mix from "Babe, We're Gonna Love Tonight", into The Miracle's "Love Machine". (Blending it over the break. Not cheating and doing a cold-start) And I can barely hear my monitors, for all the screaming.

The larger the group, I've found, the more they're open to creativity and appreciative of when a DJ is really working the vinyl.

Incredibly interesting....and it does certainly satisfy something inside being the orchestrator of all that chaos.

When I'm on the other side of the headphones, I've always found the intimate club the most pleasurable....specially on those nights when the tunes and the crowd sync beautifully. It's like a big ol' house party.

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

1) Around 7am, at 13 Buttons, in Miami, I've got about 500 people still going, with no booze served and the lights up. I mix out of "Hit 'N Run Lover" into The Honey Cone's "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show". The place goes crazy! I play with parts 1 & 2, then mix into Wilton Place Street Band's "Disco Lucy" and the roof blows off the building. It was a friggin' magic moment. It'll never happen twice. And only could've happened with a BIG crowd.

13 Buttons..What a DELIGHT~!!What a Time .
and my sweet Stephen you can garantee if I were there for that set I would have been one of the roof blowers..Love me some Honey Cone.

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Dayna

and my sweet Stephen you can garantee if I were there for that set I would have been one of the roof blowers..Love me some Honey Cone.

I agree to have heard that mix .....from HIT N RUN into ONE MONKEY .... well it simply would have taken me to the mountain top .....


*****

[QUINNY]

Small rooms for me every time. I've NEVER voluntarily been to a BIG venue....wouldn't want to.

When I was involved with the Rave scene (in a very minor role) some 15 years ago, the sight of several thousand people all bangin' their heads and bodies to the beat, together with the incredible DJs, mammoth sound system and amazing lighting was somewhat awe inspiring, but I'd NEVER choose it over a small, intimate room. It just felt like herd instinct took over.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by remicks

I agree to have heard that mix .....from HIT N RUN into ONE MONKEY .... well it simply would have taken me to the mountain top .....

Not too difficult, actually. Just need to use the 7" versions of "One Monkey...". (Different from the LP versions) On the last break of H&R Lover, start part 2 (7" b-side) of One Monkey... The tricky part is to run the mix for at least 64 beats, with a very gradual fade on H&R Lover. Then have part 1 (7" a-side) of One Monkey... ready and slip-cue into it, when the chorus comes back in, on part 2. Then, when the break comes back in, ride it into the intro of "Brazil" (end of "Frenesi"). I did that set for a few Classics Parties. A "Minute Rice" mix...perfect every time.

It's like running the first verse of Sheena Easton's "My Baby Takes The Morning Train" over the last break of Vivian Vee's "Give Me A Break". On paper, it makes no sense. But at 5am, with a big crowd (and a SERIOUS command of the pitch control) it's heaven.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

When I was involved with the Rave scene (in a very minor role) some 15 years ago, the sight of several thousand people all bangin' their heads and bodies to the beat, together with the incredible DJs, mammoth sound system and amazing lighting was somewhat awe inspiring, but I'd NEVER choose it over a small, intimate room. It just felt like herd instinct took over.

At 'The Saint', in Fort Lauderdale,about 10+ years ago, we'd have the Rave Parties come in around 6am on Sat. or Sun. mornings., after our Disco crowd left. We were a 5am club, with an Occupancy Limit of about 600, or so. (I'm guessing based on the 2000+ door count on my last night there, July 4th, of 1997.) At 5am, we'd clear-out the bar and the Rave DJ would set-up his records while I crated mine. There'd be a seemingly endless line all down State Road 84, of kids waiting to get in when they re-opened the doors at 6am. And I agree that it sure looked like a"herd". All the same age clothes, hair, etc... But to compare a 'Rave' crowd to a' Disco' crowd is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by discokicks

When I'm on the other side of the headphones, I've always found the intimate club the most pleasurable....specially on those nights when the tunes and the crowd sync beautifully. It's like a big ol' house party.

I'd never belittle a smaller party club dancefloor. For 11 years at 'Uncle Charlie's', Miami, we'd have a blast packin' that little, elevated dancefloor with enough people, that you'd have to dance by the bar. It is definitely a different head-space for a DJ, tho'. Probably a bit less calculated effort, than a large room can be. I'd be thinkin' & mixin' song-to-song. As opposed to plotting 3, or 4 songs out.

Originally Posted by Dayna

13 Buttons..What a DELIGHT~!!What a Time .
and my sweet Stephen you can garantee if I were there for that set I would have been one of the roof blowers..Love me some Honey Cone.

I'm half-heartedly negotiating a one-nighter, "Coming Out Of Retirement" party, if I can get the promoter to agree to a large enough venue. If it pans-out, I promise to be flying your pretty, painted face down here for it!

[discokicks]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

I'd never belittle a smaller party club dancefloor. For 11 years at 'Uncle Charlie's', Miami, we'd have a blast packin' that little, elevated dancefloor with enough people, that you'd have to dance by the bar. It is definitely a different head-space for a DJ, tho'. Probably a bit less calculated effort, than a large room can be. I'd be thinkin' & mixin' song-to-song. As opposed to plotting 3, or 4 songs out.

The less calculated effort is likely what gives the intimate club its charm plus I would think that this is where unknown hits are made.

My thoughts currently have been focussed on where dance music will end up. More and more, Billboard's dance chart is filled with remixed radio hits....basically taking what's familiar and moulding it to satisfy the dancer. This all began at the turn of the century and at that time, it was more of a novel, creative way to make new dance music.

I remember how these transformations went to a whole new level when they shaped Faith Hill's Breathe into a smokin' circuit hit. Now, pop remixes are expected for any well-known radio tune giving the unknown true dance artist less and less attention from the DJ who wants to please his/her crowd and those who like to dance. This is different than what happened in the early 80s...dance music basically went back underground and true dance artists were embraced by the dance community in their intimate environments.

Back in the early days of disco, I'm guessing that the majority of dance clubs were small and intimate....the incubators for the disco explosion. I wonder if there still is any of that atmosphere happening in big cities where the patrons go to hear music other than what's heard on pop charts.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by discokicks

The less calculated effort is likely what gives the intimate club its charm plus I would think that this is where unknown hits are made.

I dunno about that... The smaller the crowd, the harder it is to get them moving to an unfamiliar track. The BIG room, or crowd, tends to be, collectively, more open to new tracks. Generally, people don't want to be on the dancefloor by themselves. So they'll, more often than not, go with the flow.

Originally Posted by discokicks

Billboard's dance chart is filled with remixed radio hits....basically taking what's familiar and moulding it to satisfy the dancer. This all began at the turn of the century and at that time, it was more of a novel, creative way to make new dance music.

During the 90's, the push towards digital was so strong. Especially, in Dance music. Programmers furiously working on ways to manipulate digital music. With emphasis on finding a way to change the speed of vocals, while maintaining perfect pitch. But, since Pop music evolved into a digitally created genre as well, the ability to manipulate that music was an obvious "next step." I'll admit, when it started to become more about the Remixers, and less about the Artists, it wasn't hard for me to make the decision to retire. The challenge in mixing music, was dissappearing. ("Crowd Control" I knew... I could keep a 100+ dancefloor going for hours, while "phoning it in". Everything got so similar and minimalistic. I got reeeeeally bored.)

Originally Posted by discokicks

Now, pop remixes are expected for any well-known radio tune giving the unknown true dance artist less and less attention from the DJ who wants to please his/her crowd and those who like to dance. This is different than what happened in the early 80s...dance music basically went back underground and true dance artists were embraced by the dance community in their intimate environments.

Well... Mmm... Sort of. Everything seems more creative and genuine in the past, but it's not all that different as far as popular culture's behavior. The "trends" are different, but the cycles remain the same.

The very early 80's Dance movement was underground, but only because we didn't have an acceptable "name" for it, since "Disco" fell out of favor. Then, by '82 (or so) the bpms dropped, things got funky and it was safe to call it "Dance Music". (I recall RCA officially using that term first, with regards to promotion of a David Bowie track.) Then, along came "Progressive", "Hi-NRG", The "San Francisco Sound", The "Miami Sound", "Freestyle", or whatever off-shoot you were drawn to. And there was plenty of Dance-Oriented music on the radio. It just wasn't "Disco". But it was still the same thing happening, everywhere...people on dance floors. ("Disco" remained in the Gay clubs, here in the US. We called it Hi-NRG. But, as I was told by the someone I met from Almighty, it was mostly UK Pop. Passion, ERC, Record Shack, Fantasia, etc...)

It's not like the so-called "Death of Disco" closed many clubs. They stayed open. But there was enough growth, within the different sub-genres, to warrant clubs devoted, solely, to one particular form of Dance Music.

Originally Posted by discokicks

Back in the early days of disco, I'm guessing that the majority of dance clubs were small and intimate....the incubators for the disco explosion.

Oh, Lord no! Though you didn't have the massive Dance-Halls that evolved during the 90's, you didn't have "small" clubs in the beginning. The concept of an "intimate" Dance Club, with a DJ, was financially impossible. Simply because the sound & lighting systems were WAY too expensive. Mostly, juke-box dancefloors, outside of the big cities, until the mid-late 70's. The DJ clubs were an inner-city phenomenon, in the very early days.

I worked at The Comeback and The Candlelight, in Nyack, NY (about 20 miles north of the city) and in 1976 we were the first clubs with DJ's, soundsystems, lights, etc... in the NY Metro-area, outside Manhattan. (Although. I'm not sure what year The Playroom opened, in Yonkers, NY, across the Hudson River from Nyack. Possibly 1975? {AWESOME CLUB! DJ Donald Foldes was a huge inspiration to me!})

Now remember, I was raised a New Yorker. So, the experience and history that I offer-up, is based on what was happening in and around NYC, at that time. I can't speak for other locales.

[srg]

Speaking strictly as a dancer and not a dj, I think the big rooms were FAR superior a dance experience than the smaller intimate venues. I found the smaller places tended to be "clique-ish" and the crowd's energy level would remain fairly the same throughout the night, no matter what the playlist (i.e.one good song followed by another good one followed by a so-so one; "ok, let's sit THIS song out now"...just DON'T SWEAT too much...
whereas in the larger clubs the dj would peak his dancers several times, and you'd get caught up in that almost-tribal dancing bliss, where the energy level was through the roof, where you would NOT DARE sit down because the next song could maybe take you HIGHER yet, all ending up with the slowdown, sleazy set....

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by srg

all ending up with the slowdown, sleazy set...

<sigh> That's one of the parts I miss the most. The Sleaze Set was like a reward for everyone, including the DJ, for makin' it through to the morning.

[JussiK]

BIG ROOM! The biggest I ever did was not a room though, it was an open air gig at the gardens of the stadium of Rome, with RAI TV in attendance shooting live on air, some 6 years ago. The cameraman actually got down to lay on a skateboard on his back, and used it as a trolley device to shoot from between my legs. It is not easy trying to accomplish a mix with a large camera inches away from your crotch and everybody shouting madly all around you. They also had to have the chorus line of bikini-clad bimbos, it was an Italian show after all. The ragazzas invaded the dj booth, and I was told to perform a karaoke version of "I Will Survive" with them and the hysterically dancing presenter, and lead the whole cheering crowd to a massive singalong. I pretended not to understand anything and improvised a quick latin hustle demo with Fiore, the daughter of famed horror film director Dario Argento. That was my 15 minutes of international fame. Live on Italian television, in close up, dripping with sweat under burning lights and a 28 degree August night heat, biting my tongue trying to decide between passing out and suicide. - If a big room has a great crowd and a great sound system there's indeed nothing like blasting Vivian Vee's Remember thru the speakers that really deliver, like Stephen said!

SMALL ROOM! If the crowd is sexy and dances well, it's wonderful to sort of get intimate with the people by spinning some hot fusion samba tracks and coax them to grind even more seductively.

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by JussiK

BIG ROOM! The biggest I ever did was not a room though, it was an open air gig at the gardens of the stadium of Rome, with RAI TV in attendance shooting live on air, some 6 years ago.
That was my 15 minutes of international fame. Live on Italian television, in close up, dripping with sweat under burning lights and a 28 degree August night heat, biting my tongue trying to decide between passing out and suicide.

I'm salivating... I've played some big events and wonderous rooms, but nothing like that! Oh, how I envy you for that gig.