There's something weird with this LP cover for Motown Discotech #3

[Videoskooter]

This is what Bernie and others say on that record:

Rick Dees Disco Duck (Promo 12") Disco Music.com

You know: "something only gets insulting when you allow it to be insulting!"

(OMG, luckily I didn't mention Dis-gorilla )

Sorry guys, I'm off now, got an appointment with Doctor Disco:



Sorry 2, that's a damn groovy song! If he was really trying to crush the genre, why oh why did he make this particular funky tune?

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by remicks

Well those charts ... ( the disco charts that is ) which I am so grateful for ..... are indeed somewhat representative of what got played at the time. For instance the era that Marky is now computing .... those charts were broken down by cities and regions and published for all to review and you can confirm there that certain songs do indeed dominate in most the regions . Of course they vary ....even as the music varied from club to club within one city! thank goodness .....
Now unless you think there was a conspiracy at the top that altered each region's reportings ( with no region complaining about it ) .... you have to recognize that certain songs more than any of the others got played virtually everywhere.

just gave you *THE* reason why those Billboards Disco charts are not to be taken "literally", some regions may have been more accurate than others, but I was there when Djs were filling out the charts next to me (or their records were withheld by the Record Pool until they did) and I knew many Billboard reporters, they were constantly harassed by promoters, so DJs included whatever they were pushed, just to be done with it, and I'll bet this happened everywhere.

As for DISCO DUCK ....who knows how much play it got ... depending on what club you were in I guess...but judging from its wimpy disco chart success it didn't get played that much (or folks were being too cool to report it) . Regardless ,we know the song existed....was huge on the radio... and no harm came of it IMO ....

Disco Duck was not played by any self-respecting club Dj, It was considered an insult to your crowd to do so ! That's why the poor standing on Disco charts (according to your research as I wouldn't know)

I can understand Video's and youngsters lack of understanding about this issue, after all, they were not part of the American Disco experience back in the day, but the fact that you didn't get it demonstrates to me how far removed from the real Disco scene in the late 70's you were.

"Duck" means many things but I cannot confirm your assertion about it meaning "gay" ......???? Never heard that before myself and can't find a reference saying so ....

Well mixmachine you can't have it both ways ....either its how you present it in this case , with disco very much associated with gays , so much so that even a young DJ in Memphis knew it in 1976 and intentionally worked in references in his song ....or its the way you usually prefer to present it : with it becoming "gay" only in latter day revisionists' imaginations....
( How come Rick Dees knew the disco/gay connection in Memphis , but you didn't in Miami?? )

And what the heck are you talking about here? Can't you follow *the* point from one post to the next? Is your short term memory shot?

The point is that Rick Dee's intent was to insult the Disco experience and destroy this 'new' musical movement that was scoring points against his precious "Head Rock" music. (He was Playing Disco on the radio in Tennessee in 1975-76 ? Yeap Sure, where is the tape? )

And *precisely* because he was a Hippie Rock Head -- who was looking to demonize Disco in the eyes of average folk-- is the reason he try to portray everyone associated with Disco as "weird" (meaning Gay-ish) and ridiculous, (hence the mocking "disco duck" parody) and this was far from the truth, (and how would he know?? exactly) as the great majority of Disco Patrons , even at the start of the Disco tech movement were not gay, this is all a revisionist myth supported by past politically biased and un-challenged (for many reasons) assertions. (including Marky's findings posted in the other thread)

I knew more about what was going on regarding Disco and Gay culture than you did, that's why I can identified "Revisionist' BS today when I see it.

You may not know that "Duck" (Pato) in Spanish means Gay, but take my word for it, (or ask anyone you know in California), but this is a very well known Spanish/Latin American 'slang', one that even little children knew and fought about in school yard brawls. (I don't know about now though).

Here is a loosely translated example, one of the many variations used

A school bully will tell you, "you left some feathers trailing behind you"

He was calling you a "Pato" (duck) or Gay, at the time this was the worst thing you could say to someone in the Latin world. (well next to cussing your mother out), again , I don't know about now.

[markydefad]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

The point is that Rick Dee's intent was to insult the Disco experience and destroy this 'new' musical movement that was scoring points against his precious "Head Rock" music. (He was Playing Disco on the radio in Tennessee in 1975-76 ? Yeap Sure, where is the tape? )

Interesting sidenote, I read that Rick Dees real name is: Ricardo Diaz!!!! [afterthought...this may have been a joke!!!.... not true according to Wikipedia...]

as the great majority of Disco Patrons , even at the start of the Disco tech movement were not gay, this is all a revisionist myth supported by past politically biased and un-challenged (for many reasons) assertions. (including Marky's findings posted in the other thread)

....here we go again, y'all....
ah Mixmachine and his relentless Revisionist campaign to label anything & everything remotely
GAY about the history of DISCO as "revisionist" history on the part of the GAYS.....

he's referring to this little propaganda piece published in the GAY year of 1975 in the GAY version of Billboard only read by GAY people...

This is the second article from the May 17, 1975 issue of Billboard, printed under the heading

A BILLBOARD SPOTLIGHT ON DISCO


"GAY DANCERS ADD TO EXCITEMENT OF DISCO BOOM"
by Jean Williams

“Seventy percent of the discos across country are gay,” says Marc Simon, president of Provocative Promotions in Los Angeles.


“We have conducted a survey sending questionnaires to managers and disk jockeys of the 300 discotheques we service with disco records across country.”

“The two-page questionnaire requests information on the sex, age, race, etc., of the disco patrons,” adds Simon.

Marc Paul Simon’s Provocative Promotions is the first company to devote itself to national discotheque promotion. Beginning his career with Esther Phillips, Simon was later called in to assist on a number of records released by 20th Century. Among the hits that Provocative Promotions has been associated with are “Rock the Boat,” “Rock Your Baby,” “Kung Fu Fighting,” “The Hustle,” “Get Dancin’,” “Dynomite,” and “Get Down Tonight.” Simon also publishes a disco tip-sheet titled “Simon Says,” and is expanding his firm to handle marketing and radio promotion in addition to work with discotheques.

Simon Sez: We do promotions, not just mailings. It takes a staff of people to work the discotheques because there are so many of them now. I have three people working with me, keeping up the lists, keeping up correspondence and mailings. We compile reaction sheets that gauge the activity of records in all areas that we service and keep up on the availability of records in the local stores. It takes a lot of time to keep up on all that information and to keep up our contacts around the country.

Simon Sez: I work the entire country and service discotheques in 70 to 80 cities. I’m currently servicing some 350 clubs, and we try to see that they’re the largest and best clubs in each city. In a month’s time, I reach a couple of million people through the discotheques, probably the most concentrated audience of record buyers.

But apparently not in a certain disco in Florida....

[remicks]

*****

OK so let me get this straight .....Rick Dees intentionally chose the term disco "duck" because he knew in latin culture "duck" meant "gay" .....but he did so not because there was some sort of disco/gay connection he was aware of ... but just because he arbitrarily thought that was a clever angle in which to insult the disco crowd ... especially the Latin ones for some reason.

... In other words, even though discos and gays had no strong relationship , Dees out of thin air decided "what I ought to do is write a song that features a disco duck (a gay disco-er) ... just as a coded way of insulting all of them" ....
....



*******

It's funny really that of all things ... we wind up arguing about: ....DISCO DUCK !

Well that just shows to what degree we love this stuff ! I myself value these conversations as productive exchanges to sort out the truths concerning disco . So mixmachine I am always interested in your perspectives and I learn things along the way. Nothing personal ...nothing to get upset about (anybody) ... just some good ol' all American debating about a topic we have a special passion for.

But now I have to be brief because ...... my short term memory just kicked in and I realize I've got to get to .......work !!

[markydefad]

The main motivation for Rick Dees...

"The more I played the songs ,the more I knew it might be time for a disco parody. One of the guys that worked out in the gym did a great duck voice ............so I said "how about a disco duck?"

HE KNEW A MAN WHO DID A GREAT DUCK VOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT THERE'S "COMEDY GOLD"!!!!!!!!!!

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by markydefad

....here we go again, y'all....
ah Mixmachine and his relentless Revisionist campaign to label anything & everything remotely
GAY about the history of DISCO as "revisionist" history on the part of the GAYS.....

My only objections are against exaggerated revisionist's accounts, which are now passed as facts by some around here..

he's referring to this little propaganda piece published in the GAY year of 1975 in the GAY version of Billboard only read by GAY people...

"During 1972-1976: Billboard, its Disco conventions and the Disco music industry was pretty much controlled by the gay community and this is what is left out of Love Saves the Day” Barry Lederer (writer for Billboard’s Disco Mix column)

“Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past” George Orwell

[markydefad]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

My only objections are against exaggerated revisionist's accounts, which are now passed as facts by some around here..



"During 1972-1976: Billboard, its Disco conventions and the Disco music industry was pretty much controlled by the gay community and this is what is left out of Love Saves the Day” Barry Lederer (writer for Billboard’s Disco Mix column)

“Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past” George Orwell

I don't get it. Barry Lederer is gay. You are taking his comment to mean there was a vast Gay-wing conspiracy to keep the straight p.o.v. out of the disco press???? Maybe the Gay control issue was because they were in control of the disco movement...the leaders, the movers & shakers....not because only they had access to the press of the time.

"But they were Blanche...they WERE Gay"

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

OK so let me get this straight .....Rick Dees intentionally chose the term disco "duck" because he knew in latin culture "duck" meant "gay" .....but he did so not because there was some sort of disco/gay connection he was aware of ... but just because he arbitrarily thought that was a clever angle in which to insult the disco crowd ... especially the Latin ones for some reason.

... In other words, even though discos and gays had no strong relationship , Dees out of thin air decided "what I ought to do is write a song that features a disco duck (a gay disco-er) ... just as a coded way of insulting all of them" ....

I don't know if he was aware of the meaning of "Duck" exactly (in the Latin community) but he certainly knew it meant weird.

The ridiculing intent of his song was augmented in the Latin community due to the "double entendre" use of the word "Duck", that's is why it was hated so much.

IMO whether Dees knew or not (of Duck's alternate meaning) is irrevelant, enough irreparable damage was done to Disco's image by the ridiculing along, which was then picked up a little later by the "Disco Suck" movement and used to hammer Disco to the ground. ....



*******

It's funny really that of all things ... we wind up arguing about: ....DISCO DUCK !

Yeap , your right, and this all wastes my valuable time too, besides, I don't think anyone gives a rat's ass about any of this anyways...

So if you want to enjoy "Disco Duck" go ahead, I'm sure you'd look 'cool' doing this dance on this video

Quak Quak!!


Disco Ducks at TOP OF POPS

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by markydefad

I don't get it. Barry Lederer is gay. You are taking his comment to mean there was a vast Gay-wing conspiracy to keep the straight p.o.v. out of the disco press???? Maybe the Gay control issue was because they were in control of the disco movement...the leaders, the movers & shakers....not because only they had access to the press of the time.

"But they were Blanche...they WERE Gay"

Yeah. And Maybe I won the Lotto!!!

I know you don't get it, that's why is so much fun to debate you.

[markydefad]

Ah but Mix, I have proof [like pesky published documentation with names, dates, quotes, facts, stats] and you have only your opinion.

Proof trumps opinion!!!!

Glad you're having fun...tell me-- what have I won???

[Videoskooter]

Yes but this clip is from a British show,TOTP, and that audience sure ain't the average Discolovers. Who knows, after that one they were jumping like that on something by Supertramp or Aerosmith (thank God, those 2 kept Pop alive )

In this clip however, you clearly see the stand-up comedian, who makes jokes about Memphis Tenessee:

Was Mister Dees a Disco artist: NO
Was it a fun record: IMO YES
Was the music on that album good: IMO YES (again think away the vocals on Doctor Disco and you have a good dance track).

BTW, it's not forgotten over here. Look at a Kiddie ride from one of my collegues:

[Teddybear]

Pato (Duck) is a slang for "homosexual" in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua and Venezuela, but not in countries like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Spain. In fact, throughout the Spanish-speaking world it has many other meanings not associated with a gay lifestyle.

I'm sorry but the '76 conspiracy theory sounds to me quite a bit exaggerated and rather ridiculous, especially if you mix it with the Spanish ingredient. To be "clumsy" would be a generalized meaning that could be catched by any Latino, like in "walking like a duck".

Here Disco Duck was heard a lot on the radio, but never in discos! The song was assumed by listeners as some kind of parody, and to have a nice and almost childish melody. In my country, a very popular radio station adopted the duck voice of the song and turn it into a character that succesfully identified the station for several years until its closure.

A note in the margin: We had poppers here too (brought from the US).

[remicks]

*****

-- I came home all prepared for a good go around about DISCO DUCK ...because believe it or not ....I think there's much more to be said !! But, mixmachine , you've put forth such a revelation that I'll have to forgo all that for now !!

Quickly though ...

Teddybear:
Pato (Duck) is a slang for "homosexual" in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua and Venezuela, but not in countries like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Spain. In fact, throughout the Spanish-speaking world it has many other meanings not associated with a gay lifestyle.

Interesting because I asked my partner of twenty five years ...who happpens to be hispanic Calif-style ....about it and he didn't have any idea what I was talking about

There seems to be some misinterpretation that I am claiming DISCO DUCK as one of the greatest dance floor fillers of the disco era ...I personally have no recollection of hearing it in any club ....maybe I did though ...(?) -- (I know I never requested it !! )

Regardless, I've never been bothered by the song's existence and wouldn't have spasmed from it getting played and again ...I just accepted it as a fun song about disco. There is nothing hostile nor ridiculing toward disco in the song's lyrics , and besides that , as VS has printed them , the lyrics make the song seem if anything .......quite hetero.
But then I also didn't have any of the follow up grief that came after the fact ....maybe following its inclusion in SNF.... that apparently took place down in Florida. I've never been called one myself , nor have I ever heard anyone being called a disco duck.
So, for me it was a song that came and went in 1976 and that's about it. It was a successful radio song about disco much in the way Johnny Taylor's DISCO LADY was ... which I also played on my program.


But never mind that . WHAT'S THIS ????? !!!!!!!!!!
Quoted from: mixmachine !!!!!

"During 1972-1976: Billboard, its Disco conventions and the Disco music industry was pretty much controlled by the gay community and this is what is left out of Love Saves the Day” Barry Lederer (writer for Billboard’s Disco Mix column)

Damn where has this quote been hiding?? Where did you get it from mix???

Well it pretty much confirms what I've been trying to say all along .... the disco movement of the70's/ the gay movement of the 70's ,the two were attached at the hip.

"During 1972-1976" .... (the formative years of disco ).... "the disco music industry was pretty much controlled by the gay community." That's an astonishingly significant statement .That ain't just a rumour .That's stated from someone from the inside... from someone who really ought to know . Barry Lederer was responsible for Billboard's esteemed disco section following Tom Moulton. Being in his position, he, as much as anyone else we can think of, garnered a more broad and total perspective of what was going on in the disco industry. He was dealing with the disco scene from every angle ...from the record labels ....from the clubs ....from retail ... from the artists and producers... it would be at his desk where all these areas of disco would come together. So when Barry says something ....I listen. With his quote , checkmate and case closed me thinks ....




_______________________



(((watcha know .... right under our own noses : Barry Lederer )))


*****

[Videoskooter]

"Disco Duck, try your luck, don't be a cluck"

A reference to the power of Disco and Disco dancing? You know, BITD people were dancing with each other and not next to each other like they do nowadays". It was a fine way to meet a partner

Of course I was always wearing a gold chain and a low buttoned shirt What'd you want, I never had a Supertramp or Aerosmith T-shirt, so I had to do something to meetta da laaaaaydies!

OMG, those were such COOL days!

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Teddybear

Pato (Duck) is a slang for "homosexual" in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Nicaragua and Venezuela, but not in countries like Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Mexico and Spain. In fact, throughout the Spanish-speaking world it has many other meanings not associated with a gay lifestyle.

So are you saying that if the 'alternative' meaning is not common throughout all of Latin American countries then is not valid? In that case you'd have to erase just about any and all Spanish language slang spoken in any Latin country.

There are tons of Spanish Slang examples (same word) that have different meanings in different Latin countries, sometimes creating a very awkward situation due to mis-understandings.

I'm sorry but the '76 conspiracy theory sounds to me quite a bit exaggerated and rather ridiculous, especially if you mix it with the Spanish ingredient. To be "clumsy" would be a generalized meaning that could be catched by any Latino, like in "walking like a duck".

It maybe ridiculous to you , but that's the way it was down at street level in the USA at the time, and yes, mainly Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and others, although I never conducted a formal survey.

I wouldn't know how it was taken in Argentina for instance, I'm discussing here from the USA experience point of view. (and even that changes according to regions)

But I know very well that once you start injecting other counties' cultures, values, experiences, etc -- regarding the Disco years -- then everything gets even more clouded making it very difficult if not impossible to reach any consensus , but that doesn't mean the USA experience --regardless of what segment of the Disco crowd -- was not valid, certainly not ridiculous as you call it.

PS: Besides remember, that in '76 we were still teenagers!

The only ridiculous thing is for anyone to call "Disco Duck" a Disco Classic!!

Here this is what youngters may find online when they ask

What is 'Disco Duck' ?

Even today "Disco Duck" still is contributing to the ridiculing of "everything Disco"