... if you love Alec R Costandinos or Cerrone, read this ..

[Graham_Start]

Originally Posted by Dr. Disco

In the early 1990's I was able to order from Unidisc a brand new vinyl copy of the LP "How Much, How Much, I Love You" (complete with 'Beauty and the Beast' and 'Maybe'). The Unidisc catalogue # for the vinyl album is SPLP-8001. The sound quality is better than the Greatest Hits CD, but I think the RCA IBIS-7091 LP is superior to the Unidisc LP. Unfortunately I don't have the Casablanca issue of this LP for further comparison. Unidisc also had available the complete Romeo & Juliet on vinyl LP, but unfortunately I was unable to order it (this was around 1992 - guess I was too late).

The Casablanca is a bit better mastered than the Canadian RCA issue, but it still has a few tape dropouts and other oddities. I'd love to hear a European copy. My UK release of the first Love And Kisses album is excellent.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by Graham_Start

Oh, and supposedly Romeo & Juliet got a legit release in Japan several years ago, but that's long OOP too.

No supposedly about it..I owned it once, made a copy for myself then sold it for tons of $$ (thanks to the internet and ebay fools lol). The quality is top, true CD. Def from master tapes and not cassette (like the horrible Unidisc). Was very warm sounding and not over compressed/near distorted like most CD issues since the mid 90s. Crisp clear from begining to end.

[DJ Jimmy M]

The unidisc vinyl of "How Much I Love You" is the best and gives the whole LP a whole new listening experience. This is what my personal restoration job is made off of. I used my friend's copy cause I only have and always knew the Casablanca crap one. Im asuming the CD came out with the vinyl in 89..but ive never actually physicly seen the CD.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. and just a quick question for DJ Jimmy M .. how on earth do folks in Arizona listen to Pennine Radio? ( .. it was difficult enough getting a reception in the Pennine region of England !! )

LOL LOL!! I actually never heard of Pennine Radio till someone floated me that cart tape and I did something with it. Im a Philly native actually though. Only been living in Arizona (which BTW..sucks!) since the early part of the 2000's.

And also, my comments on those Russian boots...didnt realise at first you were talkin bout those. They're actually made by some clown in California and they are really shitty raw needle drops. When I was still old school technology and new to the whole digital age, I made the mistake of buying one..and my god...I was so pissed! The clock on the CD player actually read 04 secs before a tune even started, and when it did, it faded in and you lost a bit of the intro (and heard all the clicks, pops and surface noise). I got a refund and sent that piece of shit right back to that clown.

Once I got into the digital age and vinyl restoration, ive since done almost all of Alec's catolog to CDR and they sound almost legit..its scary! Alot of time and effort goes into vinyl restoration (im sure Graham can back me up on that one), its def not easy to do it right. So dont give your hard earned cash to these clowns who are most likely taking lackluster 128 - 192kbps mp3s off the net and burning them to CDR with fancy artwork. Learn vinyl restoration or just find a mint copy of what you want, and just raw needle drop to disc yourself.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by Videoskooter

it's about time the starZ DISCOver your talents

well thanks for the compliments :) i wish i was making $$ off some of my stuff (new and old).

[ashley]

.. now you really have got me thinking .. .. last year I purchased a Russian Cerrone CD compilation on Amazon .. the cover/packaging/sound is very professional .. it doesn't appear to be a CD-R .. it looks like a factory produced product .. is it possible I'm buying bootlegs on Amazon? Aren't all products vetted by Amazon first? Surely not every disc coming out of Russia is a bootleg? .. come to think of it, I also purchased a nice Voyage CD compilation directly from a Russian seller on E-Bay .. .. are we not just being a little paranoid here? Have we just been watching too many James Bond movies? ( .. I respect your opinion Graham .. it's one thing to poison former dissidents .. but then to sell counterfeit disco CDs on Amazon .. what's the world coming to? ) .. .. and as for the "clown from California" .. if we are indeed discussing the same seller .. he's now moved south of the border & upgraded his operation .. the discs I have purchased sound nothing like the basic needle-drops you describe .. they look & sound authentic, complete with factory sealed wrapping ..

[Graham_Start]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. now you really have got me thinking .. .. last year I purchased a Russian Cerrone CD compilation on Amazon .. the cover/packaging/sound is very professional .. it doesn't appear to be a CD-R .. it looks like a factory produced product

Yes, many bootlegs are factory produced products. Professionally-printed booklets and proper aluminum discs work out to be cheaper than CDRs if you're making more than 100.

Originally Posted by ashley

.. is it possible I'm buying bootlegs on Amazon?

Yes. Now that Amazon has affiliate sellers, it's basically eBay. Buyer beware.

Originally Posted by ashley

Aren't all products vetted by Amazon first?

No, although if they *knew* they were bootlegs, they'd pull them.

Originally Posted by ashley

Surely not every disc coming out of Russia is a bootleg?

99% of them would be. The 1% legit ones would be for Russian artists.

Originally Posted by ashley

.. come to think of it, I also purchased a nice Voyage CD compilation directly from a Russian seller on E-Bay .. .. are we not just being a little paranoid here?

No, we are simply aware of the realities of the world.

Originally Posted by ashley

Have we just been watching too many James Bond movies?

It has nothing to do with post-cold-war paranoia and everything to do with fact. Why do you have such a hard time believing this? Russia is piracy central. A quick bit of research will give you heaps of evidence to support this. There is no reason to pay for legit copies of anything there (especially since most people couldn't afford them anyway), and no penalty for IP theft. I'm not saying this to slam Russians as a people, it's just a fact that copyright enforcement there is nil. They don't care if it pisses off a few people in the West, and they have nothing to lose.

Originally Posted by ashley

( .. I respect your opinion Graham .. it's one thing to poison former dissidents .. but then to sell counterfeit disco CDs on Amazon .. what's the world coming to? )

It's about making money. The authorities there simply do not care if people are profiting from property that doesn't belong to them. Nice-looking CDs with aluminum discs, professionally-printed artwork, and shrink-wrap can be made quite inexpensively these days, if you can find a place that doesn't care if you own the copyright or not... which is just about any place in Russia. The vinyl bootlegs of yesteryear looked and sounded crappy because no reputable place in North America would press them. In the age of globalization, this is no longer a factor. The facilities are available elsewhere and the product can be shipped here.

[Graham_Start]

And just to add to that... it is not completely inconceivable that bootlegs can end up in legit channels. In the '90s there was a label called Germanofon that started reissuing all sorts of obscure German prog-rock albums, like Neu!, Eroc, and the long-OOP early Kraftwerk albums that now go for big bucks on eBay. The discs looked professional, nice artwork, UPC/EAN codes, and were supposedly made in Luxembourg. HMV and other established retailers carried them, believing them to be legit.

But they weren't. The "label" was a complete sham, simply repackaging needle drops and naturally giving no compensation to the artists. The discs weren't made in Luxembourg at all, that was just a smokescreen to fool law enforcement.

Some would argue that at least it gave people an opportunity to hear these difficult-to-obtain recordings. But now that we have P2P networks, there's no reason to throw money away on that. Whether you pay someone $20 or download the file off of a network, you still don't have a legal copy. Might as well go the way that costs you less. Is a pretty booklet and jewel case really worth $20?

[Graham_Start]

Originally Posted by DJ Jimmy M

The unidisc vinyl of "How Much I Love You" is the best and gives the whole LP a whole new listening experience. This is what my personal restoration job is made off of. I used my friend's copy cause I only have and always knew the Casablanca crap one. Im asuming the CD came out with the vinyl in 89..but ive never actually physicly seen the CD.

Well, let's not assume that, since even back then Unidisc was producing vinyl titles with no CD counterpart.

I didn't know that they'd reissued this album on vinyl though. What about it is better than the Casablanca? The Casablanca sounds reasonable to me, aside from tape dropouts and maybe lacking a bit of bass... it was mastered at Allen Zentz if I remember correctly; those facitilies would normally be a lot better than whatever Unidisc had.

[ashley]

.. thanks Graham .. that's shut me up ..

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. now you really have got me thinking .. .. last year I purchased a Russian Cerrone CD compilation on Amazon .. the cover/packaging/sound is very professional .. it doesn't appear to be a CD-R .. it looks like a factory produced product .. is it possible I'm buying bootlegs on Amazon? Aren't all products vetted by Amazon first? Surely not every disc coming out of Russia is a bootleg? .. come to think of it, I also purchased a nice Voyage CD compilation directly from a Russian seller on E-Bay .. .. are we not just being a little paranoid here? Have we just been watching too many James Bond movies? ( .. I respect your opinion Graham .. it's one thing to poison former dissidents .. but then to sell counterfeit disco CDs on Amazon .. what's the world coming to? ) .. .. and as for the "clown from California" .. if we are indeed discussing the same seller .. he's now moved south of the border & upgraded his operation .. the discs I have purchased sound nothing like the basic needle-drops you describe .. they look & sound authentic, complete with factory sealed wrapping ..

these discs are vinyl bootleggs..the stuff your buying (espessaly alec) is not on nor most likely be ever avalible on cd legit. maybe the california clown learned how to finally clean vinyl..but i know how to do it myself and have been for years now, so ill save my hard earned cash and do my own.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by Graham_Start

Well, let's not assume that, since even back then Unidisc was producing vinyl titles with no CD counterpart.

I didn't know that they'd reissued this album on vinyl though. What about it is better than the Casablanca? The Casablanca sounds reasonable to me, aside from tape dropouts and maybe lacking a bit of bass... it was mastered at Allen Zentz if I remember correctly; those facitilies would normally be a lot better than whatever Unidisc had.

Oh theres tons better about it vs the casablanca. For one, the casablanca is very muddy, has absolutly no real bottom end responce and the dynamics are all squished together ontop of that. forever i thought this was just a shame and mastering flaw on the original masters, but then i seen later when i got my friend's unidisc copy that it was casablanca who screwed this up. if you could hear "beauty and the beast" on this thing..WOW!

actually hearing that with a full beat and snare drum and hearing other things you could not hear in the casablanca pressing..not to mention actually being able to feel it! i swear it was like hearing the tune for the first time all over again. "maybe" is also a new experience vs the casablanca shit copy. i dont know how hard these are to find (my friend's copy is the only one i know of in exsistance), but if you can hunt it down..do it!! then clean it up to cd and you'll have a pretty close to real cd sounding copy of this lp.

[totouk]

Originally Posted by DJ Jimmy M

Once I got into the digital age and vinyl restoration, ive since done almost all of Alec's catolog to CDR and they sound almost legit..its scary! Alot of time and effort goes into vinyl restoration (im sure Graham can back me up on that one), its def not easy to do it right. So dont give your hard earned cash to these clowns who are most likely taking lackluster 128 - 192kbps mp3s off the net and burning them to CDR with fancy artwork. Learn vinyl restoration or just find a mint copy of what you want, and just raw needle drop to disc yourself.

Can you tell me where I can learn more about vinyl restoration. I have an ION turntable, mac computer with soundstage and soundsoap programmes but don't know enough about the different options/settings to be able to get the results I want to hear.

toto

[Graham_Start]

Originally Posted by totouk

Can you tell me where I can learn more about vinyl restoration. I have an ION turntable, mac computer with soundstage and soundsoap programmes but don't know enough about the different options/settings to be able to get the results I want to hear.

toto

I'm a Mac user myself, but the best program for the buck is Adobe Audition, which is still Windows-only... so I fire up Boot Camp for that.

Next up is getting a decent cartridge and getting it properly aligned. Something like an Audio-Technica AT440MLa. I use their AT150MLX myself.

After that comes a good phono stage (this is next for me; still using the humble one in my NAD integrated amp), and audio interface (currently using E-MU 0404 USB, because it's one of the few that works with both Mac and Windows... only works so-so with Mac though).

In my experience, one cannot rely on automatic settings to get good results. No algorithm is smart enough to consistently determine what is a pop or click and what is an attack transient or pulse wave. Automated click removal will either take out too much and/or leave too much noise in, so I do it all manually. I switch to spectral view (which makes clicks very easy to see) and zoom in until there's only about half a second of audio on screen. Then I just highlight the parts with the clicks and remove those, using various different settings depending on whether it's a loud pop or light crackle or whatever. I've mapped various keys to certain functions (move one page ahead = 5, one page back = 4, etc) so one hand stays on the keyboard and the other on the mouse. It's tedious, but the results are excellent.

[DJ Jimmy M]

Originally Posted by Graham_Start

I'm a Mac user myself, but the best program for the buck is Adobe Audition, which is still Windows-only... so I fire up Boot Camp for that.

Next up is getting a decent cartridge and getting it properly aligned. Something like an Audio-Technica AT440MLa. I use their AT150MLX myself.

After that comes a good phono stage (this is next for me; still using the humble one in my NAD integrated amp), and audio interface (currently using E-MU 0404 USB, because it's one of the few that works with both Mac and Windows... only works so-so with Mac though).

In my experience, one cannot rely on automatic settings to get good results. No algorithm is smart enough to consistently determine what is a pop or click and what is an attack transient or pulse wave. Automated click removal will either take out too much and/or leave too much noise in, so I do it all manually. I switch to spectral view (which makes clicks very easy to see) and zoom in until there's only about half a second of audio on screen. Then I just highlight the parts with the clicks and remove those, using various different settings depending on whether it's a loud pop or light crackle or whatever. I've mapped various keys to certain functions (move one page ahead = 5, one page back = 4, etc) so one hand stays on the keyboard and the other on the mouse. It's tedious, but the results are excellent.

Graham just said it all...thats the exact program I use, same method I do and everything..that sums it all up.