The Disco High Hat Pattern

[hutchcsx]

On "Disco - Spinning The Story", Earl Young says he came up with the first disco beat using the phased hi-hat pattern, on "The Love I lost". Was that really the first disco song with that sound? Since alot of people say that "The Love I Lost" was the first disco song, was it because of the hi-hat beat?
Some of my favorite songs that have heavy use of the hi-hat include:

All Night Thing - Invisible Man's Band 1979
Get Down Boy - Paper Doll 1977
Star Love - Cheryl Lynn 1978
Cocomotion - El Coco 1977
Precious Moments- Nightlife Unlimited 1979

I haven't found very many songs from 1974 or 1975 that have the hi-hat pattern.

I could't find any other posts related to this....

[Disco Funk]

Are you talking about the, what I call, the bouncing hi-hat? I think some people call it a flying hi-hat. It's what you hear at the beginning of the Love I Lost and TSOP.

There are a lot of examples of this style of playing from 74/75 and earlier. Heck, Earl used that style of playing in 72 on the Trammps' Zing Went The Strings Of My Heart. In 73, before The Love I Lost, he played it throughout the entire song of Waitin For The Rain by Fantastic Johnny C.

Other examples from 74/75 include 'The Player' by First Choice (Earl on drums); 'Salsoul Rainbow' by Salsoul Orchestra (again Earl);

Non-Earl examples are hard to come up with off the top of my head right now.

Before him, there were artists that used it in funk songs. Sly & The Family Stone's drummer Greg Errico used it on Life and Are You Ready in '68. There was a track called 'World' by The Whatnauts, which I think was from '71 or 72, and it has that same hi-hat play. But it's not a disco song.

Are You Ready (towards end of sample)

Life

World

If you listen to the bass in Life, you'll also hear some disco elements (the walking bass).

Disco Funk

[hutchcsx]

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. The bouncing hi-hat is a good name for it. I had a hard time thinking of good examples from 74/75 too.

From 1975 there's "Stoned Out Of My Mind" - Maryann Farra and Satin Soul

It seems like it started getting more popular around 76/77, and by 1979 it seems like it was a necessity in most commercial disco.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by hutchcsx

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. The bouncing hi-hat is a good name for it. I had a hard time thinking of good examples from 74/75 too.

From 1975 there's "Stoned Out Of My Mind" - Maryann Farra and Satin Soul

It seems like it started getting more popular around 76/77, and by 1979 it seems like it was a necessity in most commercial disco.

By 76 or 77 I guess the disco elements had been fully established. By then you need 'this', 'this', and 'this' for your song to be considered part of the genre. :)

I thought of a few early examples:

Satin Soul was AKA Touch. They were the group Tony Valor used on his Gotta Get It album. They also put out their own LP called Energizer, which I think was from '75. The track 'Me and You', which can be found on the TVI Records compilations, features that style of hi-hat play.

George McCrae's 'You Can Have It All' from the Rock Your Baby LP.

Tribe's 'Koke' AKA the outro to Genie Brown's 'Can't Stop Talking' from '73. Here's the audio to Koke synched up to the Campbell Lockers:

Lockers and Tribe's 'Koke'

Edit: Just thought of another few tunes, Van McCoy related:

Disco Kid by Van McCoy ('75)
Love Can Be Hazardous and I've Got Nothing But Time, both by David Ruffin ('75)

And I can't believe I forgot these two:

Never Can Say Goodbye by Gloria Gaynor ('74)
Doctors Orders by Carol Douglas ('74)

Disco Funk

[garrybcoston]

Being a musician I call it the high hat off beat because it is not on the quarter note beat (i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4 in 4/4 time), but actually an eighth note off the quarter note beat (i.e., 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 (the & would be the hit of the high hat cymbal with a rest on the beat)).

I believe you all are correct. The love I lost was the first song that I can remember that had the bouncing high hat beat as everyone calls it; but it kind of calmed down after that and when disco started to become really uptempo, it gained momentum, especially during late 1978 on until disco's death. The O'Jays came out with disco songs that had the boucing high hat and other Philly type of groups that jumped on the disco bandwagon.

I was listening to Mike Theodore Orchestra the other day, and both albums, the one in 1978 (Cosmic Wind), and 1979 (High on Mad Mountain) were almost devoid of the bouncing high hat; cosmic wind had much slower songs so you would expect no bouncing high hat (The Bull was fast but again, no bouncing high hat); but you would expect the bouncing high hat on "Mad Mountain" because the majority of disco songs during the latter part of disco's reign (Circa 1979 and later) had the bouncing high hat, (French Kiss, Simon Orchestra, USA European Connection, Peter Jacques Band, Donna Summer/Barbara Streisands Enough is Enough, etc.).

Around 1975 when "Love to Love You Baby" came out (which in my opinion was the toddler phase or growing up phase of disco), the bouncing high hat was here and there but it did not rule disco music. By late 1978 and into 1979 and a little thereafter, the bouncing high hat became a staple and firm symbol or identifier of disco music.

Garry

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by garrybcoston

Being a musician I call it the high hat off beat because it is not on the quarter note beat (i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4 in 4/4 time), but actually an eighth note off the quarter note beat (i.e., 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 (the & would be the hit of the high hat cymbal with a rest on the beat)).
Garry

Thanks for the technical description, Garry.

Here are a couple of other additions to the list:

Save Me - Silver Convention ('74)
Guilty - The First Choice ('74)
You Believed In Me - Executive Suite ('74)

I think Waitin For The Rain was the first dance/disco tune to feature a four on the floor beat with the bouncing hi-hat. It was put out in Feb 73 in it's vocal form according to the PhilLA of Soul label remix compilation. I think The Love I Lost was released late '73. Either way, it's the same drummer. The instrumental mix was released a year later under The Philly Sound. Check out the sounds samples on the Philadelphia Roots CD:

Philadelphia Roots

Disco Funk

[discorecordplayer]

hey, how would you like to find and elevator like this?
YouTube - neil strauss on the elevator picking up!=

[QUINNY]

Poor ol' Earl was wrong...oh well, we all get old and memory fades. I'm sure there were earlier examples.....if only my brain could access them!!

Although not exactly the same, rhythmically, you'll find many a Ska record had a similar feel to it. e.g Prince Buster & the Skatallites - Al Capone. Instead of hi hat you get scatting and or piano.

You can listen to it here: trevor miller

I'm gonna think hard about this topic.

[Simon White]

I've noticed how artists often think of their biggest or first hit record as their 'first' record where us, the fans want to go deeper....Ms Gaynor doesn't really mention 'She'll Be Sorry' for instance. Maybe Earl just refers to 'The Love I Lost' as the first big hit tune to carry the riff?

I would think there might possibly be even earlier examples (a drummer friend refers to the riff as 'pea soup' ) than even "Waitin' For The Rain" and "Zing !" (1972 !) though.


But whatever, the development of the Philly Sound is fascinating. Just this morning I was listening to Joe Simon's Gamble and Huff written 'Drowning In The Sea Of Love' from 1972 and thinking how much it sounded like the 1968 'What Kind Of Lady' from Dee Dee Sharp and the instrumental 'Reflections Of Yesterday' a Three Degrees 'b' side from 1970. It a very short leap to Disco from those records....

[zeca azevedo]

I can hear a "bouncing hi hat" on the chorus of SAM AND DAVE's YOU GOT ME HUMMING. Am I wrong?

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by zeca azevedo

I can hear a "bouncing hi hat" on the chorus of SAM AND DAVE's YOU GOT ME HUMMING. Am I wrong?

I just listened to a sound sample of this track, and yup, it's got the bouncing hi-hat.

I think we should still give credit to Earl Young and the philly sound for taking that style of hi-hat play, stream lining the drum groove, to create what became the archetypical disco beat.

Disco Funk

[disco1999]

I wasn't too sure of what you guys were talking about until I looked for hi-hat in wiki, pictures are worth 1000 words.


A good example of early hi-hat would be Isaac Hayes - Theme from Shaft (in 1971)
A lot of people hated disco because they found this specific beat to be annoying and repeating.
Hi-hat made a huge return in Chicago's underground clubs past the mid 80's when classic house was created.

[paul]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Poor ol' Earl was wrong...oh well, we all get old and memory fades. I'm sure there were earlier examples.....if only my brain could access them!!

Although not exactly the same, rhythmically, you'll find many a Ska record had a similar feel to it. e.g Prince Buster & the Skatallites - Al Capone. Instead of hi hat you get scatting and or piano.

You can listen to it here: trevor miller

I'm gonna think hard about this topic.

I'm impressed Quinny. You are right about Ska, and that was mid '60s. I'm even more impressed that you would know Prince Buster. He had a song called Wreck A Pum-Pum that if I remember was banned in Jamaica.

[Simon White]

Prince Buster had a UK top twenty pop hit in 1967 and his influence and the influence of Ska on British Pop music, culture and fashion goes way beyond that.

As for Ska and the Hi Hat......well kind of yes, but not really with a disco feel !

[QUINNY]

Paul: Ska music was a dance staple in the UK in the mid '60s, (read: it was music played in discos over here) as well as Blue Beat and Rock Steady (a little later). However, I for one, don't know where one genre begins and the other stops. It was revived in the late '60s going into the '70s when the Skinhead movement came to prominence and again to a lesser extent with the whole 2 Tone entourage in the late '70s - early '80s. The UK has quite an affinity regarding Ska and its many incarnations.

Maybe a better example in Ska might have been the briliantly quirky Bonanza Ska by Carlos Malcolm (yes, it WAS a Ska version of the Bonanza theme). A much faster toon that clearly shows where the Disco pattern might have come from.

Amazon.com

I love Ska music for its fun, musicianship and dance vibe...always have since I first heard it in '65 (even though I was more into Rock then).