Why Was There Never a Backlash Against Rap/Hip-Hop?

[markydefad]

The prevailing theory is that white male hetero's were threatened by Disco cause it came from an underground culture and appealed to Gays, Blacks & women. It had to be destroyed. Burn them records, dudes. :evil:

Why was there never a backlash against the Hip-hop culture? Even though it's a black phenomenon (better than GAY anyday, you fag), is it because the raging testosterone pumping in the movement seems to have appealed to the white boys and made them envious?

Whiteboys are talkin' black, dressin' black; pop radio is now essentially what used to be called urban. Whiteboy N-Syncher Justin Timberlake talks like he's from Harlem when interviewed at Awards shows.

Wut up wit dat? :roll:

[QUINNY]

Marky: I think one vital thing, is that many Disco records were made by relatively old,contented men and women, whereas Rap and Hip hop has been largely made by young angry men and women. How can you have a backlash against the guys who are rebelling in the first place? If it's been accepted it's through the mainstream having to come to terms with the commercial sense of embracing it. The whole movement has been too strong to resist.
Let's be honest here. There's many a disco record that sucked and didn't appeal to young people at all (and got played to death on radio?). Disco was too middle of the road and musically safe to be fully lionised.

[Outsider]

The reason there hasn't been a backlash against rap is simple: It would cause a major race war. That's why rap (and the gang culture that surrounds it) is so embraced by the mainstream. The same goes for white people. That's also why music critics embrace it so much. Nobody wants to be called a racist. I hate rap, but that doesn't make me a racist. But too many people are small-minded. :evil:

[Robbie]

The reason why there has never been a backlash against hip-hop music is because to do so would be considered "racism", for some strange reason.

Disco received a backlash because the rock critics of the 60's were still prevalent in the 70's, and dictated their attitudes towards any kind of music that had a universal appeal, and didn't require any major thought or analysis. In all honesty, despite the frequent familiar faces of certain artists of that genre (Donna Summer, Village People) who made a number of memorable records, disco was far and away a disposable music form that depended on anonymous artists and generally a repetitive musical form. Despite the fact that some artists involved with the genre diverted away from the conventional (Giorgio Moroder, Gino Soccio, Cerrone, Boris Midney), they were limited only to the clubs and their hard-core audience. The majority of disco music never made the pop or R&B charts, and only the most commercial-sounding records became hit songs and recognized by the listening public. Not just mere songs, but anthemic in hindsight, and that kind of response was not felt with rock or funk, which was becoming a critic's darling by the time disco grew in popularity.

Rock, which were so used to being lionized, finally had met its match with disco. Perhaps disco's growing popularity was influencing rock before people knew it. Fleetwood Mac went from ecletic to conventional, Peter Frampton went "live" and became a sex symbol, The Eagles, and other up-and-coming groups were paving the way for what would be called "arena rock". This music was not necessarily loved by the rock critics, and in some ways some of these artists knew what it was like to be slammed by the same people who did the same with disco.

But the rock critics who made names for themselves in the 60's still ruled the roost in the 70's and made their feelings about disco heard. Some disco artists, however, proved that they were capable of going beyond the established landscape of the genre. Donna Summer sang with some rock groups in Boston in the late 60's before moving to Germany and singing/acting in musicals and paving the way for "Eurodisco" with "Love To Love You Baby" in 1975. After scoring with her disco numbers, many of which were worldwide hits, she released "Bad Girls" in 1979. Neil Bogart, then head of Casablanca Records, wasn't so keen on releasing "Hot Stuff" as a single because of its rock sound. Donna insisted, and the song went to #1. The album that came with it not only went to #1 but also opened Donna to a wide variety of music listeners, including those who listened to rock. Critics that had previously dismissed her were dumbfounded and awestruck by her versatility, and she became a bonafide star to emerge from the disco genre.

Some artists who sang disco songs often said that they weren't "disco singers", but sang to disco music. This might be a clue that even artists of that genre didn't want to be pigeonholed. Disco was not a genre bred from longevity. It was, for the most part, a reworking of 60's R&B and popular music with modern arrangements. Unlike other genres, like rock, R&B, jazz, classical, disco seemed like a fish out of water that had no place to find shelter.

Even with the homosexual undertones that was a part of disco, like the goings-on at Studio 54, Sylvester, Village People, e.g., the mainstream music audience was unaware of this by the time the movie "Saturday Night Fever" became a part of the popular culture. For most of them, "disco" meant John Travolta and the Bee Gees. Even if disco records had been major hits before SNF was released, it took those two elements to make "disco" a force to be reckoned with.

By the late 70's, it became the biggest thing since the Beatles arrived on our shores. Any kind of music was set to a disco arrangement. TV and movies had scenarios which included a disco and disco music. Disco was also affecting the way people dressed and how people were living their lives. Whatever happened, disco was universal, and could appeal-and appealed-to anyone. This might have been the only genre of music to accomplish such a feat.

Perhaps it was that single accomplishment that spawned such a backlash. Hip-hop has never suffered a backlash because it is homogenic in its artists and mentality (black), and caters to a distinct audience. Plus, the content of the music is excused by critics because of its allegiance to black idealism. Had Public Enemy or 2-Live Crew's music been recorded by Whites, rearranged in a different genre of music, it would've been banned before release and the artists would've been forgotten forever. These artists were able to express themselves because they have the privilege to do so in today's music world. Some do not.

[NickNack]

Originally Posted by Outsider

The reason there hasn't been a backlash against rap is simple: It would cause a major race war. That's why rap (and the gang culture that surrounds it) is so embraced by the mainstream. The same goes for white people. That's also why music critics embrace it so much. Nobody wants to be called a racist. I hate rap, but that doesn't make me a racist. But too many people are small-minded. :evil:

This reasoning is partly true and I'm sure the race-card was played when, in the beginning, white people were bitching about the music. But, that wouldn't wash when we black folks started complaining, and we have and still do. So, why is rap in all it's forms still here? $$$$$, money, and more $$$$$.

The disco backlash was 'allowed' to happen because it was anti-gay, anti-black and nobody gave a crap because money wasn't being made. Now you have a music style that is anti-gay, espouses racism and civil disobedience, chauvinistic and demeaning to all women and flourishing. Why? Because young people are eating it up and spending millions of dollars to prove it. In this capitalist society, you can call "the man" any damn thing you please as long as you "show him the money". He'll even defend the 'poor little nigger' in court who called him a 'cracker' because he just sold his millionth copy.

America baby --- money talks, bullshit walks.

[nrgbeat]

Originally Posted by markydefad

The prevailing theory is that white male hetero's were threatened by Disco cause it came from an underground culture and appealed to Gays, Blacks & women. It had to be destroyed. Burn them records, dudes. :evil:

Why was there never a backlash against the Hip-hop culture? Even though it's a black phenomenon (better than GAY anyday, you fag), is it because the raging testosterone pumping in the movement seems to have appealed to the white boys and made them envious?

Whiteboys are talkin' black, dressin' black; pop radio is now essentially what used to be called urban. Whiteboy N-Syncher Justin Timberlake talks like he's from Harlem when interviewed at Awards shows.

Wut up wit dat? :roll:

I agree with you Marky. Rap has a rebellious quality that teenage boys can identify with. It's tough and macho and kids think it's cool.

Disco has more of a feminine, pretty quality. I don't think too many teenage boys would be caught dead singing "I Need A Man".

[paul]

Before I respond specifically to Marky's question, I have to respond to some of the comments I just read. I wasn't exactly a grandpa waitin' for my social security check in order to buy my disco records. I was a teenager when I first heard the music and had my first discotheque experience. I and I suspect many of my contemporaries didn't give a shit about the age, sex or race of the artist for the most part. I also take exception to idea that these artist were generally significantly older than some of the pop stars from various generations.
If the music had such a weak appeal to young people then I and many others must have missed that memo.
OK Marky, my take on your question is that I see rap in it's origins as appealing to "those people" in the eyes of it's critics. Believe me, the critics were there. I heard from them but because it was seen as a black thing having a tiny niche, it didn't seem as threatening to the traditional rock guy. Disco crossed so many phony ethnic categories and enjoyed such popular success and dominance that the rock guys got their panties in a bunch. Salt to the wound was added when artist like Rod Stewart did disco and his song was popular in the 'hood.
Rap however seemed not to pose that sort of threat because the music drew from black urban life.
Ironically of course we see a lot of white males into rap and hip hop. Sometimes I think we are at the end times because I'm black and jamming to disco in my ride. The car next to me has a white kid pumpin' Snoop!
Part of the reason I suspect you don't see the tirade against rap by white males today is the whole image of rap. Every punk in town, black and white included, thinks he's a bad ass and rap encourages that attitude. That white male core group in particular that served as fertile ground for misogynistic, homophobic and nigga talkin' disco sucks trash in the disco era have what they want in a lot of rap and hip-hop.

[sirius]

Dear Friends!
I think, markydefad described it very well: HIP-HOP is more
male music, similar like rock-music. That´s not a real
development or something revolutionary, it´s the same
shit that all the times happens in every situation in society.
The only difference, that it is black-music...but that makes
no difference to me. The only real important woman in
this genre seems to be MISSY ELLIOTT, and that´s for
sure not enough.
Does HOUSE-MUSIC has not a similar problem in the US
like Disco? EMINEM said, he hates Techno.

For me as intergalactic human being HIP-HOP is not the
real kind of music to help the human race!!!
Cosmic Love & Kisses From SIRIUS & DARKTUNES

[Robbie]

That white male core group in particular that served as fertile ground for misogynistic, homophobic and nigga talkin' disco sucks trash in the disco era have what they want in a lot of rap and hip-hop.[/quote]


To the contrary; black "doo wop" music of the 1950's consisted of material that would be considered "misogynistic" today. If you take into consideration a great deal of the music the Rolling Stones put out, they were wholly influenced by black artists. I find your remarks about White males to be predictable and flat.

[NickNack]

Originally Posted by Robbie

To the contrary; black "doo wop" music of the 1950's consisted of material that would be considered "misogynistic" today.

I won't comment on the 'white males and disco', we've done that. But, 'BLACK' "doo wop"? Ummm... if I remember, and from what I've seen on PBS recently, doo wop was not 'blacks only'. The "sound" was street/urban --- but many of the groups were white or even mixed, which in the 50's should have raised quite a few hairs. It didn't because of the love of the music.

[paul]

Just a brief footnote to my diatribe.
With all this talk about rap/hip hop, I pulled out my "Death Row Greatest Hits" cd. So at lunch I'm doing my gangsta lean and groovin' to Snoop's and Dr Dre's Gin & Juice when a mom in her minivan pulled up next to me and asked about getting that cd. To put it in context, this is a generally white upper middle class area in San Diego called La Jolla. Anyway she kinda caught off me guard but I gave her a quick explanation about the cd because she wanted it (Had I have more time, it would been more like a quickie that I would have given her.She wasn't half bad :) ). Anyway, I guess I shouldn't have limited todays appeal to that music to African-Americans and young white males. I think a certain kind of rawness appeals to white women as well.

[Nano]

I'm more with the "minority" argument. That is, rap (I prefer to call it hip-hop) don't make much scandal because is mostly done by blacks and for blacks (if Interscope wants to crossover, that's another story, but I don't think many white people understand what the hell are they talking about). Scandal comes in big when a white artist (i.e. Eminem) does hip-hop without "cleaning" its face. It gets much more publicized, because for every time an Outkast or Wu-Tang Clan song gets played on the radio, Eminem is played 50 times. And that's because the label guys (say, Interscope) think the white guys cross over whatever "race" limit is in music today.
It's not so different from 40-50 years ago. Nobody complained then against "Work with me Annie" and other R&B hits because the press -managed by whites- didn't listen to them. When Bill Haley did a clean-up version, it was all OK, success. When Elvis moved his pelvis or Jerry Lee married his cousin, all hell break loose. In the Sixties it was Beatles & Stones, and later the Beatles shocked the media by "passing" to the dirty guys side, which mainly meaned they shook off the clean-up image imposed on them by Brian Epstein (suits and ties instead of leathercoats, ingénue lyrics, etc.).
With disco, maybe the backlash was in reverse: rock and roll had invented their own press (because the main press hated them) and had an image to stand to: the rebel. But disco was not about rebellion: like many true pop music forms (R&B, soul, bubblegum), it was basically happy music. And since 1967 at least, if you were white and your music didn't go for rebellion (against your parents, society, you name it) you had negative press. So, disco suffered the same reaction as bubblegum in the rock critic's minds. Add to this some funk fans disgusted at what they saw as clean-up funk, and you get the picture.
But I see those things from far away; maybe you remember a Donna Summer or Gloria Gaynor "Rolling Stone" cover from those days. If that thing exist, please tell me: I would like to read those articles!
(P.S.: evidently "Rolling Stone" really did change. Now their covers go from Spice Girls to Britney Spears and Ricky Martin! For me, that's far scarier than rap.)

[DJ Jimmy M]

Well, here's my oppinion on all of it. Rap music was originaly sprung from disco, after all, the first rap released in 1979 was an experiment by a disco group on a disco/soul album (The Sugar Hill Gang) and then they became pure rap after. Rap was ok when it first came out and through the mid 80s and was good party music with harmless silly rhymes. But in the late 80s is when it started to all become a way for the ignorent ghetto trash people to use it as a way to cry about their shit and start influincing people to "rape bitches", "kill da white boy", "nigga dis, nigga dat"... you get the point. It makes me fucking sick that rap/hip hop is now the music loved by about 70% of the USA (dunno what the rest of the world is like for that??) and its also been the cause of many inocent people losing their lives due to these ghetto pieces of shit that influnce the youth of today. It's a damn sad shame when back in my youth days it was "cool" to have long hair, play guitar and be inspired to make something outta your life as influnce from all the music. Even the early rap inplyed "stay in school". Now, its real fuckin sad, its cool to be poor ghetto trash and live in the slums and kill people and sell drugs, etc.. Example, my ex-wife's son didnt like the fact that I had us living in a clean, non violent safe for the most part inviornment cause he wanted to be a "G" and a "playa" in "da ghetto" cause of the trash music he listened to. Thats an example of what this shit does to people. So, Marky, why isnt there a backlash on rap and hip hop?? Cause unfortunatly, this world is going to hell and violence and pure evil is all that 80% of todays youth wants and will see. And I blame this damn rap crap as playing a huuuuuge part in it :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Sorry if i kinda went off on a spree on that but rap music just makes me fuckin sick and I hate everything it stands for!!! Now...deep breath..in, out..ahhhhhh, now let me go listen to Bobby's Giorgio And Beyond and here some true peaceful music lol.

DJ Jimmy M

[Nano]

Originally Posted by DJ Jimmy M

It makes me fucking sick that rap/hip hop is now the music loved by about 70% of the USA (dunno what the rest of the world is like for that??)...

In South America, where English is not our natural language, most people get bored with rap/hip hop because they don't understand what they're saying and the music, many times, sounds monotonous. Most black hip hop artists don't get attention (except maybe for Cypress Hill and their defense of marijuana). But Eminem is hugely played on corporate FM radio and the music cable channels, because the label thinks it can sell here (and it did, briefly, with the "Stan" video). Anyway, nobody pays attention to the lyrics.

Originally Posted by DJ Jimmy M

So, Marky, why isnt there a backlash on rap and hip hop?? Cause unfortunatly, this world is going to hell and violence and pure evil is all that 80% of todays youth wants and will see. And I blame this damn rap crap as playing a huuuuuge part in it :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Jimmy, you raised an interesting argument here. Some time ago there was heavy discussion on rap and it seems here everyone hates it and I'm the only one who likes it. The thing is: does rap influence people to commit acts of violence or is it a reflex of the violent times we live today? Or maybe 50/50?
You know, the same thing is said of horror movies from time to time ("They killed a kid like in their favorite Chucky sequel!"). I'm sure movies had influenced our lives (how we kiss or light a cigarette, etc.) and still do, but in this one I'm with the people that defends the right of a piece of fiction to depict any thing -as long as it's clear it's fiction- without meaning to stand for it in real life. I know many explotation shit movies (say, Sam Peckinpah's "Straw dogs") look for safety behind this argument, and surely 2 Live Crew and others do it too, calling "censorship!" when someone accuses them. But I resist to think we people can be manipulated so easily by this popcorn shit. We still have a conscience.
But certainly you're right: "this world is going to hell and violence and pure evil is all that 80% of todays youth wants and will see". I get evidence of it all the time: the rude way school boys talk to their female friends, episodes of random violence (luckily, serial killers and random shooters are still highly uncommon here), all this tattoo/piercing fashion... It's like these kids were trying to tell you "yeah, I'm macho, I'm tough and you're not, I resist pain" which, to a certain extent, is common behavior for a teenager (to try to look smarter or tougher than he really is). But with the passing of time it seems the bets become higher and harder. Same with the music: rap/hip hop, thrash/grindcore metal, shouts, primal screams... Papa Roach, Blink 182, Creed, System of a Down, Snoop, Eminem... The point is to make us cringe, be it for the lyrics or the overall sound. Teenage angst, teenagers wanting to scare adults so they feel better than us.

Will this scale ever end? Will our grandchildren listen to an oar playing a bazooka at 500 BPM? :roll:

[DJ Jimmy M]

lmaof @ the bazooka at 500 BPM, well, in the USA i can say that the rap music is a huuuuuuge reason why bad shit is happining. And about 75% of these rappers arnt ranting about fiction, they have done the shit their screaming about and acting like its cool cause they did it and are here to rap about it. Also, what a bunch of good roll modles for kids today, Snoop, a fucking loser crack head who spent alot of time in prison. Emenem (however ya spell it), a ghetto piece of trash talkin bout killing his wife and kids, etc.., all the wars between the east cost and west cost rappers, all killing one another, fuckkkkkkkkk meeeeeeee!!!! Rap was a good thing when it started in the late 70's/early 80's cause it was just like disco, good party and feel good music with that beat. But shit, aside from the damn lyrics now being a bunch of bullshit, the music is all ripped off from the good ol days of music. For instance, lets take a moron like Sean "Puff Daddy, Diddy" (whatever the hell he calls himself) Combs, oh yea, lets take a David Bowie track and a Lisa Stansfeld track and talk shit over the Bowie track and moan the Lisa Stansfeld lyrics as well. Not only does that show non education, but also, non musical talant of any sort. And this other dumb fuck DMX, lets talk about him for a sec, what the hell is the point of that noise he always makes in his trash (i wont even call it music), ya know..that "uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", sounds like he's had major constipation and has to take a bad shit lmaof. Sorry, but all this rap today (ever since the dawn of the 90s i will say) is pure garbage and bad influence, does anyone else agree? Now right now im listening to "real" music as im typing this. The nice 52 mix excerpt of Bobby V that Steve was kind enough to put up, now this is feel good music and it dont get any better than that 5am troc feel. This is music to unite and make everyone happy, not violent and kill.

DJ Jimmy M