How did DISCO RADIO STATIONS all fizzle by fall of 79 (couldnt all be Steve Dahl)?!

[FranceJoliFan]

Here's my 2 cents:

Here in Seattle we had KFOX, which played soul/r&b. In '77/'78 you could hear disco crossovers like Dance, Dance, Dance and Boogie Oogie Oogie months before pop radio played them.

Around 1979, we had KPLZ (K-PLUS) which had an all disco format. Not just Kool & The Gang and Donna Summer. But a rotation that included One More Minute by St. Tropez, Haven't Stopped Dancing by Gonzales, Love Dancin' by Marlena Shaw. Ready For The 80's by The Village People even. I think the format lasted for about a year.

Why did it stop?

1. Disco was uncool to white teenagers by then.

It was considered unmanly to listen to it. And guys definitely made fun of it. Although at the teen discos I went to, blacks and asians still liked it. Although they played more of an r&b/disco mix. But my best friend and I would usually be the only white guys there (a handful of white girls, but overall it was 90% black and asian. And a lot of fun!)

2. Wasn't profitable.

Radio stations will play whatever brings in advertisers.

3. Disco music doesn't just depend on radio play to promote it.

Before MTV, discos were one of the few non-radio outlets to promote records. So even though the radio stations dwindled, you could still expose people to new disco. And maybe that was good enough. One of the things I always liked about the disco was that it was the "only" place you could hear a lot of this music. And that made it special.

4. Disco would have evolved no matter what.

In retrospect, disco quickly morphed into dance music. Synthesizers replaced orchestras. And the music either got funkier, or faster.

And I was happy when New Wave hit. It sounded great at the time. The Michael Zager Let's All Chant thing had run its course.

And I was happy when Italo Disco hit. And high energy. And house.

I don't like the current DJ culture. But disco and 12" singles and synthesizer/computers paved the way for it. And it will continue to evolve.

I just don't understand how rap/hip-hop has had such a long shelf life. Probably because it's cool and macho to teenage boys. Disco wasn't.

*I'll also add, Seattle has C89 FM, which claims to be the longest-running dance music station in the US (I think it started in 1981 or so, but don't quote me. I remember hearing I Ran by Flock Of Seagulls on it when it first came out. And Never Say Never by Romeo Void.) It's pretty good. But they don't play much classic dance music. I think the last time I heard non-techno on it was in 1996 when they played Touch by France Joli.

[garrybcoston]

France Joli Fan; what a great take on disco from late 70's to early 80's; in my opinion you are right on.

It seemed to be different over here in the East though; that is, the reason(s) why disco faded. It (Disco) remained cool amongst white teenagers until mid 1979 when the "disco sucks" thing in Chicago happened. I agree, Let's all Chant, and other songs did get old, but we still loved hearing them.

Thanks for the super post!

Garry

[FranceJoliFan]

Originally Posted by garrybcoston

France Joli Fan; what a great take on disco from late 70's to early 80's; in my opinion you are right on.

It seemed to be different over here in the East though.

Thanks, Garry.

The East Coast always has better R&B radio. I wish we had more non-Rap R&B radio here in the NW. I'll hear the occasional "Old School" program. But not enough classic late-70's "Soul" music. Thank goodness for Internet radio.

In the early 80's, Seattle had a great "New Wave" station called KJET (they played B-52's, Romantics, Pretenders, and some indie rock.) Lasted a few years until pop radio absorbed a lot of this music. And this format seemed to evolve into Alternative Rock (which included Grunge.) And for some reason, this format stuck. But why this, and not Disco?
Because teenage boys like this music and buy these records? (Can you imagine a 16 year old straight white boy from the suburbs buying the latest Kelly Marie album? An Eartha Kitt 12" single? A Limahl poster?)

The "Disco Sucks" thing created great peer pressure. And I think it influenced both radio DJs and listeners/buyers to avoid the disco stigma. If you still listened to disco then, other guys would call you a fag. So it took a bold stance (especially for a teenage boy) to consume disco in late 1979/80. Which made it forbidden. Which made it fun again.

Imagine if disco had quietly dwindled without the controversy. It wouldn't have the fiercely defended status that it enjoys today. Kind of like the Edsel.

: )

[garrybcoston]

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

Thanks, Garry.

The East Coast always has better R&B radio. I wish we had more non-Rap R&B radio here in the NW. I'll hear the occasional "Old School" program. But not enough classic late-70's "Soul" music. Thank goodness for Internet radio.

In the early 80's, Seattle had a great "New Wave" station called KJET (they played B-52's, Romantics, Pretenders, and some indie rock.) Lasted a few years until pop radio absorbed a lot of this music. And this format seemed to evolve into Alternative Rock (which included Grunge.) And for some reason, this format stuck. But why this, and not Disco?
Because teenage boys like this music and buy these records? (Can you imagine a 16 year old straight white boy from the suburbs buying the latest Kelly Marie album? An Eartha Kitt 12" single? A Limahl poster?)

The "Disco Sucks" thing created great peer pressure. And I think it influenced both radio DJs and listeners/buyers to avoid the disco stigma. If you still listened to disco then, other guys would call you a fag. So it took a bold stance (especially for a teenage boy) to consume disco in late 1979/80. Which made it forbidden. Which made it fun again.

Imagine if disco had quietly dwindled without the controversy. It wouldn't have the fiercely defended status that it enjoys today. Kind of like the Edsel.

: )

Disco is kind of like an antique or classic item that is outdated but still in vogue and people still buy it and enjoy it.

I was listening to Cerrone's "Cerrone's Paradise" the other day and it was like taking out my solid gold antique piece, shining it, enjoying the shine and the overall appearance of the piece but still thinking back to what it was like or what it must have been like during its "heyday."

Garry

[Jeff H]

We had a an all-disco radio station in Pittsburgh--well, actually in a suburb of Pittsburgh called Greensburg--for maybe a year in 1979. It was a little-known medium power station, so I'm sure they figured "what the hell... let's play disco." There were no live DJs; it was all automated, but on Saturday nights (I think) you could call in and make requests. It played all the obvious hits, but also plenty of records I wasn't hearing anywhere else.

I happened to be doing my internship at Pittsburgh magazine at the time, and we were instructed to come up with our own story ideas, so I interviewed the program director. My interview ended up being edited down to about two paragraphs.. and very shortly thereafter my clock radio went off one morning and instead of hearing Donna Summer I heard Dolly Parton: They had changed formats to a country station literally overnight with no warning.

[remicks]

*****

Disco's sudden assault on radio stations certainly didn't do our cause any favors.

Remember, new stations weren't created to become disco stations ... they simply displaced existing formats on existing stations. Imagine yourself in 1979, loving Supertramp and Aerosmith and all other rock and roll that was good and decent to your ears and your morning clock radio goes off and instead of Foreigner beginning your happy rock 'n roll day .... you get RING MY BELL instead.

Or another way of looking at it .....you go to your favorite disco in 1979 and overnight its become a venue for live rock bands only . How would you like it ????

This caused a lot of anger . Disco music hadn't just taken its own place in radio.... it wasn't just one more music to be found on the dial . As quickly as it had arrived ... it simultaneously just as quickly wiped out other formats loved by many for years. Gone! Eliminated !
Imagine that! NOT A GOOD PLAN for achieving universal love.

And those converted stations ... they were simply chasing ratings .... they weren't switching out if some new found love of disco. Again imagine yourself a DJ who probably loved playing rock ....going in for your shift and being told "From now on you're playing this" and being handed Chic!
The station staff and sales reps ...they probably worked at a given station at least in part because they liked the format there ....and now they had to swallow hard to go to their established accounts and say ..."your ads are no longer appearing within a rock/country/MOR format, your ads will be played amongst...gulp ....disco . You'll need to change them to fit accordingly. ... how's that grab you ?? "

In Hawaii we literally instantly had THREE disco radio stations all chasing that golden ratings ticket , each hoping to be #1 by featuring this new sound ... all three abandoning the formats they previous had and what their listeners were used to hearing.

This was all doomed for failure.


*****

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Jeff H

We had a an all-disco radio station in Pittsburgh--well, actually in a suburb of Pittsburgh called Greensburg--for maybe a year in 1979. It was a little-known medium power station, so I'm sure they figured "what the hell... let's play disco." There were no live DJs; it was all automated, but on Saturday nights (I think) you could call in and make requests. It played all the obvious hits, but also plenty of records I wasn't hearing anywhere else.

We also had Studio 97 on Easy Rockin' FM97 WFFM Sat & Sun nights. I was the host for about 9 months in '79; Jan Patton had it for several months, beginning in September 78, and Trevor Ley took over when I departed (actually he sort of pushed me out, as I learned later from a mutual acquaintance) Funniest thing I remember is that not long before my departure they made me sign an agreement to pay for the next set of studio monitors, if I blew out the tweeters again.

[garrybcoston]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

Disco's sudden assault on radio stations certainly didn't do our cause any favors.

Remember, new stations weren't created to become disco stations ... they simply displaced existing formats on existing stations. Imagine yourself in 1979, loving Supertramp and Aerosmith and all other rock and roll that was good and decent to your ears and your morning clock radio goes off and instead of Foreigner beginning your happy rock 'n roll day .... you get RING MY BELL instead.

Or another way of looking at it .....you go to your favorite disco in 1979 and overnight its become a venue for live rock bands only . How would you like it ????

This caused a lot of anger . Disco music hadn't just taken its own place in radio.... it wasn't just one more music to be found on the dial . As quickly as it had arrived ... it simultaneously just as quickly wiped out other formats loved by many for years. Gone! Eliminated !
Imagine that! NOT A GOOD PLAN for achieving universal love.

And those converted stations ... they were simply chasing ratings .... they weren't switching out if some new found love of disco. Again imagine yourself a DJ who probably loved playing rock ....going in for your shift and being told "From now on you're playing this" and being handed Chic!
The station staff and sales reps ...they probably worked at a given station at least in part because they liked the format there ....and now they had to swallow hard to go to their established accounts and say ..."your ads are no longer appearing within a rock/country/MOR format, your ads will be played amongst...gulp ....disco . You'll need to change them to fit accordingly. ... how's that grab you ?? "

In Hawaii we literally instantly had THREE disco radio stations all chasing that golden ratings ticket , each hoping to be #1 by featuring this new sound ... all three abandoning the formats they previous had and what their listeners were used to hearing.

This was all doomed for failure.


*****

Remicks:

Never, ever, looked at it from that perspective; I knew that it probably happened that way, but never examined it in that vain. I would imagine that most disco radio stations were rock and roll or other formats since they were born; and then because of disco, changed their formats (more dollars). "What goes around comes around" I guess, in part, is what also happened to disco. It could have been that many people were waiting, looking and searching for ways to exact revenge on disco; and Steve Dahl helped that cause. Anyhoo, great time, great music, and it' still alive!

Garry

[Cdnbob]

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

2. Wasn't profitable.
Radio stations will play whatever brings in advertisers.

Radio today, and probably in the last 10 years, is not about the music. Its about what format will bring in the listeners and the revenue. If you have a format that people aren't listening to, then the listeners aren't hearing your sponsors adverts. And then the adverts aren't generating sales. Its all about the sales and almightly dollar. Not about the music.

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

I don't like the current DJ culture.

What is the DJ culture? Do you mean where DJ's are as big as stars, or bigger, than the singers/musicians themselves?

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

I just don't understand how rap/hip-hop has had such a long shelf life. Probably because it's cool and macho to teenage boys.

Because rap/hiphop is about crime, anger, objectifying and belittling women, intollerance, hate, abuse, murder, rape, bling, money and sex. All things that appeal to 13-25 year old white, and black, boys who think bling, money and sex is the be all to end all and haven't matured yet to realize there is more to life.

While I'm not saying disco didn't deal with bling, money and sex, the overall message of disco was having a good time and more so about positivity. Early house music was the same. A positive vibe.

[FranceJoliFan]

Originally Posted by Cdnbob

What is the DJ culture? Do you mean where DJ's are as big as stars, or bigger, than the singers/musicians themselves?

Yes, where it becomes more about the DJ, and less about the music and dancers. When a DJ gets into a 25 minute instrumental electronic loop, leaving you suspended, thinking he's about to mix into an actual song, but it never seems to happen.

It's also the insistence on playing let's-keep-a-few-vocals-and replace-the-melody-with-stripped-down-electronica remixes. When listening becomes a chore.

I do like the ambient DJ's. Where you're at a club, expecting some free flowing sounds during cocktail hour. Or later in the night when you're cooling down. But don't deprive me of my prime time favorites.

I do admire modern DJ's for creating followings, marketing themselves, filling up clubs. And some of them play a fun mix. But many clubs could save a lot of money by feeding an Internet electronica radio station through their sound systems. Few dancers would notice any difference.

I've tried to give modern dance music more of a chance, though. Forced myself to listen to the last Justin Timberlake album. Nelly Furtado. And some of it was catchy. But to take songs that are so sparse to begin with, and strip them down even more for club remixes...why don't they just install a giant metronome next to the dancefloor and let people dance to that.

Originally Posted by Cdnbob

While I'm not saying disco didn't deal with bling, money and sex, the overall message of disco was having a good time and more so about positivity. Early house music was the same. A positive vibe.

It really was a happier music. And overall, more sophisticated. Such great musical arrangements. Gutsy voices. And memorable songs.

One thing that seemed to work on radio in the late 70's was having a station format disco during certain time slots. Especially on Saturday nights. Where they might play top 40 during the week, but would play all-disco from 9PM to 1AM.

We had a station here in Seattle that did that. And they broadcast live from an actual local nightclub. So you'd hear the mixes of the club DJ. And you could also hear the sounds of the patrons in the background. It was a real party effect. I liked it.

So maybe more stations could have kept an abbreviated disco format.