To Philly or Not To Philly

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Sorry, Remicks, even though the song was written by Philly guys, the record was Simon Soussan. Now if you had included Go Tu Go Disco or Party Girl, then you would have been on the right track! :)

Disco Funk

well damn !!

OK here ya go :


(as an aside ... the other one is still the one to play ! )

BTW .....so you consider John Davis ( I know he's rooted there) to have the " Philly Sound" specifically ?


*****

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

well damn !!

OK here ya go :


(as an aside ... the other one is still the one to play ! )

BTW .....so you consider John Davis ( I know he's rooted there) to have the " Philly Sound" specifically ?


*****

John Davis totally had the Philly Sound. He used all of the same MFSB/Salsoul Orchestra guys. By the late 70s, everybody's sound was changing, so that classic philly sound had all but disappeared. If you listen to MFSB's Mysteries Of The World LP, it doesn't sound anything like the early PIR records. I think the only record that still sounded like old school Philly in '79 was the Trammps 'The Whole World Is Dancing'. That record sounded like it could have been released in '76. Otherwise, almost all of the labels had modified that original, classic Philly sound, in order to keep current.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

I just discovered a really nice philly record from 1979 produced by Jerry Ross on RCA. It's a track called 'You Gave Me Somebody To Love' by Purple Reign (no relation to Prince ;)

Someone uploaded an audio sample of it onto the internet:

You Gave Me Somebody To Love

You can also hear a sample of it on iTunes if you use that service.

The flip side, 'Can't Keep A Good Man Down', is also a nice philly dancer.

I don't know if it was RCA wanting to go to Philly for another dance track, or just Jerry Ross happened to be producing a philly record and RCA picked it up because of him. Either way, it shows the somewhat classic philly sound still had legs.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

John Davis totally had the Philly Sound. He used all of the same MFSB/Salsoul Orchestra guys. By the late 70s, everybody's sound was changing, so that classic philly sound had all but disappeared. If you listen to MFSB's Mysteries Of The World LP, it doesn't sound anything like the early PIR records. I think the only record that still sounded like old school Philly in '79 was the Trammps 'The Whole World Is Dancing'. That record sounded like it could have been released in '76. Otherwise, almost all of the labels had modified that original, classic Philly sound, in order to keep current.

Disco Funk

I'm really going have to think "philly" the next time I give John Davis a go. Without trying , I just have never heard it that way.... I see he uses Don Reynaldo on strings on AIN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU . Isthat always the case ?


_______________________


OK ... how about

CALLA



Nice 1976 Philly disco tune



*****

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

I'm really going have to think "philly" the next time I give John Davis a go. Without trying , I just have never heard it that way.... I see he uses Don Reynaldo on strings on AIN'T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU . Isthat always the case ?


_______________________


OK ... how about

CALLA

Nice 1976 Philly disco tune



*****

Nice, Remicks, I forgot about Calla. Yup, that Persuaders record is a good one (I'm referring to the album as a whole). Love that 'Two Women' track.

Another label and artist:

Roadshow - Al Wilson - Count The Days. This is the album with the track Earthquake. A philly production, although I forget who produced it.

GNP Crescendo - La Pregunta - Shangri La. A John Davis production.

Back to good ole JD:

How come you never considered him to be Philly? Is it the mixing or the instrumentation? Do you consider Sigler and Instant Funk to be part of the Philly sound?

You should check out the early John Davis stuff, and believe me, you'll hear the Philly sound:

Columbia - Philly Devotions - tracks like Just Can't Say Goodbye; Hurts So Bad

Midland International - Touch Of Class - I'm In Heaven

Buddah - Monday After - Merry Go Round

Polydor/Old Town - Arthur Prysock - When Love Is New

And of course William DeVaughn's Be Thankful For What You Got LP.

He was as philly as the other guys, he just changed his sound into his own, the same way Dexter Wansel made his own sound, Sigler had his own sound, T Life had his own sound, etc... But they were all Philadelphia-based artists. You hear the Sweethearts of Sigma singing on those John Davis tracks, so that should be the giveaway that he's part of the Philly sound! The only projects of his that I have trouble hearing the Philly sound, for some reason, is the Carol Douglas records he worked on.

Disco Funk

[Simon White]

DF, agreed John Davis productions totally had 'the sound' no question about it. I love the Touch Of Class album, all his Philly Devotions stuff is brilliant and also his work with Arthur Prysock.... Remicks maybe these productions of John's are earlier than the the ones you're familiar with? .

Couple more to throw into the pot.....Flashlight on Philly Groove...The Tymes (who have a great Philly history) 'Trustmaker' album on RCA...part recorded at Sigma with MFSB and with the awesome 'If It Rains On You It Rains On Me (Everybody's Under The Same Cloud) and Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes 1981 post Teddy P MCA album 'All Things Happen In Time'


A look back even further and a bit more history...

'You Gave Me Somebody To Love' was originally recorded by The Dreamlovers by Mr Ross and released on both Warner Brothers records Mercury in the mid 60's. It even got covered in the UK by British crooner Vince Hill !
Apart from having hits on their own, The Dreamlovers backed Chubby Checker on most of his Twist hits (Philly again) and later recorded with David Morris as Brothers Guiding Light on the brilliant 'Getting Together' which is very Philly sounding. David also had the very Philly 'Midnight Lady/Jack In A Box' on Buddah and while I'm thinking of it here are another two great Buddah tracks for inclusion, Joe Anderson 'You & I' and The Charisma Band 'Ain't Nothing Like Your Love' which is an expensive 45 !

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

I just discovered a really nice philly record from 1979 produced by Jerry Ross on RCA. It's a track called 'You Gave Me Somebody To Love' by Purple Reign (no relation to Prince ;)

Someone uploaded an audio sample of it onto the internet:

You Gave Me Somebody To Love

You can also hear a sample of it on iTunes if you use that service.

The flip side, 'Can't Keep A Good Man Down', is also a nice philly dancer.

I don't know if it was RCA wanting to go to Philly for another dance track, or just Jerry Ross happened to be producing a philly record and RCA picked it up because of him. Either way, it shows the somewhat classic philly sound still had legs.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

Thanks for those song recommendations, Simon. I have one of those Northern Soul CD compilations, the one with a bunch of David Morris tracks (Midnight Lady sounds like a rough mix version), and they gave the connection between Dreamlovers and Brothers Guiding Light. When I first heard the Dreamlovers version of Getting Together, I thought it was a parody of the David Morris version. The vocals sounded so amateurish, lacking harmony or smoothness.

The earlier John Davis productions sounded similar to all the other philly guys, but I think by '76, he tried to make his own trademark sound. By '77, he had his own bass player, Vince Fay, who had a distinctive bass sound (if you hear all of the JD songs from '77/'78, the sound of the bass guitar is the same, and differs from the Sugar 'Bear' Foreman's playing style on the Arthur Prysock All My Life LP). The way he mixed the instruments was also different. Whereas the other philly producers liked to take advantage of the echo chamber and have lush, spacious mixes, I noticed that John Davis' mixes sounded lacked echo, almost like they were rough mixes. The highs on the drums were also muted, with the hi-hat not sounding loud and crisp like other philly producers, and the low end frequencies of the snare, tom, and kick drums got really cranked up, hence the heavier sounding drums.

Flashlight was a Philly Groove/Salsoul project that was really a group called Quickest Way Out. I think a song or two that appeared on the Flashlight self-titled LP were released on Warner Bros as Quickest Way Out singles, like Thank You Baby.

I think The Tymes recorded a few more albums fully or partially at Philadelphia.

Disco Funk

[Solsoul]

HI all, this is my first post, and it had to be here, on one of my passions, the philly sound.

This is definetely a great great post cause there are some brilliant stuff out of PIR and Salsoul releases!

Here are a couple i think had to be mentioned:

THE MODULATIONS
BUDDAH RECORDS LP 1975




and another CAPITOL single soundin' a little philly..

GENTLE PERSUASION
FALLING IN LOVE AGAIN
CAPITOL 7"-1978?

[Disco Funk]

Good call. Buddah had a lot of philly productions. The Futures, who were on PIR originally, left and did a few philly singles before hooking up with Tony Camillo, I think, for that Castles In The Sky LP. They then returned to PIR for a couple of nice LPs.

Gentle Persuasion is philly, I just don't remember who produced them. It wasn't the usual guys. They have one song on that self titled LP of their's with the word 'philadelphia' in it.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

DF : How come you never considered him to be Philly? Is it the mixing or the instrumentation? Do you consider Sigler and Instant Funk to be part of the Philly sound?

Bunny Sigler .....a marginal yes (depends on who else is also on the project)
Instant Funk .... no

John Davis .....When I think of , let's see how to say this ...... a less soulful ... oh, hell .... a white disco sound ..... his music comes to mind .... It's just thinner / upper end sounding ... I'll have to re- listen to his earlier stuff .......Philly Devotions have that Thom Bell / Hugo and Luigi sound to me.

Speaking of Thom Bell :
Time for :

MCA



does this one make the cut ???



*****

[ashley]

.. before this thread vanishes forever, I must mention a 7" 45rpm single from 1976 by Tapestry on Capitol called "It's not the world that's messed up (it's the people in it)" .. this was the follow-up to the very commercial & still much available club hit "Life is what you make it" .. .. "It's not the world" is by far the better record, sounding much like the Intruders or the O'Jays at their uptempo best .. Unfortunately to have a disco hit back in 1976 it was important to promote the record with, at the very least, an extended promotional 12" single .. For some reason Capitol only released this on a small 7" 45 .. so it was overlooked by the clubs & disco djs .. The radio stations ignored the tune as it was an obvious club record ( think "Message in our music" meets "Bad luck" ) .. which is a huge shame, as it's easily one of the finest philly records ever made .. Needless to say, British soul collectors quickly spotted this top drawer tune & zoomed 'round America buying every available copy .. it's now impossible to find anywhere (even the last few expensive copies have vanished) .. beautiful, rare & much prized .. another contender for rarest disco record .. I've put my 7" copy on to CD-R .. so if anybody here is desperate to hear it, I'll send them a copy for free ( .. I don't think Capitol Records will care, as they did so little to promote the tune 32 years ago .. )

[Disco Funk]

I didn't know they had a follow-up on Capitol! That definitely would be a cool track to hear. Don't worry, I'm not asking for it. I'll find it somehow. Thanks for the tip-off!

By the way, if you like Tapestry/Leon Lee, there's a really great funky disco track called 'He Was A Man'. There are two versions floating around. On iTunes you can get the one credit to Tapestry, which features a solo lead vocal; and on 45 (I forget the label), the same track is credited to Leon Lee and features a choral lead vocal(!); i.e. no solo vocal section. It's a great funky dance track from '74.

Disco Funk

[ashley]

.. thanks again Disco_Funk .. I have the track "He was a man/part one" on a nice n' cheap double CD compilation on U.K. Bestway Records called "Soulful Mooves" .. the track was apparently released in the U.K. as a 45rpm back in the day, with part 2 on the b-side .. Is this the same Leon Lee that was a member of Peoples Choice? .. and more importantly, do you know if part 2 is just an instrumental? .. if part 2 is a genuine extension of the song it may be worth purchasing the 45rpm single ..

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. thanks again Disco_Funk .. I have the track "He was a man/part one" on a nice n' cheap double CD compilation on U.K. Bestway Records called "Soulful Mooves" .. the track was apparently released in the U.K. as a 45rpm back in the day, with part 2 on the b-side .. Is this the same Leon Lee that was a member of Peoples Choice? .. and more importantly, do you know if part 2 is just an instrumental? .. if part 2 is a genuine extension of the song it may be worth purchasing the 45rpm single ..

Leon Lee is the lead singer for Tapestry. It was Tyrone Brunson who led People's Choice. Part 2 of the 45 and of the track on iTunes are both continuations of the same track, not instrumental mixes of the A side, although the amount of vocals is reduced. The one credited to Tapestry sounds different from the Leon Lee 45. Outside of the vocals, it sounds like the same instrumentation was used on both versions. The 45, which is on the Crossover label, has a weird, long fade-in, whereas the iTunes version has a cold intro.

I have that Soulful Moves compilation. Great stuff on there.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

I just came across a really weird 12". It's on the Able label and is credited on both sides as Dynamite Band 'She's Dynamite'. That particular track, which is on one side, has writing credits of Jacques Morali and Henri Belolo, so it pretty sounds like the philly/MFSB-era group that those guys used for the Ritchie Family on Brazil and Life Is Music before switching to the Village People band. It's a male vocal group, by the way.

The flip side is a really bland cover of Star Wars. It doesn't sound like it was even produced by the same guys (if 'She's Dynamite' was a Morali/Belolo/Ritchie Rome production). It sounds like an exact copy of the Meco arrangement (shooting laser beams, swirling strings), but there are vocals (male and female). It doesn't sound Philly at all.

Anyway, She's Dynamite is definitely a cool track to look out for if you're looking for any obscure mid to late 70s Philly stuff featuring the Ritchie Rome strings.

Disco Funk