How did DISCO RADIO STATIONS all fizzle by fall of 79 (couldnt all be Steve Dahl)?!

[garrybcoston]

Glad to help you Billy with DISCO 101.

Just remember, 1980 was a pivotal year of change for the entire music industry. The album "Change," which featured Luther Vandross was right on time (1980) as a lot of artists, record labels, producers, and even musicians went through a "hard change," shock, and "caught with your drawers down" syndrome during that year. From very late 1979 on the music industry was just trying to survive and find itself. By mid 1981 everything had sorted itself out.

Being a musician I was always into all types of music, but when disco came around it caught me by storm, being that I also loved to score with women, loved to dance, and the music just swept me off my feet; add to that the fashion, disco on the radio, etc., and it was just what the Doctor ordered.

Yeah R&B and Funk came around or resurfaced and tried to fill the void, here in America, that was left by disco. I and others adjusted and accepted this change, and also the new sounding disco, that by the way went underground but was minus the violins, violas, congas, percussion, all of the old skool instruments that are slowly coming back into vogue. Then came the British Invasion with many British Artists scoring big on the top 10 in America and the world. When this happened even dance music changed with that "British sounding" edge (the pop on the 2nd and 4th beat), bass, and everything else done on keys and synths).

When the British invasion took hold (and the first song I remember that told me that this new sound would be the thing for the next few years was Hall and Oates "I can't go for that" (Circa 1981)) I embraced it, but I kept my old vinyl disco albums for 13 years or more until they were stolen (I had about 200 of those); I also played those albums often during the whole time I still had them. If I had kept them I probably would be rich by now because I had some albums that you can't even order or hear anymore. So I took on to the new pop sound of the 80's and the dress and fashion that went with it (broad shouldered shirts, coats, etc.).

New Wave came in shortly before disco exited, but it really didn't play a prime role of booting disco out of the way, and, it never really caught on to the majority of the masses. Remember, new wave did not last long (a few years in to the early 80's?). The record labels, producers, etc. saw the British invasion (pop music) as the next money maker and trend for the 80's. New Wave, along with Funk, R&B, Funk Disco, etc. were "fill in's," I believe, to see whether the public would bite and to see whether these were the next trends or fads for the 80's. It didn't work; New Wave was a little successful for a short time, but New Wave, along with Funk and R&B, just didn't fill that void, though Funk and R&B were more successful.

I liked New Wave too (Cars, Blondie, Devo, B-52's, Talking Heads); but I soon ditched this for the new pop sound that the British introduced during that time.

Though it left out some important points (in which Bernie, I and others iterated), wikipedia tells a good, not superb story of disco's rise and fall. (See Disco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

I love talking about this stuff but sometimes it brings back mixed emotions; great stuff.

Garry

[discoboy2008]

I think the religious revival and conservative reaction that occurred in late 1979 also had a lot to do with the demise of disco. People in the mid-west who were anti-gay and anti-black and other minorities saw disco as a threat to "traditional" ways. While in the 1970's people had in general not been very religious ... A lot of people suddenly became born-again Christians in the early 1980's.. even disco stars such as Gloria Gaynor and Donna Summer who were suddenly ashamed of their "evil" disco past.

I have heard numerous stories from people who were called "faggot" or "faggy" for even being suspected of liking disco. People were literally terrorized into hiding their feelings about liking disco music because of the rampant homophobia that seemed to spread around the country (sort of like the religious revival we experienced recently after 9/11 and the gay marriage nonsense).

I also have read newspaper articles from 1979-1980 about how racist and homophobic society was becoming. The whole rock/punk/new wave movement was racist and even artists who released rock albums (which virtually ever major former disco artist did) like Donna Summer were denied air time on the radio because she was black... MTV for a long time refused to play any videos with black artists.. and most of them were not doing disco.. television shows with black casts suddenly disappeared from television (Good Times, What's Happening?, etc.) and the only one that remained (The Jeffersons) was totally restructured to remove all references to racism or the realities of problems faced by real black people. To top it off, television stations around the country ran an extremely homophobic so-called documentary around the country, which only inflamed the anti-gay feeling in the country.. as one newspaper writer said at the end of 1980, "it was a good year for those who were white, straight, Christian and/or rich" but for everyone else it was a year best forgotten.

I suspect the hostage crisis in Iran, late in 1979, may have contributed to the religious/conservative revival... just as 9/11 did recently.

Interestingly, the Great Depression, in the latter part of 1930, also ushered in religious/conservative backlash against the liberal dance club life of the 1920's. Gay clubs (then known as "pansy clubs") were shut down and many prominent gay people were forced to arranged marriages of convenience or retire (e.g. the movie actors Ramon Novarro and William Haines, who openly lived with his lover, were both fired for refusing to marry a woman to hide their sexuality) and the police began to send out undercover male cops (young attractive ones) and pretend to be gay and once they were propositioned they would arrest the gay man.. race relations also suffered, whereas in the 1920's blacks and whites would often be seen together in clubs, etc. that all ended in the 1930's when a new form of improvised music called swing (played in small bands without strings) was developed which was not very danceable.. As a matter of fact, we wouldn't have any real dance music until the 1970's (I guess people don't like to dance during conservative periods, i.e. 1940's--1950's)

An interesting note is that disco balls were actually invented in the 1920's. I saw them in the nightclub of a 1927 German film The film in on google Video at: (you can see the disco balls at 59:01 ignore the modern soundtrack, the film was originally silent and the person who uploaded it put the wrong date on the film)

Berlin 1930

By the way, the same xenophobic attitude to "illegals" we have seen recently happened in the 1930's when large numbers of Mexicans were deported... seems like people tend to act pretty much in the same ways. They deported such huge numbers that a "Bracero" program had to be instituted in the 1940's because once the economy recovered from the Depression, no one could be found to do low-skilled jobs such as farm labor. How ironic that people today are doing the same thing again ... seems like when any misfortune happens it brings out the worst in most people

[garrybcoston]

Hmmm Discoboy; never looked at that part or section as one of the reasons why disco went away, that is, the race thing and color card; you could be right but I do have some doubts.

I do know that those that were against disco were mostly white rockers, and later (toward 1979) punkers, and new wave as you say. The blacks, gays, hispanics, and whites who were cool and open minded without the race stigma were the ones that loved and revered disco; so though I have some doubts about this there is another part of me that is totally open and receptive to this theory because of the sectionalization of the music industry and music in general after disco was gone.

It's funny though that this country, in majority and large part, was basically to blame for disco's demise; the disco bashing, etc. started in America. It never surfaced overseas and really didn't spread to the other countries until it was clear that disco was on the way out in America; so......whatever happens in America, and this was especially true 30 years or more ago, the rest of the world follows suit, especially when it came to music. So America kills disco and the rest of the world says, oh well, that's it for disco.

Kind of sad how we build things up and tear them down in this country; not only music but people as well.

But the race thing could be true. I don't know whether it is totally true and I would not go out on a limb and say that the race thing was "THE ONLY" thing that killed disco, but it could have contributed largely to disco's demise.

Garry

[discophil]

Originally Posted by markydefad

In San Francisco, as I remember it....in the fall of 1979--after "My Sharona" topped the Pop charts for numerous weeks....DISCO and ONLY DISCO stations changed their formats...some of these were relatively new to the genre...my beloved soft rock station [KCBS-I think] that I listened to religiously that played James Taylor/Joni Mitchell/Bonnie Raitt/Carole King/Jackson Browne/ Eagles/Linda Ronstadt/Fleetwood Mac/Joan Armatrading/Phoebe Snow...etc....but only the "mellow" tracks...changed to full on 24/7 DISCO in late 1978---by the fall of 1979, it dropped that format.

KSFX had always been the soul station and played the urban side of disco--I think they stayed with it..since the new music being released was exactly in their genre.

Then came New Wave.

But after 1980--you could only hear Pop & R&B disco on the radio in San Francisco...we still danced at Trocadero--but the music that was popular--Lime/Cut Glass/Vivien Vee/Sylvester/Patrick Cowley/Tantra did not cross over to radio--for the most part...it was now "underground" dance music--known only to people who went to clubs.

That's how I remember it in SF.

I was in SF in the 70s and 80s as well. This is close to how I remember it, too. KSFX (tagline was "The Beat of the Bay!") was the 100% disco station that I listened to. My memory of the change in format came sometime in the Spring of 1980. Once an hour they would insert Kiss' "Beth" which would totally disrupt the mood. That's when I started to suspect something was wrong. By Fall, I think it was, KSFX changed format and it was either right then, or soon afterwards, became a total hardrock station. I was crushed.

I then had to go AM and tune into 1310 KDIA. They played from the Soul, R&B charts mostly, which included disco/dance tunes.

It was a very depressing time.

[Billy72]

Very interesting posts from all of you. I really enjoyed all the historical perspective between the great depression changing the roaring 20s and the issues during the disco era. Always love hearing personal stories of what they saw, as yall gave.

I remember when The Britsh New Wave sound hit radio around April 1982. The Human League's hit "Don't you want me" attributed alot to that. Before radio stations were either album rock, adult contemporary, or pop top 40 (which was Olivia Newton John, Air Supply, Journey etc). In april 1982 a new station started playing Devo, Human League, Asia (all the MTV material); and later in 82 came Duran Duran, Men at Work, ABC, Thompson Twins etc.

.

[discophil]

Originally Posted by Billy72

I remember when The Britsh New Wave sound hit radio around April 1982. The Human League's hit "Don't you want me" attributed alot to that. Before radio stations were either album rock, adult contemporary, or pop top 40 (which was Olivia Newton John, Air Supply, Journey etc). In april 1982 a new station started playing Devo, Human League, Asia (all the MTV material); and later in 82 came Duran Duran, Men at Work, ABC, Thompson Twins etc.

.

That reminds me....

You know the group La Flavour? The folks who brought us that fantastic tune "Mandolay"? They had another song on that album titled, "Can't Kill The Beat." It was a GREAT tune regarding the supposed "death" of disco. One of the lyrics says (from memory so I might not get it exactly right!),

They say that Disco is dead.
They say it's bad for your head.
They say we've all gone New Wave
Music is saved.

Man, that's exactly what it was like, wasn't it?

[Billy72]

The name La Flavour sound kinda familiar, but I don't know the song. I may have heard one of their tunes on XM and seen the name or something.

Yeah it sounds like the times alight. You know whats really funny, when 'punk rockers' said Disco Sucks; man, its hard to find a punk rock song where more than three chords are played lol. I can't stand punk rock it's way too repetitive. Same goes for lots of modern dance music imo, and I never dug 'high energy' dance for the same reasons. Like 'Lime' for example; the tunes start out with a cool groove but after a minute or so, I'm thinking damnit; couldnt they change the rhythm up a bit! No offense to anyone lol, just my opinion.

GARY, you mention "I can't go for that" by Hall and Oats; I love Hall and Oats, and this song is one my favs. Awesome rhythmic quality (which they had in so many). ACTUALLY, this is one of the few bands that I PREFER their early 80s music over their 70s stuff. I LOVE their 70s music; but their early 80s stuff is IMMACULATE. Other hit favorites; "Maneater"; "Method of Modern Love"; " I can't go for that"; "Kiss on my List"; "One on One"; and "Out of Touch" (man this one really jams)!

Yeah its too bad The New Wave scene had to bash Disco. However, there was alot of talent in the new wave scene (as you may agree Discophil); like Gary Nueman, The Cars, Joe Jackson etc. Then came the 'catchy new wave radio tunes' from Duran Duran, Men at Work (Fav. "Overkill"), Big Country, Toto (my fav. was "Africa"), ABC, Talk Talk, Thompson Twins; all the stuff I grew up with in Junior High. I have always loved the early 80s, and must mention 'Quarterflash' and 'The Motels' (awesome early 80s bands with female vocals). One of the BEST DANCE artists IMO (83-85 era) was Madonna. Damn, she had some good dance numbers in her first few years. "Everybody"; "Physical Attraction"; "Im Burning Up for you Love"; "Lucky Star"; "Borderline"; "Get into the Groove"; "angel"; and I LOVE the 12 inch version of "Pappa Don't Preach" (you heard it?)
After her 85 LP I really didnt get into her music; her earlier stuff was SOOO SEXY and IT SEEMS SO DISCOTECH (or post-disco sound). Which makes me wonder; I bet Madonna was a Disco lovin chic; who never really downed Disco in the 80s (so it seems to me). WHERE YOU OR ANYONE OUT THERE A BIG FAN OF HER EARLIER STUFF?

BTW, I HAD A MAJOR CRUSH on Madonna in Junior High School. Then she cut her hair in the Pappa Don't Preach/Live to Tell (sean Penn era 85-86); and I was crushed. I still loved those tunes, but missed her hair, black rubber bracelets lol (her whole basic look I mean). She looked older; outta my 'school age' league lol. Plus I dont like short hair on women lol. I'LL NEVER, EVER FORGET when I FINALLY saw her in PENTHOUSE (which I had been waiting months for); it was the summer of 85, a HIGH (or hot) POINT of the summer lol.

[discophil]

Originally Posted by Billy72

The name La Flavour sound kinda familiar, but I don't know the song. I may have heard one of their tunes on XM and seen the name or something.

Yeah it sounds like the times alight. You know whats really funny, when 'punk rockers' said Disco Sucks; man, its hard to find a punk rock song where more than three chords are played lol. I can't stand punk rock it's way too repetitive. Same goes for lots of modern dance music imo, and I never dug 'high energy' dance for the same reasons. Like 'Lime' for example; the tunes start out with a cool groove but after a minute or so, I'm thinking damnit; couldnt they change the rhythm up a bit! No offense to anyone lol, just my opinion.

Ha ha! I couldn't agree more! I remember starving for good Disco music after 1981. I would search everywhere I could and you're right, the HiNRG stuff was just too repetatve for my tastes. It wasn't bad, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the pure disco that I loved. No symphony. No strings. No sweeping vocals. There was one song, however, from that era that I really liked: Cinema's "I Love Men." Do you know how hard it was to like that song and play it being a heterosexual young male (late teens, early 20s) chasing girls but living near San Fransisco! LOL!!!

At any rate, I still get pissed off when I recall that the reason so many of my peers in the late 70s, early 80s, hated disco is because it was "jungle" music, too repetative. And then I listen to music today and wonder, "What the hell? This junk is FAR more repetative and 'ethnic' than ANYTHING I listened to back in the day!" So glad for forums like this one, online radio stations (like Diva Radio) and my record collection!

[garrybcoston]

I know what you mean discophil; it was like going through a permanent drought with no food or water, especially your favorite food and clean cold water; YOU CAN'T FIND THEM ANYWHERE when there is a drought!

No strings, no congas, no percussion, no horn section, no guitar, no bass, no "real" drums, and the vocalists/singers singing with almost no emotion whatsoever, and just dead, bland keyboard or synthesizer keys. It got you dancing, but if your Mom or Dad died, wouldn't you miss them even though you got adopted?

I try to forget 1981 and on because those were lean years for dance music; but.......I played my disco vinyls up until I had them stolen in the early 1990's, played them in the closet and underground!

Anyhoo.......love this forum. Kudos to Bernie and the Moderators for a super job.

Garry

[Billy72]

Enjoyed the posts yall. You know its obvious after listening to the charts in early-mid 81 (on XM radio K.C. Kasum) that most of 81 was in a confused state musically. There were some great tunes in there (including pop country hits); but its funny to hear the WHOLE TOP 40 charts now from that era, because alot of the shit that hit the radio was sooo aweful! Its funny though, later part of 79 saw the same trend (hits by 60s folk stars etc. that were washed out nonsense). HOWEVER, 1980 (for whatever reason I cant explain) was a great year (IMO) for 'last minute' disco smashes; and LOADS of great light rock; pop country etc.

BY the later part of 81 I think things had 'shaped up'; Journey; Olivia' etc. It seems there was a 'VOID' in the music industry after JULY 79 (DAHL says it all; WHICH WAS QUESTION POST of mine). HOW THE HELL COULD THE MUSIC INDUSTRY BE SCARED OF thousands of ROCK FANS at a BASEBALL GAME burning DISCO records?! Alright, enough said lol!